Running for Board from floor of Annual Meeting - Good stategy or conflct?

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

A situation is unfolding that has many in our association up in arms and crying fowl, so wanted to get some expert opinons.

We have an upcoming Boatrd of Directors election in which 3 owners in our association have declared that they are running for the 3 open Board seats. All 3 of these candidates declared they were running before the required deadline. Two of these candidates are current Board members sitting on a 5 member Board. This isn't part of the issue, but just providing the facts.

Now to the issue. This certainly has the appearance of conflict and perhaps an abuse of power or maybe just good strategy.

The Association Secretary, who is also the Election supervisor who just picked the team of vote counters decided to declare 1 week prior to the meeting that she is running from the floor of the meeting. I understand that everyone is a volunteer, but this certainly has at the very least an appearance of conflict. Full disclosure, I am 1 of the 3 Board candidates that originally declared that I was running for the Board and this move seems like a ploy to prevent me from winning. I say this because of a few other events that I will leave out as not to muddy the waters.

Questions

Should the Secretary have recused herself from being the Election commissioner due to the appearance of a conflict? She personally selected the entire election team of vote counters, then she declared she is running.

Is there a proper process for running from the floor? I assume if you remove the above appearance of a conflct that she would be allowed to campaign prior to running from the floor of the meeting.

As always, thanks for any replies, this is a great resource for us novices.
John

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

This is for a New Hampshire Condo, right?

I think secretary's behavior is unethical, but this does not have any legal clout, unless your Bylaws or state statute say something about conflict of interest.

Else I agree the signs are that something is rotten in Denmark here. Big time.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

The NH Condo Act refers to conflicts of interest at 356-B:40 I, directing the reader to those conflicts prohibited under the NH nonprofit corporation statute, RSA 292. But RSA 292's sole reference to conflicts of interest is for charitable nonprofits (prohibiting family members from serving simultaneously on boards). I conclude New Hampshire statutes offer no guidance on this issue. This leaves the bylaws.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

With regards to vote counters: I would agree that in power of supervising elections or selecting vote counters should not be candidates themselves, in a contested election.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

What's the issue, board select inspector of elections (vote counters) all the time!

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Yes, anyone who is planning to run for a seat on the board should not have anything to do with with the election. For instance, we have a nominating committee that usually is made up of board members plus homeowners as needed - if one of the board members is planning to run for re-election, they remove themselves from the nominating committee.

This doesn't just apply to board members - individual homeowners who are running for a position also have to keep their hands off the actual process.

Definitely not a good strategy in my book, unless a person wants to taint the election and get a bad reputation.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/13/2022 8:26 AM
Yes, anyone who is planning to run for a seat on the board should not have anything to do with with the election. For instance, we have a nominating committee that usually is made up of board members plus homeowners as needed - if one of the board members is planning to run for re-election, they remove themselves from the nominating committee.

This doesn't just apply to board members - individual homeowners who are running for a position also have to keep their hands off the actual process.

Definitely not a good strategy in my book, unless a person wants to taint the election and get a bad reputation.

So, who appoints the inspector(s) of elections? Who exactly has their hands on the election process? It's sure not the homeowners.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Also, FWIW, our annual meetings are usually run by a neutral third party such as our PM or our attorney if he/she is present. The current board members give reports and answer questions, but other than that they are acting in their roles as homeowners and have no special authority. Election inspectors are selected from volunteer homeowners at the annual meeting.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/13/2022 8:31 AM

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/13/2022 8:26 AM
Yes, anyone who is planning to run for a seat on the board should not have anything to do with with the election. For instance, we have a nominating committee that usually is made up of board members plus homeowners as needed - if one of the board members is planning to run for re-election, they remove themselves from the nominating committee.

This doesn't just apply to board members - individual homeowners who are running for a position also have to keep their hands off the actual process.

Definitely not a good strategy in my book, unless a person wants to taint the election and get a bad reputation.

So, who appoints the inspector(s) of elections? Who exactly has their hands on the election process? It's sure not the homeowners.

The person who is conducting the meeting, and we have multiple inspectors who may not be spouses or co-owners of one unit. If the attorney is present, he'll conduct the election. We also use paper ballots that are available for inspection by anyone who asks.

