Street light replacement - reserve item?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Our streetlights were paid for by the developer when they were installed 15 years ago, to the tune of $75,000. I finally found the information that talks about maintenance of them. It sounds like maintenance of the lights (bulb replacement mainly) is covered under the maintenance fee that we pay the power company. We pay $1200 a year toward maintenance of the light poles.

I'm strongly thinking that the wholesale replacement of street lights when the poles, shrouds, etc, are at end of life will not be covered by the utility company. Thus, I'm thinking that we need a reserve item to cover the eventual replacement of lights. They are 15 years old and certainly will need to be replaced within the next 30 years.

This will be a major hit to our reserve study - $75,000 back in 2006 is probably more like $150,000 today and this will be the largest line item in our reserve study.

Thoughts? Experiences?

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Does your reserve study call for replacing the poles themselves? That may be a 30 year item. Replacing the bulbs with a power saving bulb could be a reserve study item because it could be a periodic maintenance item.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

The $75,000 in 2006 probably included installation which involved connections to the power distribution system, conduit, witing, concrete mounting pads, etc.

Some of those expenses will not be incurred again when the poles are replaced. I suggest you have someone with knowledge of future replacement costs provide guidance.

Also, in our area, the power co-op paints the street light poles. I recommend you investigate the situation in your area as regular maintenance will significantly extend life expectancy.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

We had all our streetlights replaced a few years ago and some additional one's added recently. Our utility has a leasing program that only charges for a certain number of years and adds it to the monthly billing. I think we paid $50 a month for the additional one's we added. They also provide the maintenance and replacement of bulbs and damaged hoods.

May want to inquire if your utility company has a similar program.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Here's an idea.
Contact the power company and find out what the maintenance fee covers before making a mountain out of nothing.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

I have contacted the power company. No response yet. They seem a little clueless about how the street lights contract works. I'm hoping they can shed the light, but I've read the contract thoroughly and am pretty sure that I'm reading it correct (replacement of poles is association expense).

If true we have a real problem on our hands. We should have been funding the eventual replacement for 15 years and haven't been. If we don't fix that now, we'll need to do a special assessment in the future to cover the replacement of them when the time comes.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

There is no reasonable expectation that your HOA will replace all the light poles at one time. A 100% demand to replace every pole on a schedule isn't applicable in my opinion. However, call the power company....they aren't clueless about pole-mounted lighting.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 09/24/2022 4:56 PM
There is no reasonable expectation that your HOA will replace all the light poles at one time. A 100% demand to replace every pole on a schedule isn't applicable in my opinion. However, call the power company....they aren't clueless about pole-mounted lighting.

Why not? The poles are fiberglass and painted, but the paint is flaking off and faded. The shrouds are getting damaged. I would expect the fiberglass to degrade at a similar rate for all poles and thus we would replace all 27 street lights as a set when the time comes.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Are the poles wooden or break away metal?

Expected life spans for wooden poles are 45 - 50 years. However, some have lasted 85 years or more.

See:

5 cool facts about the utility poles across the U.S.

Estimated Service Life of Wood Utility Poles From Oregon State University

Wood Poles: How Long Do They Last from the wood pole newsletter

If they break, as designed, in an accident - the individuals insurance should pay to replace.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Breakaway fiberglass.

I have no idea how long fiberglass lasts, but like i mentioned, they need new paint and some of the fiberglass topcoating is flaking off so they won't last forever.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I see we crossed posts (mine delayed while looking up references).

Fiberglass poles appear to have a lifespan of 15 - 20 years.

See:

Fiberglass and Aluminum Light Poles: Which is Your Best Option? from a contractor website

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Just did a Google search. One website says:

" Fiberglass light poles are competitively priced with an average lifespan of between 15 and 20 years."

That makes sense - I think ours are due for replacement. The power company balked at repainting them at my request, we'll see if they are willing to replace them at their expense. I am sure that is a definite "no".

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

See:

How Much Do Street Light Poles Cost?

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/24/2022 5:09 PM

Posted By KellyM3 on 09/24/2022 4:56 PM
There is no reasonable expectation that your HOA will replace all the light poles at one time. A 100% demand to replace every pole on a schedule isn't applicable in my opinion. However, call the power company....they aren't clueless about pole-mounted lighting.

Why not? The poles are fiberglass and painted, but the paint is flaking off and faded. The shrouds are getting damaged. I would expect the fiberglass to degrade at a similar rate for all poles and thus we would replace all 27 street lights as a set when the time comes.

I'm not sure how to answer this. Your board can certainly replace 27 poles at one time if it has the reserves. Common sense suggests the worst poles are replaced first over a period of time, which balances "cash in/cash out" issues with the HOA budget or Reserve Fund.

But, if you're using the notion that the HOA must replace all these non-mechanical or inanimate poles at once as a reason to proclaim severe budgetary underfunding, that's theorizing over practicality.

