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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
We had a resignation on our Board and the remaining Board members have the opportunity to vote a homeowner on to the Board.

I'm trying to envision the conversation. Initially, I think it would make sense to ask the remaining Board members if they had any names that they'd like to see considered, and then Board members could go ask these homeowners if they are interested. If a couple of people are interested, we might discuss the merits and pro/cons based on what we know about the homeowners to decide if they should be on.

I think that by law this is an open session topic, but I am very uncomfortable leading a discussion about homeowners and our take on how they may or may not make a great board member in open session, especially since we have random homeowners present at every meeting. It seems like discussing the pros/cons of non-Board homeowners in front of other homeowners would be a faux pas.

Wondering how other Boards handle this? I definitely want to follow the law, but also want to respect the privacy of folks that are not currently on the Board.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
The OP is in Washington. The Washington HOA statute says:

"Upon the affirmative vote in open meeting to assemble in closed session, the board of directors may convene in closed executive session to consider personnel matters; ... "

In order for the directors to speak freely about whom they consider qualified for the job, I say this is a personnel matter.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
This is an open session discussion. If you can't lead, why are you still the president?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If the law says you must discuss this in a open meeting, then so you must MichaelT. However much you may wish it, directors are not "personnel" in CA and I'm sure not in WA either. I agree it's awkward. But I think you've written the you generally have 0-1 owners attend your board meetings.

When is your annual meeting?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When I was on the board, I recall us having a conversation like this one time or two - it wasn't a huge issue because we were the only ones there (which happened most of the time), and no one said things like "I would hate for so and so to be on the board because he's lazy". I do agree with Max that there are times when you have to have uncomfortable conversations in open board meetings - better to have them there, as opposed to the rumor mill cranking up. That said, I don't think this would be a problem here, provided everyone focuses on what makes a good board member as opposed to personalities.

Why not ask your colleagues to think about people who would be a good fit? If they know someone, they can talk to that homeowner about the position and invite them to the next board meeting to discuss what's required, their backgrounds, why they'd like to serve, etc. The conversation may prompt some folks to drop out and whoever the board feels comfortable with after that could be appointed. Take a vote to make the appointment official as of the next meeting date - and in the meantime, someone (preferably the person who did the referral) should orientate the new board member so he/she will know what to expect. If you'd rather take the vote in executive session, go ahead and do that.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Maybe you can call a special election if your bylaws allow it

You give up control. But you won't have to discuss it in an open meeting

vis ta vie
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 09/13/2022 6:55 AM
The OP is in Washington. The Washington HOA statute says:

"Upon the affirmative vote in open meeting to assemble in closed session, the board of directors may convene in closed executive session to consider personnel matters; ... "

In order for the directors to speak freely about whom they consider qualified for the job, I say this is a personnel matter.

It's simply my opinion, but I'm with AugustinD on this: discuss during closed executive session at an open meeting. I can easily see this kind of discussion surfacing private / personal information that could be problematic in front of an audience. For instance, in Texas a Board member can be dismissed if they've committed any "crimes of moral turpitude"{1} in the past 20 years. Even if technically the law was on my side, this isn't something I'd discuss at a public session. It might not be a "personnel" issue, but I thought executive sessions were also for "sensitive or private information"?

BillD

{1} https://versustexas.com/blog/crimes-of-moral-turpitude-texas/

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/13/2022 9:44 AM
However much you may wish it, directors are not "personnel" in CA and I'm sure not in WA either.
The law firm that runs the California Davis-Stirling site says officers and directors are not personnel. However I see no citation to statute for this claim. I doubt the Washington statutes say anything about what "personnel" is.

I remain concerned that, to name two risks, privacy issues and defamation concerns may arise when directors wish to discuss who should fill a vacant board seat.

I can see how an open meeting discussion could discourage gossip, especially if the board invites candidates to appear and take questions from the board.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
I've reached my decision. We will talk about the process of how we want to go about drumming up prospective Board members in open session. We will discuss the names, qualifications, and our knowledge of the prospective Board members in executive session.

Homeowners who are upset are welcome to file a lawsuit, but I think most courts would agree that is a reasonable decision for us to make.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/14/2022 12:12 PM
Homeowners who are upset are welcome to file a lawsuit, but I think most courts would agree that is a reasonable decision for us to make.

You are the perfect leader, NOT!
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 09/14/2022 12:28 PM
Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/14/2022 12:12 PM
Homeowners who are upset are welcome to file a lawsuit, but I think most courts would agree that is a reasonable decision for us to make.


You are the perfect leader, NOT!

You sound like a homeowner, one who doesn't have the time to be on the board or take an officer role.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You know, MichaelT? "Your decision" oppose WA statutes. You have ignored these in the past or refused to look them up.

There certainly are ways to is discuss candidates in an open session without mentioning their names, e.g, Candidate 1 & Candidate 2. Certainly your board is adult enough to avoid insults, smack-talk or defamatory remarks about any candidates. Hint: focus on the strengths and determine which ones fit the purpose of your HOA and the Board's goals.

Btw, your Board may vote by secret ballot if it wishes. I actually like Wendy's idea to have owners vote if your bylaws permit it and they probably do.