Can someone game the system? Sure, but they'd have to work at it. The PM may have opinions about homeowners, or may arrange ahead of time for preferred volunteers. I also assume that our attorneys aren't up to no good.

My community doesn't have problems with people trying to steal elections. We have problems begging and pleading and twisting arms to get people to volunteer, and sometimes the meeting ends with a vacant board position. We have an open position right now. People have to understand their community's dynamics. Certain behaviors that are red flags and screeching sirens in one community may mean nothing at another.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Then the OP's question is mute?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

John from MA/NH

I say it is improper for anyone running for election to be any part of the election process, especially the vote counting. The BOD should remove the person from the process now.

As far as nominations from the floor the catch is making up a ballot. When election time comes around at our Annual Meeting, the Election Manager (our MC Rep.) asks one final time, are there any more nominations? Regardless of what happens, he then announces that nominations are closed and a vote will be held. He asks the BOD to continue with the meeting agenda while he makes ballots on the spot with a simple PC and printer. When done, the ballots are distributed and voting begins. Our MC asks for two volunteers (no one running can) to observe ballot counting.

In your case with the BOD sent Proxy, the BOD will be able to direct those proxies (votes) to who ever they want to direct them to. As such, they can pretty much control the election.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

The problem I have with this scenario is the Election Official is usually the person who gets the mailed in ballots leading up to the election. Not all votes are cast at the Annual meeting typically. Are these ballots unopened till the actual vote count starts?

I think regardless this person should be excluded from being able to nominate from the floor. He/She has chosen to be the Election official, and that position is not eligible to be nominated. Elections are held every year and they can run the following year.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Cathy wrote:

My community doesn't have problems with people trying to steal elections. We have problems begging and pleading and twisting arms to get people to volunteer, and sometimes the meeting ends with a vacant board position. We have an open position right now.

I'll write:

Do we live in the same community? We have the same problem (not enough people wanting to volunteer). In the rare event that we have more people running for a Board position than we have spots for, a simple note to the candidates always results in one of them deciding not to run.

I'm not sure we ever have had a contested election.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

JohnC73. That just one directors picks the vote counters, is different than most states. Will this director have anything to do with collecting & storing the absentee ballots? Or supervising the tabulation? In other words, what are the duties of the "Election Commissioner?" Where are the duties of this Commissioner written? Your Bylaws? State statutes?

If she does any of the above, she should resign from her position as Election Commissioner. BUT, your current board isn't going to demand that, is it, JohnC73? So....what can/will you do about it?

I can't recall, will the HOA attorney attend the annual meeting?

Do your Bylaws permit nominations from the floor? Our restated Bylaws do not.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Thanks everyone. Catching up on the responses and will respond when I process them all.
I mistakenly thought this post was removed then went golfing.

John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 09/13/2022 6:29 AM
This is for a New Hampshire Condo, right?

I think secretary's behavior is unethical, but this does not have any legal clout, unless your Bylaws or state statute say something about conflict of interest.

Else I agree the signs are that something is rotten in Denmark here. Big time.

I agree. I'm a rookie and spending a lot of time training, but the recurring them in the education video's is to avoid the appearance of conflict. If this isn't one, then I don't know what is.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/13/2022 6:54 AM
With regards to vote counters: I would agree that in power of supervising elections or selecting vote counters should not be candidates themselves, in a contested election.

Thanks,

I agree. The Secretary has since stated that she will recuse herself from the vote counting of the BOD election, but the team she selected is still in place.

I get that this is a volunteer job and volunteers are hard to come by, but the BOD position comes with a pension, matching 401k and healthcare for life - kidding of course.

John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/13/2022 7:44 AM
What's the issue, board select inspector of elections (vote counters) all the time!

Normally we have an independent election committee that reports to the BOD, but has no BOD members. This year, for some reason, we did not have an election committee.

Thanks
John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/13/2022 8:26 AM
Yes, anyone who is planning to run for a seat on the board should not have anything to do with with the election. For instance, we have a nominating committee that usually is made up of board members plus homeowners as needed - if one of the board members is planning to run for re-election, they remove themselves from the nominating committee.