In my community, there's a small "rub" from a couple of homeowners as to why we don't simply replace .62 miles of asphalt pathway because it's cracked and buckled in multiple places and new patches make things "ugly." Even the paving company says that paving will sit there as a non-mechanical entity that can be patched and repaired when - yes - a full replacement would be nice but overly expensive for the HOA budget and dues payers' willingness to assess themselves.

You're arguing aesthetics....the flaking paint is not indicative of structural soundness. The paint is ugly. Paint it, like a fiberglass boat.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 09/25/2022 8:37 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/24/2022 5:09 PM

Posted By KellyM3 on 09/24/2022 4:56 PM
There is no reasonable expectation that your HOA will replace all the light poles at one time. A 100% demand to replace every pole on a schedule isn't applicable in my opinion. However, call the power company....they aren't clueless about pole-mounted lighting.

Why not? The poles are fiberglass and painted, but the paint is flaking off and faded. The shrouds are getting damaged. I would expect the fiberglass to degrade at a similar rate for all poles and thus we would replace all 27 street lights as a set when the time comes.

I'm not sure how to answer this. Your board can certainly replace 27 poles at one time if it has the reserves. Common sense suggests the worst poles are replaced first over a period of time, which balances "cash in/cash out" issues with the HOA budget or Reserve Fund.

But, if you're using the notion that the HOA must replace all these non-mechanical or inanimate poles at once as a reason to proclaim severe budgetary underfunding, that's theorizing over practicality.

In my community, there's a small "rub" from a couple of homeowners as to why we don't simply replace .62 miles of asphalt pathway because it's cracked and buckled in multiple places and new patches make things "ugly." Even the paving company says that paving will sit there as a non-mechanical entity that can be patched and repaired when - yes - a full replacement would be nice but overly expensive for the HOA budget and dues payers' willingness to assess themselves.

You're arguing aesthetics....the flaking paint is not indicative of structural soundness. The paint is ugly. Paint it, like a fiberglass boat.

Kelly, all I'm asking is if street lights should be a reserve item. It's a black and white question. It's fine if you do not know.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Michael,

It's a board decision to make it a reserve item or not.

It doesn't matter what we think - it's your boards call.

Take what you know and bring it to the board for a vote.

LisaB21 (Texas)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Repair or replacement of infrastructure is a reserve item in my opinion not operational expense.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

There's a 4-part test whether a component should be a reserve item. #1: it's a common area component for which the HOA is obligated to repair/replace.
You need to learn, Michael, whether the street lamp poles are HOA common are, Utility Co. responsibility, or combo of both, which is entirely possible.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/24/2022 3:07 PM
I have contacted the power company. No response yet. They seem a little clueless about how the street lights contract works. I'm hoping they can shed the light, but I've read the contract thoroughly and am pretty sure that I'm reading it correct (replacement of poles is association expense).

If true we have a real problem on our hands. We should have been funding the eventual replacement for 15 years and haven't been. If we don't fix that now, we'll need to do a special assessment in the future to cover the replacement of them when the time comes.

Or you can just do routine maintenance so they last twice as long. Painting them every 5 years is a lot cheaper than replacing them.

vis ta vie

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 09/27/2022 3:56 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/24/2022 3:07 PM
I have contacted the power company. No response yet. They seem a little clueless about how the street lights contract works. I'm hoping they can shed the light, but I've read the contract thoroughly and am pretty sure that I'm reading it correct (replacement of poles is association expense).

If true we have a real problem on our hands. We should have been funding the eventual replacement for 15 years and haven't been. If we don't fix that now, we'll need to do a special assessment in the future to cover the replacement of them when the time comes.

Or you can just do routine maintenance so they last twice as long. Painting them every 5 years is a lot cheaper than replacing them.

Wendy,

We do not own the lights. They are owned by the power company. Thus, we cannot paint them.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

You would be painting the pole which, per your interpretation of the contract, is the responsibility of the HOA (not the light or power lines within the pole.

A serious conversation with the power company (and may require a sit down vs a phone conversation) is needed.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/27/2022 10:03 AM
You would be painting the pole which, per your interpretation of the contract, is the responsibility of the HOA (not the light or power lines within the pole.

A serious conversation with the power company (and may require a sit down vs a phone conversation) is needed.

They own the pole as well.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Look, MichaelT, can you not simply find out from the utility company what their resolubility & obligations are re: these poles????

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/27/2022 10:37 AM

Posted By TimB4 on 09/27/2022 10:03 AM
You would be painting the pole which, per your interpretation of the contract, is the responsibility of the HOA (not the light or power lines within the pole.

A serious conversation with the power company (and may require a sit down vs a phone conversation) is needed.

They own the pole as well.

.
Awesome

Then they pay when it breaks right?

vis ta vie

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

Yes it is.