Election, not sharing the vote totals.

Hi,

I'm on the board of a HOA. We recently had a mail in election and have a couple of new board members. Our management company handled the election and only told us who the winners were until I pushed them for the actual vote counts. Their reasoning was to prevent hard feelings among members who received more/less votes. They also stated that they usually do not share them with anybody. This seems crazy and in my mind feels like it would do more to cause mis-trust. How are others handing this situation?

We haven't crossed the bridge of having a board level discussion about this yet. In our situation, the tallies were not even shared with any member of the board which means there was no oversight of the management company on this. I pushed and was able to at least get them shared with the board. Sharing it with the community is a separate discussion.

In my mind not sharing the tallies gives the appearance of shenanigans to the community. That said, I wanted to see what other communities, boards were doing to see if I'm missing something or if this is a common practice.

Check your Bylaws, Lance, which may state how the voting count is handled. If silent, check any state statutes concerning your type of association. Even corporations code may have something to say.

In CA, the vote totals of every candidate must be announced at the annual meeting. The final tally also must be placed in the next open meeting minutes, i.e Booth, 87, elected, Ng, 79, elected, Dram 74, elected, Rey, 35, not elected, Moore, 14 not elected. The total also must be either posted in a "public" place or published in the newsletter. Our HOA's Election Rules & our bylaws both require these and add that tabulation results must be emailed to all owners.

As I hope is the case in GA, any owner can review the ballots for top tp year following the election.

Yes, years ago when I first became a director I felt really badly for someone who actually received 14 votes, with the winners in the 80s. But sharing these is the law here and also helps deter Owners' mistrust of the board.

An election without a tally. How novel..........

This is a slippery slope. I say let the information (vote count) flow freely. Say in your BOD Minutes would seem appropriate.

What everyone else said. If people get salty because Mrs. X got more votes than Mrs. Z that's the nature of politics. As long as the math's correct and those who cast votes were eligible to do so and did it according to the community rules, the management company doesn't have a right to withhold that information.

Time for your board to blast the information out of your property manager - and if they do this sort of thing often, y'all may need a meeting about who's authorized to do what, since the BOARD is supposed to oversee the property manager (but not micromanage - if that becomes necessary, you may need a new manager).

Not so shameless plug - did you read my conversation on the Colorado property management company behaving badly and the state's inability (or refusal) to do something (probably because lobbyists have more money)? Do take a look.

With two candidates for two open positions there was no need for an election. They are both automatically on the BOD.

No, our CC&Rs and By-laws require an election. There is no automatically on the Board provision in our CC&Rs or by-laws. It might seem like a pointless election but it is still an election. In theory, there could be a floor nomination (write in) that garners more votes that those names published on the ballot.

Putting the vote count in the Annual Meeting Minutes means the vote count was actually announced at the Annual Meeting.

Such transparency seems to me to be what the OP seeks, anyway.

Put the tallies in both the next BOD meeting minutes and the Annual Meeting Minutes.

What in the world? Corruption? Sniveling? Disgust?

This is a wild overreaction.

What in the world?

Any less reaction to a manager who refuses to share vote totals for the annual election with the board is an under reaction.

Lance needs to tell us what his bylaws or GA statutes say. His PM might be ignorant.

What Lance wanted to know is how do others handle final vote count. I'm sure Barbara might know how it's done in Texas or at least at the HOAs she manages.

Lance, rereading your OP, is it the case there was no actual physical in person annual meeting?? Our owners vote by mail too but there still is an annual meeting, required by our bylaws and probably corporations code, when votes are tabulated by inspectors of election, and Owners must be permitted to observe the tabulations by law.

Who collects your assn ballots, Lance? Where are they stored? Who opens them? How does that person announce the winners to the Board? By email?

Kerry, the Texas property code is silent on the topic of releasing vote totals. Every management company I’ve worked for discourages releasing vote totals with the logic that it causes hurt feelings. I do think it’s silly to think that adults can’t handle knowing they only got five votes but I had one meeting where totals were stated and the guy who only got five votes stomped off in a fit and spent the next year whining about it on social media so…

When there is a contested election (which is rare) and I have the freedom (i.e.) I have a boss who doesn’t micromanage my every communication with the client, )I ask the candidates what they prefer and do that.