This doesn't just apply to board members - individual homeowners who are running for a position also have to keep their hands off the actual process.

Definitely not a good strategy in my book, unless a person wants to taint the election and get a bad reputation.

Thanks,

Agree. Our have dozen Facebook pages are blowing up and the association of 456 units is divided over this issue.

John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

The person who is conducting the meeting, and we have multiple inspectors who may not be spouses or co-owners of one unit. If the attorney is present, he'll conduct the election. We also use paper ballots that are available for inspection by anyone who asks.

Can someone game the system? Sure, but they'd have to work at it. The PM may have opinions about homeowners, or may arrange ahead of time for preferred volunteers. I also assume that our attorneys aren't up to no good.

My community doesn't have problems with people trying to steal elections. We have problems begging and pleading and twisting arms to get people to volunteer, and sometimes the meeting ends with a vacant board position. We have an open position right now. People have to understand their community's dynamics. Certain behaviors that are red flags and screeching sirens in one community may mean nothing at another.

Thanks!

Ballots? I envy you!

Our annual election process is a mess and I'm trying my best to fix it. We don't have ballots, have little slips of paper or essentially a yellow sticky pad of paper for each owner/voter. After each question is discussed, the voter writes his choice on a piece of paper and gives it to a vote collecter. It's crazy!

From another thread, that I don't want to rehash, the reason for not having a ballot is that CURRENTLY(until I make my motion at the meeting), articles are allowed to be changed on the floor of the annual meeting. So, they can't print a ballot as they don't know the finished article until the time of the vote at the meeting. I have a plan to address and hopefully fix this issue.

Thanks
John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 09/13/2022 8:54 AM
The problem I have with this scenario is the Election Official is usually the person who gets the mailed in ballots leading up to the election. Not all votes are cast at the Annual meeting typically. Are these ballots unopened till the actual vote count starts?

I think regardless this person should be excluded from being able to nominate from the floor. He/She has chosen to be the Election official, and that position is not eligible to be nominated. Elections are held every year and they can run the following year.

Thanks Mark.

Apparently, your association doesn't exist in the twighlight zone. Mine does. I'm trying my hardest to fix the process.

All of our votes are cast at the annual meeting, we have no other option and I've posted about some of the issues on another thread. The BOD is ignoring the law and voiding any directed proxy and we have no other method of voting. You either show up in person at the annual meeting, surrender you vote using a General proxy or abstain from voting. We have talked about this on another thread, just filling you in.

Thanks
John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 09/13/2022 8:57 AM
Cathy wrote:

My community doesn't have problems with people trying to steal elections. We have problems begging and pleading and twisting arms to get people to volunteer, and sometimes the meeting ends with a vacant board position. We have an open position right now.

I'll write:

Do we live in the same community? We have the same problem (not enough people wanting to volunteer). In the rare event that we have more people running for a Board position than we have spots for, a simple note to the candidates always results in one of them deciding not to run.

I'm not sure we ever have had a contested election.

Thanks Michael!

The BOD is pulling out all stops to prevent me from winning a seat in this Saturday's BOD election, but judging the activity on Facebook and the amount of General proxies that have been given to me I think I have a shot. I have about 50 bullet votes so far that I'm aware of.

I'm the candidate with radical Ideas that they want to stop. I want things like clean elections, Directed proxies and hopefully done the line an electronic voting "Option".

In a truely groundbreaking discovery, I introduced and electronic signature option for our petition process in the year 2022. You should have seen the uproar that caused. I'm a 35 year IT person and designed a secure process for the e-signatures and the older owners that still prefer to scribe their name on a stone slab were very mad at me - lol.

Thanks
John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 09/13/2022 9:34 AM
JohnC73. That just one directors picks the vote counters, is different than most states. Will this director have anything to do with collecting & storing the absentee ballots? Or supervising the tabulation? In other words, what are the duties of the "Election Commissioner?" Where are the duties of this Commissioner written? Your Bylaws? State statutes?

If she does any of the above, she should resign from her position as Election Commissioner. BUT, your current board isn't going to demand that, is it, JohnC73? So....what can/will you do about it?

I can't recall, will the HOA attorney attend the annual meeting?

Do your Bylaws permit nominations from the floor? Our restated Bylaws do not.