Our very experienced HOA attorney and the very experienced COO of our large MC, along with the attorneys at Davis-Stirling.com all have opined that board member & committee member volunteers are not "personnel."
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Michael,

Actually, I served on a board, as president, as a matter of fact. I was personally attached by two management companies and two law firms, one that we mention here all the time, for 6 years, until I said enough is enough. After that, I started a HOA management company to make sure other homeowners don't get treated the same way. So far, so good.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/14/2022 1:37 PM
You know, MichaelT? "Your decision" oppose WA statutes.
That's your opinion. You also overlooked this law form commentary from Davis-Stirling.com:

While interviewing candidates may be done privately, the appointment of a director should be done in open session. Voting to fill a vacancy does not fall into any of the approved categories for executive session. The vote to fill an empty seat needs to be on the meeting's agenda.

-- From https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/F/Filling-Vacant-Seats-Appointing-Directors

Apparently even the davis-stirling law firm thinks at least some of the process should be done in executive session.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ah, good citation. Our Board has probably filled 6 vacancies over a dozen years. But we never have interviewed candidates for these vacancies. Perhaps our assn is unusual? I wonder what's typical.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Poked a little further an easily found a couple of additional HOA attorneys who state that directors/committee members are not "personnel." One was the syndicated columnist Kelly Richardson, who, imo, gives really sound advice, in a 2019 column.

My mom was a lowest level personnel clerk who rose to become a personnel manager of a sizable firm around the time the title change to human resources manager, so I've always been interested in the word & profession.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/14/2022 12:12 PM
I've reached my decision. We will talk about the process of how we want to go about drumming up prospective Board members in open session. We will discuss the names, qualifications, and our knowledge of the prospective Board members in executive session..

Obviously, you can certainly do as you desire.

In my opinion, choosing to ignore applicable statutes or governing documents (regardless of the reason) indicates a bad board that may have issues in the future (if they don't already do). Based on posted comments, I believe many on this site would agree.

However, as I posted, the choice is yours and your boards to make.

Your decision is made - so there is no need to keep kicking a dead horse.

I do have one suggestion - some may not recall what State the HOA you are asking about is in. If, in the future, you could provide that in your questions, it can help to receive more applicable advice/opinions (as some may look up the statutes for the correct State) and help those who simply might browse the threads who may take action based on incorrect info (thinking it's for the State you have listed with your name, vs. the one the HOA is in).

I wish you luck.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/14/2022 12:12 PM
I've reached my decision. We will talk about the process of how we want to go about drumming up prospective Board members in open session. We will discuss the names, qualifications, and our knowledge of the prospective Board members in executive session.

Homeowners who are upset are welcome to file a lawsuit, but I think most courts would agree that is a reasonable decision for us to make.

As usual, you're overthinking this. You have a vacancy- did you even consider asking the now former board member if he ir she knew of someone who might be interested in the job? We don't always say this on this website, but if people find they must resign for whatever reason, perhaps they should be strongly encouraged to help with recruiting a replacement. This assumes the board member is leaving on good terms - tge recruiting may or may not work, but at least the effort
to find someone was made as not to leave the board in the lurch.

Or....post something on the community website or newsletter (both if you have them.) You already know the board will ultimately decide who will be appointed - if homeowners know that, some may be inclined to skip it. You're always talking about apathy in your community anyway, so you may wind up with one person. You'll find out soon enough if the person is a good fit (whatever that means).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/14/2022 7:03 PM
I do have one suggestion - some may not recall what State the HOA you are asking about is in. If, in the future, you could provide that in your questions, it can help to receive more applicable advice/opinions (as some may look up the statutes for the correct State) and help those who simply might browse the threads who may take action based on incorrect info (thinking it's for the State you have listed with your name, vs. the one the HOA is in).

Michael's neighborhood landed near Roswell, New Mexico sometime in the 1970s. They've since managed to repair their antigravity drive and have resided in several states - Oregon, others? And Rhode Island is the latest. I'm guessing they'll pass on Texas - many people here have 'issues' with, well ...

I thought everyone knew this?

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 09/15/2022 2:03 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 09/14/2022 7:03 PM
I do have one suggestion - some may not recall what State the HOA you are asking about is in. If, in the future, you could provide that in your questions, it can help to receive more applicable advice/opinions (as some may look up the statutes for the correct State) and help those who simply might browse the threads who may take action based on incorrect info (thinking it's for the State you have listed with your name, vs. the one the HOA is in).


Michael's neighborhood landed near Roswell, New Mexico sometime in the 1970s. They've since managed to repair their antigravity drive and have resided in several states - Oregon, others? And Rhode Island is the latest. I'm guessing they'll pass on Texas - many people here have 'issues' with, well ...

I thought everyone knew this?

BillD

It's not uncommon for high level CEO's of gigantic corporations like Michael's to withhold the state they live in for security reasons. Millions of people troll this site looking for HOA CEO's to kidnap and ransom.

Also if he doesn't giveaway what state he is in no one can show him the state regulations that he is breaking and he can always play dumb.

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