Opinions please - do you think the management company is breaking these specific code of ethics?

I don't see any issue here. The Board is the one that should communicate to the members that the management company has resigned.

As for violating #3 there is not enough information to reach any conclusion. If the Board's expectations were too great or they were constantly interfering then the management company may have been put it a situation were they could not act in the best interest of the community.

No matter what happened you have to ask yourself if you would want the management to stay knowing that they don't want to be there? With the limited information that you have given, my guess is that the issue is with the Board. Why else would a management company be willing to voluntarily give up guaranteed income?

The bottom line is it's time to move on and not dwell on this.

As John, why would a management company want to voluntarily give up income. I would be looking at the board for answers, not just rumors.

What would you do? I assume something such as asking the Board specifically why the management resigned a second time, and tried to get the response on record? Or would you recommend a different action?

Others have said codes are ethics are nice, but don’t have the teeth of say, a contract, and while I personally like them because they can help set a standard of behavior for everyone affiliated with the organization, I also agree that they can be little more than a feel-good gesture. There are some professions and organizations where you can be censured in a big way for violating the code of ethics, and perhaps being booted out of the organization, but that’s usually the extent of what can be done.

That said, your real problem is with your board of directors, which seems to be another chapter in your posts about them. A reminder – the property manager works at the direction of the board, but sometimes, the board (or at least one or two people on it) will not shut the hell up and sit down so the property manager can do what’s in the contract. I said in a previous conversation that if the board is hell bent on doing something downright illegal or in complete opposite of the governing documents, the property manager should tell them in no uncertain terms he or she will not help them do it, and if that means he/she must resign from serving as the property manager, so be it.

Hm, I think I DID say that in one of your previous conversations...

What the property manager should have done is tell the board something like “effective X date, we are ceasing our business relationship with you. If you want to work with us on a transition plan, we will, but we strongly suggest you make an announcement to the homeowners because as of the effective date, ALL questions and requests will be referred back to you. Good luck with that.” I guess your board was too addled to do even do that much. Sometimes this sort of ultimatum shocks the board into growing up and finally beginning to behave like a group of people responsible for managing the assets of their community and focus on setting up a transition plan. Oh, well.

Maybe their unwillingness/refusal to do so forced the property manager’s hand. You said yourself two board members quit at the same time – could it be they were just as frustrated with your colleagues? Have you spoken to them – oh, wait, you NEVER speak to anyone, but come here and complain. That's fine to get it out of your system, but then what?

You know this next part – you may have a point about the property manager, but why, oh why, won’t you and your neighbors say enough is enough, sack this board like yesterday, and put in people who will act like they have a clue (and yes, that may include YOU). This is the third or so post you’ve had complaints about your board and their incompetence – yet I STILL haven’t seen any indication that you’ve tried to rally your neighbors together to get rid of them. And until you do, you'll keep posting about yet another incident, and that'll get you nowhere because the people who can really put a stop to this (you and your neighbors) don’t seem to want to pull the trigger.

Those are my opinions – accept some, none, or all of them. I don’t live in your community, so it won’t make a difference to me, but I hope you would at least care about your home and the community it sits in to make an effort. It’s not easy and it won’t happen overnight to turn things around – there are lots of conversations on this website about people who’ve gone through or going through what your community is facing. Go read a few, get some ideas and then start talking to people. It may be someone else has the energy to push forward the need for change (maybe you can start with the former board members?) If you can't/won't take the lead, at least provide support for someone who will.

Good luck to your and your neighbors – you may need it.

Management companies manage associations through the direction of a Board. The problem sometimes lies in that individuals are trying to direct how a management should operate. Our contract/agreement specifically state our contact is with the board president, no one else. The direction we are directed to take may need to be backed up in writing such as minutes of a properly noticed meeting. We have a fiduciary duty to protect the Association, not the Board of Directors.

It sounds like the association going in 5 different directions with no real leadership. It is possible some didn't want to lose any control and the MC was trying to compromise. There is just not enough information to determine exactly what is happening here.

Is this an assn. in which you own a home, Roger? I ask because at last twice, once quite recently, you asked questions here to "help" someone in an assn that you don't belong to.

Quoting the Community Associations Institute (CAI) code of ethics at https://www.caionline.org/LearningCenter/credentials/Documents/ethics_code.pdf:These rules of ethics are supposedly enforceable via hearing and more as described at https://www.caionline.org/LearningCenter/credentials/Documents/ethics_enforcement.pdf

According to Roger, some owner at some HOA is contemplating whether to report a certain CAI yada-certified management company. Said owner wisely IMO has asked what people (presumably with more professional and other experience) think before submitting a complaint to the CAI Ethics Committee.