Thanks Kerry,

I'm running for the BOD and the election is Saturday. If I win, the best and cheapest way to address this is try to update our process from the BOD.

I think you know from my prior posts that out annual meeting is a mess. On floor changes without proper notice. No directed proxies allowed and absolutely no mail-in or absentee style voting. We are a vacation HOA and I personally have to make a 6 hour, 300 mile round trip to have the privalege of casting my own vote. If I or other owners don't make this trip, we are labelled lazy.

Thanks
John

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Since this appears to be a vacation resort that people may not live year round, what happens if not enough people show up to vote? Things stay the same. If that is the case, that happens in HOA's across America.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/13/2022 5:50 PM
Since this appears to be a vacation resort that people may not live year round, what happens if not enough people show up to vote? Things stay the same. If that is the case, that happens in HOA's across America.

Thanks Max,

We have 456 owners/voters. The quorum is 1/4 or 114 owners. We get close to 100 "General Proxies" and 175 in-person owners. The vote totals are between 250-320 each year, but these votes are cast by 150-200 owners.

Thanks
John

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

If you know that enough votes are going to be cast, and that there will be quorum which would allow the ballots to be opened and counted, what do you think would prevent you from getting elected?

If I knew that quorum was not going to be an issue and if I really wanted to be on the board, there would nothing to stop me from achieving that goal.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

For newer readers, what John means is that the agenda items for the annual meeting that were sent to (noticed) owners in advance of the meetings can be changed AT the meeting. John has written that attorney he saw said that's against statute. While not all are, I suggested he take a written opinion form his attorney to the annual meeting

Now, JohnC73, won't answer where the "Election Commissioner" requirements are: In his Bylaws?

It' fabulous, JohnC73 that you have 50+ proxies.

Don't NH statutes say ANY thing about official ballots (vs yellow post-its??)

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

The person who is conducting the meeting, and we have multiple inspectors who may not be spouses or co-owners of one unit. If the attorney is present, he'll conduct the election. We also use paper ballots that are available for inspection by anyone who asks.

Cathy,

Re-reading your post, something caught my attention - Inspectors.

Are you saying that you have inspectors or observers in the vote counting room watching over the process? We don't have that, most likely because nobody every thought of it.

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to request someone that supports me to be an inspector/observer?

Thanks
John

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

SWE have them too, JohnC as required by CA Law. Does NH law or your Bylaws have this.

(For heaven's sake, leave Robert's Rules ed. video alone & focus on actual governing documents & statutes)

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 09/13/2022 6:38 PM
SWE have them too, JohnC as required by CA Law. Does NH law or your Bylaws have this.

(For heaven's sake, leave Robert's Rules ed. video alone & focus on actual governing documents & statutes)

I know, I know - lol. I have been focusing on our documents and some of judging by many responses I'm getting I still have work to do. I'm trying!

I posted on Robert's rules because I had a brain fart and thought my post was deleted here.

Thanks Kerry,

You are always very helpful

John

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/13/2022 7:07 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 09/13/2022 6:38 PM
SWE have them too, JohnC as required by CA Law. Does NH law or your Bylaws have this.

(For heaven's sake, leave Robert's Rules ed. video alone & focus on actual governing documents & statutes)

I know, I know - lol. I have been focusing on our documents and some of judging by many responses I'm getting I still have work to do. I'm trying!

I posted on Robert's rules because I had a brain fart and thought my post was deleted here.

Thanks Kerry,

You are always very helpful

John

I've been watching HOA board training video's, not Robert's rules. I've only watched few short one's on Robert's rules. I'm on board with you on RONR, but I do need to know the basics.

Thanks

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Watching HOA training videos sounds like a good activity! (I wish some members or f our Board would watch some!) Pay special attention to the language of HOAs so that you can continue to grown in your use of HOA terms & words.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/13/2022 6:12 PM
If you know that enough votes are going to be cast, and that there will be quorum which would allow the ballots to be opened and counted, what do you think would prevent you from getting elected?

If I knew that quorum was not going to be an issue and if I really wanted to be on the board, there would nothing to stop me from achieving that goal.

