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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Thoughts?

I would think not but supposedly our Board is being told by attorneys that the Board can show members how other members voted.

Based on the law I question that:

Sec. 209.00594. TABULATION OF AND ACCESS TO BALLOTS. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter or any other law, a person who is a candidate in a property owners' association election or who is otherwise the subject of an association vote, or a person related to that person within the third degree by consanguinity or affinity, as determined under Chapter 573, Government Code, may not tabulate or otherwise be given access to the ballots cast in that election or vote except as provided by this section.

(b) A person other than a person described by Subsection (a) may tabulate votes in an association election or vote.

(b-1) A person who tabulates votes under Subsection (b) or who performs a recount under Section 209.0057(c) may not disclose to any other person how an individual voted.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter or any other law, only a person who tabulates votes under Subsection (b) or who performs a recount under Section 209.0057(c) may be given access to the ballots cast in the election or vote.

(d) This section may not be construed to affect a person's obligation to comply with a court order for the release of ballots or other voting records.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Note, it is in regards to how members voted for approving a variance for a property owner's home construction.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
First of all, why would all the homeowners be voting on this - don't your documents give that authority to the board? Did you read them?

Next this section appears to apply to the people counting the votes, so if that's the board, I would argue they're not supposed to disclose how someone votes- they're usually supposed to be secret. It shouldn't matter what they're voting for.

As a practical matter, let's assume you could find out how the neighbors voted. If you're unhappy at the results, what are you going to do, confront everyone who voted the other way? That won't change anything, but it miresult in you being cussed out or worse.

You appear to be assuming the association attorney told the board disclosure was OK, but have you ASKED them directly? Did the board publish a list of everyone who voted and how, or was it just the people who cast a vote? Were those people eligible to cast a vote based on your documents (e.g. current in all assessments? ) are the totals weird, such as 100 ballots were turned in, but the vote totaled 25.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 09/24/2022 5:27 PM
First of all, why would all the homeowners be voting on this - don't your documents give that authority to the board? Did you read them?
Ditto.

Else to answer Roger's question about access to ballots: I reviewed TPC 209, including the section Roger cited. I do not see these attorney's reasoning. My best guess is the attorneys are assuming a section of the Bylaws overrides TPC 209 on this matter. E.g. a bylaw on access to records.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Roger, what DO you bylaws say, if anything on this topic? with Shelia & Aug, why do owners vote on this????
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/24/2022 7:21 PM
So, Roger, what DO you bylaws say, if anything on this topic? with Shelia & Aug, why do owners vote on this????

Nothing in regards to disclosing votes.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Even if state law and governing docs are silent on this and the board *could* lawfully disclose this information, that doesn't mean it's a good idea or that the board has to go along with it.

Seems like it would have a chilling effect on people's willingness to participate in the future, in addition to setting the stage for disagreements among homeowners right now.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I think this question gets at discussions we've had in the past - ie. do you interpret the law permissively (if it's not forbidden, you can do it) or restrictively (if it doesn't say you can, then you can't).

As noted, I interpret most things pragmatically (is this a good idea even if I'm allowed to do it).
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 09/25/2022 5:32 AM
I think this question gets at discussions we've had in the past - ie. do you interpret the law permissively (if it's not forbidden, you can do it) or restrictively (if it doesn't say you can, then you can't).

As noted, I interpret most things pragmatically (is this a good idea even if I'm allowed to do it).

I am in complete agreement with you. I am not an attorney but on mundane matters, like HOA related laws, I find the law is easy to follow and it tends to make common-sense - i.e. legislatures seem to make laws that work as one would intend an HOA to work. I assume that is the case because there are not a lot of special interest involved in HOA law I would assume, so the law is pretty straightforward.

Added note, I do not even know what the issue is, our who, Board or an individual member, is arguing what. Someone, who knows I post on this forum, asked that I ask what I did in this thread. At first I resisted, as I would think votes cannot be disclosed and whether they can or cannot is moot because the Board will do what it wants to do and no one would bring suit so what the Board decides is what would be done whether right or wrong.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 09/25/2022 5:32 AM
I think this question gets at discussions we've had in the past - ie. do you interpret the law permissively (if it's not forbidden, you can do it) or restrictively (if it doesn't say you can, then you can't).
I have the impression the long-time posters here are in agreement that it's the latter. Meaning: If the governing documents and state law do not say a board has xyz power, then the board does not have xyz power. Also a board cannot create rules and regulations that go outside the four corners of the covenants and bylaws, on account of the case law's "free enjoyment of property" yada rule.

E.g. The bylaws and state law are silent about notarization of proxy forms. Can a board lawfully require notarization? No.

The CC&Rs and state law are silent about farm animals on lots. Can a board lawfully prohibit cows? No.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Instead of checking in the legalese around voting, I'd check for sections that define "association records" and which ones homeowners may view. If ballots are listed, then the board has to let people see them - if not, then homeowners really don't have a valid argument for allowing it.

If I were on the board, I'd alsonask the attorney to cite chapter and verse in his explanation of his answer. "It doesn't say anywhere that they can't" isn't persuasive to me.

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