In my opinion, the grounds for complaint as described by Roger lack reason. If the owner went forward with a complaint on these grounds, I think the complainant would look foolish.

I think resigning and/or re-negotiating is an appropriate and professional act under any number of circumstances, including those circumstances listed here.

I may be wrong, but I think Roger posted in the past about an association whose PMs kept resigning. I assume this is the same one. If that is what's going on, there is a reason for it, and it's very unlikely that the PMs are at fault.

Code of ethics or not, I think it's very common for the contract between the HOA and PM to contain a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract, with or without cause, with proper notice. A contract is not a prison sentence with no option for parole. As long as the parties abide by the notice requirement, then they are in compliance.

Rather than feeling like the PMs have all "done them wrong", the board in this case should be concerned about running out of PMs who are willing to work with them at all. This should prompt some serious reflection about what they themselves are doing wrong.

No it was self-managed from ~1980 until March 2022. Only one property management company, resigning after ~3 months then again after ~5 months. I suspect that management company will not stay for a reduced roll - it seems to be a honest, competent company that prefaced its original bid that it is selective in HOA which it contracts and is not actively looking for additional contracts. Hopefully, the rumors that it will are just wishfully thinking from the "clueless" president - if so, it would fit her trend.

Bill/other property management company owners or managers or anyone who might experience in this area,

Do you think a well-run, property management company that has been in the business for 30 years, would leave over the behavior of only one member, not board member/director, just a property owner member?

That is the excuse the board is making - the board is claiming that it is not the board bugging the property management company -it is just one member. I think that excuse is BS because I know the from experience that the board president goes on and on about any little thing with members so it is very likely she does that with the property management company. Also, I have been told be an ex-board director, who resigned a few months ago, that it is that president who constantly bugs the property management company. Also, I think that an experienced management company has likely dealt with many problematic members in many different HOAs before and would know how to handle that member without having to quit a contract.

Is that explanation - it is a single member not the Board who ran off the management company, likely? Or is the Board being the problem more likely?

Roger

Interesting question. To level set, we have been in business for 14 years with cumulative experience of 12 years as board members of associations in which we resided before that.

We have two clients at the present time who are in the 'pending termination' holding pen. One is there due to the unacceptable number of email messages sent us, 4,483 in 36 months from the Board alone, about 1,800 of which are from an owner/former board member demanding action be taken regarding other owner transgressions ranging from current issues to something which occurred ten or more years ago.

The second is there due to the actions and attitudes of an owner, I do not wish to provide more information as I do not know who may be listening, so to speak.

To answer your question: Yes, in no uncertain terms, a single person or incident can cause a contract to be terminated. We fired a client about a year ago due to the actions and statements of a single owner, who was not a Board member, over a request to deal with a tree limb which had fallen during a storm. There was no discussion with the Board, second chances, or anything else; this did not involve a physical or sexually inappropriate encounter or comment. Immediately after the incident, we terminated the contract subject to the Ts and Cs of the contract.

That's interesting.

We've had a few discussions in the past about what boards can do to rein in "rogue owners". In the second situation, did the board actually try to stop the owner (eg. cease-and-desist letter from the association lawyer)? What *can* a board do with an owner who just won't stop? Fine the owner to the point where the association can foreclose? (Which of course won't work in states that don't allow foreclosure for fines, and may not work in other states since a judge may well regard this as abusive board behavior.) Does the whole community have to pay the price for this? It sounds like the answer, possibly, is yes - especially if there aren't many management companies in their area to choose from.

Not that I blame you, nobody should have to tolerate abuse from the client.

I've stated in the past that my main complaint with community associations is that I'm forced into a business relationship with strangers. Most of the time nothing too terrible will happen, but this illustrates what can happen when things do go wrong.

I have power-of-attorney for a property owner, so I can legally speak to the Board/Association on matters, but I am not legally eligible to be on the Board - a director has to be a member under the CCRs. I doubt I would anyway because it would be a waste of time as I would not last as I would call out money/time wasting and would not let it rest if I saw the Board doing it and I doubt a body of people would want me on it in that capacity.

And there you have the real issue. I think too many owners just want the bills paid and the grass cut, and don't make them think about any of the rest of it.