Delinquent owners and HOA funded trash collection

How does your Board handle this? I know there are laws that govern this and the covenants should be a guide. Our covenants don't speak to this, as this is something some Board members want to explore. Does your association just continue to pay for trash service for delinquent owners, business as usual, and jut proceed with normal collection activity? Or are they exempted from trash collection until they are current. The latter was suggested by a Board member, and I vehemently disagree with that. But, does anyone do that or anything else out of the norm in this situation?

We do not do HOA funded trash collection. However, we do not try to revoke services to delinquent owners. It's just not purposeful. We go after them through legal collections rather than trying to take away HOA provided services.

Anna

Where does your board member suggest the delinquent owner place the trash if collection is suspended? In the driveway? On the porch? Because that is where it will be left.

Suspension of services makes sense if one is speaking of access to amenities such as the pool or exercise facility; suspension of vital services such as trash collection or landscape maintenance is just plain silly and is shooting oneself in the foot.

I agree. Withholding trach pickup is undoubtedly a violation of the covenants by the board here.

The board is asking owners to comply with the covenants (like paying the assessment). The board itself needs to comply with the covenants. Or risk a counterclaim if and when the board does take collection of past assessments to court.

BillH10, they offered no solution. In our County people can dump their trash at the landfill themselves, burn their trash, or get a private trash collection company. I assume he thinks they will find a personal remedy. (I guess.) Either way, I think this solution won't work.

I think not. Before you posted the davis-stirling link, I went looking for the landlord law on terminating utilities. Exactly as the davis-stirling site says, landlord law often does apply to HOAs and COAs, insofar as the HOA or COA provides a service akin to the services a landlord provides.

Very helpful link. Thank you!

My first blush is yes the association can with hold trash collection for unpaid dues. Upon further consideration, I say for sanitary and aesthetic reasons it would be a bad decision. Kind of like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

If you're concerned about the legalities of this, you really should consult your association attorney - most of us aren't attorneys or live in your state. That said, trash pickup is considered a utility, so turning them off for non-payment of assessments isn't as simple as you think. It's one thing to deny access to amenities like a community pool, but trash pickup is vital to ensure the community doesn't have any health hazards. Besides who wants trash piling up everywhere to blow into a neighbor's yard?

If these are single-family homes, why aren't the owners responsible for trash pickup anyway - usually this is something provided by the city or county and paid for with tax revenue. I live in a townhouse community and a few years ago, the city decided to make HOAs responsible for contracting with the trash company that serviced their area - that is, the trash is picked up on the same schedule as the rest of the city, but payment goes directly to the trash company. It sounds wonky, but this is what the city fathers and mothers came up with (along with requiring the trash carts for everyone who doesn't put their trash in a dumpster).

Anyway, I understand not wanting paying homeowners to indirectly fund trash pickup for delinquent homeowners. To turn this over to homeowners, you'll need to check your documents and talk to the trash pickup company or the city/county to see if this is doable. If you can turn this responsibility over to the homeowners, that portion of the documents will have to be amended, which likely requires homeowner approval. Even then, you may need a procedure to collect the trash if the delinquent homeowner stops paying everyone - the city/county might file a lien against the house for non-payent, but someone will have to collect and pay for the pile of trash. If the HOA winds up doing it, you can add those costs to the rest of the money you're trying to collect. If you're really lucky, you'll recoup those costs.

Agree 100%. Who wins when there are months worth of trash at the curb? Realistically, most likely they will just toss their bags in one of the neighbor's cans.

We're condos, so a bit different - but we don't do anything with the utilities for our few delinquent owners. Aside from possible issues with legalities, the rest of the community would probably pay the price for this in addition to the delinquents - trash being left out to attract bugs and vermin, trash being thrown into others' trash cans, and the like.

I also don't think this would work unless individual owners had their own personal accounts with the collection company and the HOA is out of it altogether. We pay a fixed price per unit for trash collection, and we're a single account. *It would cause issues for the collection company if they were expected to skip a home here and there unless these homes were clearly identified.* I think that's beyond what we can reasonably expect from crews who are on a schedule.

Typically, the Association signed a contract for trash/recycling service.
If the Association tried to have the trash contractor skip that property, it could be considered a change in contract.
If the Association simply withheld the pay for that lot, it could be considered that the HOA failed to comply with terms of the contract.

Best option - Don't do it.

Also FWIW: water is included in our assessments. We don't reduce people's assessments if they were away for a month or didn't use their water for some reason.

The board would it have to do anything, except say “No.” The attorney would but have to get involved unless someone were silly enough to sue.

You can’t stop people from making stupid arguments, and you shouldn’t change your behavior trying to do so.

You wouldn't make a very good lawyer.

Why would the person be compensated for getting rid of their trash when the HOA was providing that service, BUT you made the decision not to pay. In essence, you are making others pay for your collection of your trash.

Now, where I used to live, if your didn't pay your LADWP bill, you would be cut off from electric and trash. If they can do it, why can't the HOA.

Actually, based on the history of how CCRs were put into place for individual HOA's, not, I don't think they are worth the paper they are written on.

Unlike some board members and most owners, I have to read all the governing documents for every association I have ever been involved in. Every rule that a Board wants enforced is put into a compliance module of our software. Delinquency process also has to be inputted into a delinquency module with all the process steps. All maintenance items are put into a spreadsheet identifying whose is responsible, HOA or Owner. So far the count is at 182 associations and counting.

So I kinda know what value I place on each of them. Out of the 182, I would say 3 or 4 were actually worth the paper they were written on.

Let me check with the trash company ............................................................ They said NO.

To me this is no different than lawn care. Our HOA takes care of everyone’s lawns, and the cost is even itemized on their monthly bill. If someone has left hoses or dog poop all over their yard, the landscapers will skip it, but they are not entitled to a refund. Nor can they “opt out” of lawn care entirely and get a discount on their HOA fees.

Regardless of the legality of shutting off utilities, the practicalities don't work.

As Tim pointed out, these contracts with providers can't be re-negotiated on the fly. And even if they could be, the cost of doing so could easily exceed any money that was saved by shutting off service.

So good ol' Joe had his water or trash service shut off, and he brings a check to the PM's office that pays the association in full. Does he get his water turned on immediately? No, he does not. It takes time for vendors to respond to the change no matter how promptly they react and for the HOA to get the plumber in. Will the HOA have to pay a service charge for this work? It sure will, especially if the work has to happen outside of normal business hours. Will the HOA have other problems? It sure will - Joe is not receiving services which he has paid for and is entitled to according to the governing docs. Joe is now in the right and the HOA is in the wrong.

None of this stuff happens in isolation. This is another situation where the costs associated with penalizing good ol' Joe (in time, money, extra work, aggravation, and ill will) can easily exceed the benefits of doing so. And the additional money being spent on this was probably not budgeted for, meaning some other scheduled spending can't happen.

Melissa is correct that late fees, liens, collections and foreclosure are the proper remedies for situations like this. These remedies are clearly legal as well as financially prudent.