Thanks Max,

Ballots? We have no ballots. We have essentially post it notes that you write on and then get collected and taken into a closet and counted. I am waiting for the day we have ballots and real tally sheets.

This might be a common problem in HOA's, but most simply do not care. The majority of owners are weekend warriors that come to the park from Memorial Day to Labor day, after that they go to the primary residents and forget about the park until the next year.

I'm trying hard to get elected and if things are on the level I believe I will be Saturday.
Thanks
John

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/13/2022 6:17 PM

The person who is conducting the meeting, and we have multiple inspectors who may not be spouses or co-owners of one unit. If the attorney is present, he'll conduct the election. We also use paper ballots that are available for inspection by anyone who asks.

Cathy,

Re-reading your post, something caught my attention - Inspectors.

Are you saying that you have inspectors or observers in the vote counting room watching over the process? We don't have that, most likely because nobody every thought of it.

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to request someone that supports me to be an inspector/observer?

Thanks
John

We call them inspectors, but they're actually vote counters.

All of our voting takes place at the meeting. Our proxies are general and count for quorum only - they're collected by our community manager and we know ahead of time if we'll have enough attendees to make quorum. We ask for volunteers to count the votes on the spot, require a minimum of two, and they must not be spouses or co-owners of a single unit. Each counts the paper ballots separately and results are compared to make sure they agree. If there is a discrepancy, we'd start over with new volunteers, but that has never happened since I've lived in this community.

Attendees can see that the vote counters are directed to separate spots to do their counting. Any funny business between them would have to be agreed on ahead of time, and the paper ballots themselves would provide evidence one way or the other - we can have an independent auditor come in after the fact and verify the results.

It's very low tech but it's transparent. It wouldn't work well if we had a large number of attendees, or a lot of out-of-town owners who couldn't attend the meeting, or if we had owners fighting to serve on the board - we'd have to come up with a different system that allowed everyone to vote with results tallied quickly, and that could prevent cheating. (Personal opinion: I think we should be moving toward a different system for a variety of reasons, but our board has insisted on in-person meetings throughout the pandemic, so I doubt they're persuadable unless some other owners agree with me and start lobbying.)

As to whether or not you can request something like this, you may be limited by your bylaws or state laws and by the needs of your community. Some states have spelled out election requirements. And you'd need a decent amount of lead time to get things approved and into place (ie., plan to implement at next year's annual meeting). Our system works for us, but it may not in other communities.

I also believe that elections are stolen well before the annual meeting takes place. A board that's determined to stay in power will start to make (sometimes innocent-looking) changes that will make it hard for owners to challenge what they're doing. And apathetic owners won't see the writing on the wall and will let them get away with it until it's too late.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/14/2022 6:01 AM

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/13/2022 6:17 PM

The person who is conducting the meeting, and we have multiple inspectors who may not be spouses or co-owners of one unit. If the attorney is present, he'll conduct the election. We also use paper ballots that are available for inspection by anyone who asks.

Cathy,

Re-reading your post, something caught my attention - Inspectors.

Are you saying that you have inspectors or observers in the vote counting room watching over the process? We don't have that, most likely because nobody every thought of it.

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to request someone that supports me to be an inspector/observer?

Thanks
John

We call them inspectors, but they're actually vote counters.

All of our voting takes place at the meeting. Our proxies are general and count for quorum only - they're collected by our community manager and we know ahead of time if we'll have enough attendees to make quorum. We ask for volunteers to count the votes on the spot, require a minimum of two, and they must not be spouses or co-owners of a single unit. Each counts the paper ballots separately and results are compared to make sure they agree. If there is a discrepancy, we'd start over with new volunteers, but that has never happened since I've lived in this community.

Attendees can see that the vote counters are directed to separate spots to do their counting. Any funny business between them would have to be agreed on ahead of time, and the paper ballots themselves would provide evidence one way or the other - we can have an independent auditor come in after the fact and verify the results.

It's very low tech but it's transparent. It wouldn't work well if we had a large number of attendees, or a lot of out-of-town owners who couldn't attend the meeting, or if we had owners fighting to serve on the board - we'd have to come up with a different system that allowed everyone to vote with results tallied quickly, and that could prevent cheating. (Personal opinion: I think we should be moving toward a different system for a variety of reasons, but our board has insisted on in-person meetings throughout the pandemic, so I doubt they're persuadable unless some other owners agree with me and start lobbying.)

As to whether or not you can request something like this, you may be limited by your bylaws or state laws and by the needs of your community. Some states have spelled out election requirements. And you'd need a decent amount of lead time to get things approved and into place (ie., plan to implement at next year's annual meeting). Our system works for us, but it may not in other communities.

I also believe that elections are stolen well before the annual meeting takes place. A board that's determined to stay in power will start to make (sometimes innocent-looking) changes that will make it hard for owners to challenge what they're doing. And apathetic owners won't see the writing on the wall and will let them get away with it until it's too late.

Thanks a ton Cathy!

Soon everyone is going to think I am making all of this up - lol. Trust me, I'm not. I wish I was.

The BOD and Secretary have already been working on stealing this election, but it's going to backfire. We have 3 seats up for election and because of a mid term resignation two of the seats are for 3-year terms and One of these seats is for a 1 year term.

This situation has happened 3 other times in the past 15 years and each time there was 1 BOD election where the top 2 vote getters would get the 3-year seat and the 3rd place vote getter would get the 1 year term. This year they changed that format and are conducted something akin to rank choice voting which is going to help the sitting BOD members and Secretary running for a BOD seat. The BOD and Secretary split the BOD election into 2 separate elections and candidates can declare that they are running for both, if they chose. So, we have 3 candidates vying for 3-year term seats, me and 2 non-elected sitting BOD members. I say non-elected because they were appointed by the BOD to fill 2 vacancies. Then 2 people vying for the 1-year term, the Secretary and unbeknowst to me, myself. I never stated that I was running for the 1-year seat and I wouldn't because it isn't fair to me.

So, what the BOD "thinks" will happen is that the 2 incumbents will easily beat me and then all of their supporters will then vote for the current Secretary in the run-off election between me and her. But, if I lose the 1st election then the tribe has spoken and I will bow out of the second election as I feel they are trying to embarras me. I actually feel pretty good about winning a 3-year seat.

As far as observers go, this year due to covid concerns the meeting will be outside under a tent and the vote counters with "observers" will be in our large community building. So, this year we will have observers.

Thanks
John

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I believe you. The regulars around here can confirm that we've heard some interesting stories about board shenanigans. So have lawmakers, which is why states like California have laws with specific requirements that make election shenanigans difficult to impossible.

Not to poo-poo your enthusiasm...

... but if you're elected, that's where the hard work starts. And that's best case scenario - if your fellow board members opposed your election, you'll probably find it hard to get things done your way. In my experience, it doesn't matter whether you're the community crank who just wants to fight with the other board members, or you're the lone voice of reason outnumbered by bad actors who view the CC&Rs as suggestions to be ignored. Unfortunately the crank will be having a fine ol' time, while the lone voice of reason will start to wonder if it's worth the effort. Ask me how I know these things... :-)

Anyway, if this is your first rodeo, you'll probably be spending a lot of your first year in a panic as you discover how little you know about this stuff....although it does sound like you've got a head start since you've been educating yourself. I wish more board members felt the same way.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 09/14/2022 8:36 AM
I believe you. The regulars around here can confirm that we've heard some interesting stories about board shenanigans. So have lawmakers, which is why states like California have laws with specific requirements that make election shenanigans difficult to impossible.

Not to poo-poo your enthusiasm...

... but if you're elected, that's where the hard work starts. And that's best case scenario - if your fellow board members opposed your election, you'll probably find it hard to get things done your way. In my experience, it doesn't matter whether you're the community crank who just wants to fight with the other board members, or you're the lone voice of reason outnumbered by bad actors who view the CC&Rs as suggestions to be ignored. Unfortunately the crank will be having a fine ol' time, while the lone voice of reason will start to wonder if it's worth the effort. Ask me how I know these things... :-)

Anyway, if this is your first rodeo, you'll probably be spending a lot of your first year in a panic as you discover how little you know about this stuff....although it does sound like you've got a head start since you've been educating yourself. I wish more board members felt the same way.

Thanks Cathy,

I totally understand what I'm getting myself into. I was the Association Secretary 2 years ago and it was the most miserable experience of my life. Spent hours writing minutes that nobody read as the meetings were recorded. I was also the Committee lead for our IT/Moderization committee and Winter Camping committee. I retired young and still have some of my fastball, so, wanted to end the nonsense and step up. I'm not the neighborhood crank that critizes everyone. We have neighborhood cranks, but I'm not that person.

Our park is almost equally divided like the hatfields and mccoy's. I was on one side and the new president was on the other. Silly stuff for an HOA, but it happens I guess.

True story, the current president(mccoy side) came to my site(hatfield) 3 sheets to the wind prior to last years election and told me that he would be firing if he became president. True to his word, he became president and he fired me without cause without even notifying the other BOD members. I was perfectly content in my IT committee role as I'm a 30+ year IT person and don't really want the grief of being a BOD member. They wonder why the volunteer pool has dried up. So, now the only way I can volunteer and asist my community is to run for the BOD. This wasn't my first choice, but felt I had no other option, if I wanted to be involved.

I get that I will have a big target on my back. As Secretary and Election lead, I was charged with election tampering for delivering a sealed election packet to 10 owners in the park that never received theres in the mail. This was during Covid and we actually ran an honest election mail-in election with real ballots. Now we are back to the post it note ballots.

I know some stuff, but my ego certainly isn't big enough to think I know it all. And if it was, this forum brought me back to earth. Reading the NH Condo RSA's is one thing, actually understanding all the legal language is another.

Thanks again
John

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/14/2022 9:39 AM ... as I'm a 30+ year IT person ...

To be completely honest, whenever anyone tells me they're "a __ year IT person", I interpret that to mean they're "a huge PITA". I'm not trying to be harsh. But other people may not react the way you think they'll react when they hear that.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 09/14/2022 9:53 AM

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/14/2022 9:39 AM ... as I'm a 30+ year IT person ...

To be completely honest, whenever anyone tells me they're "a __ year IT person", I interpret that to mean they're "a huge PITA". I'm not trying to be harsh. But other people may not react the way you think they'll react when they hear that.

BillD

Thanks for the compliment. You know nothing about me or my character. If you have nothing good to say, why say anything?

Are you the same person that just posted about being a sleep at the wheel? You are the treasurer and you didn't realize someone was behind in the dues until 2 years after the fact? Perhaps focus on your own job.

For the record. I volunteered to restructure the website which was a huge mess. It was a 1 page, top down design with zero organization. Me and another owner spent over 200 hours recorganizing it and create categories. If that is your definition of a pain in the ass, then I guess I'm guilty.

John

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 09/14/2022 9:53 AM

Posted By JohnC73 on 09/14/2022 9:39 AM ... as I'm a 30+ year IT person ...

To be completely honest, whenever anyone tells me they're "a __ year IT person", I interpret that to mean they're "a huge PITA". I'm not trying to be harsh. But other people may not react the way you think they'll react when they hear that.

BillD

Wow that was a random personal attack. Are you having a bad day?

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I manage HOA's for a living. I went through a similar situation in the one HOA I did live in. My wife and I will never live in another. While California has some of the most extensive HOA guidelines in the country, there is no one agency that oversees HOA's. There are over 50,000 HOA's where over 14 million live and no one watching the hen house.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/14/2022 12:40 PM
I manage HOA's for a living. I went through a similar situation in the one HOA I did live in. My wife and I will never live in another. While California has some of the most extensive HOA guidelines in the country, there is no one agency that oversees HOA's. There are over 50,000 HOA's where over 14 million live and no one watching the hen house.

Amen. Boards come and go and you never know when you will be hurt financially if a rogue Board takes over and neglects their responsibility to maintain what the HOA is responsible for.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 09/14/2022 12:40 PM
I manage HOA's for a living. I went through a similar situation in the one HOA I did live in. My wife and I will never live in another. While California has some of the most extensive HOA guidelines in the country, there is no one agency that oversees HOA's. There are over 50,000 HOA's where over 14 million live and no one watching the hen house.

Thanks,

I'm taking a shot at improving things, I may fail, who knows. As much as I hate Facebook, social media certainly helps spread the word, but I will be the target of the FB rants, if I win - lol

John