I’ve always done vote counting live, in person at the meeting, using two volunteers from the attendees who are not affiliated with any candidate(I usually try to find someone who just recently moved in). Candidates can observe from a distance. I serve cookies and drinks while we await the counting, it’s fun and wards off any accusations of corruption (sniveling or otherwise).

Some associations have an attorney or CPA do their tallying. Texas allows online voting so associations using that will have the tabulation done for them by the service.

I can see why candidates would want to know totals to see if there’s any point to a recount, but homeowners wanting to know totals is generally idle curiosity. But, nothing makes people desperate to know something more than not telling them. The bigger deal that js made of not releasing them just causes people to spin wild scenarios of sniveling corruption.

I’m always surprised at posts here about election drama because the overwhelming majority of elections I’ve been a part of have been uncontested so vote totals are irrelevant.

Barbara wrote: "But, nothing makes people desperate to know something more than not telling them." I so agree. Secrecy leads to mistrust, which is never good for an association or its Board. Even though we must reveal the vote count in a few ways in CA, I would still want to if not required.

IMO, the dangers of mistrust and suspicion when vote counts are hidden weighs more than the hurt feelings of one or two candidates. This would be multiplied if, say, an abusive board's buddies were said to be elected and a couple of "reformers" are said to have lost.

Neutral tabulators and observation from a distance should help, but still....In TX associations, may owners inspect the ballots after the election? In Ca, we may for a year.

In our 11/19 election, 3 members of an abusive and arrogant board were up for reelection. 3 of us "reformers" ran. The bad 3 didn't even bother campaigning. The inspector brought the tally sheet to the Board prez at the annual meeting, a pal of the 3. She read each winner's name followed by the word "elected," but no count #. She then read the 3 losers' names followed by the words "not elected." All 3 incumbents were defeated for reelection. And, yes, one of them stormed out of the room. Further business followed.

Once finished and leaving the meeting room, taped to the hallway wall we faced exiting, were the names of all the candidates and their vote count for all to read. The Inspectors obviously were annoyed the prez didn't not follow all previous meetings' practices or the law.

The year a woman rec'd only 14 votes was because she was a newer owner, really didn't know anyone, and tho' she has a strong financial back ground, she had no HOA experience. She joined the Finance Committee, made herself known, campaigned the following year, and she was elected.

To be clear, in Washington State, the vote results including which owner voted for whom, is a record of the association that must be provided to any owner upon request. We have not had people request it, but if they did, we'd have to provide it to them. There is no requirement for a secret ballot in our state and we don't spend the time to create one.

So there is no "veil of secrecy" in our state. The Board can choose to announce the vote results, or choose not to announce the vote results. Regardless of what the Board decides to do, homeowners can always request a copy of the spreadsheet showing who voted for whom, which in turn would show the totals.

Kerry, in Texas, owners may not inspect the ballots. Only the tabulators may have access to the actual ballots. Any owner can request a recount but they also have to pay for it.

Honestly, that is silly, at best.

It is inconceivable to me to even consider not publishing results of an election.

To the OP, I would make an open records request myself, then announce the totals at the next board meeting. Then I would begin discussions with your fellow board members about how outlandish it is for your vendor to refuse to provide you with your own information; and try to replace them. Management Companies controlling the board seems far too common.

My understanding of a secret ballot is that part of its purpose is to allow for ballots to be inspected without revealing the lot owner's identification. So the ballot does NOT have identifying information. It is placed inside a ballot envelope, which does have their name, signature, lot ID, etc.

So for a recount you can view each ballot and confirm the totals without seeing how each person voted.

Oh Augustin, you never disappoint. Yes, you caught me. I, a manager of single family associations in the state of Texas, referred to the Texas property code that is relevant to single family associations when replying to a question from a person in California who (I believe) is also in a single family HOA and asked, out of curiosity, if homeowners were allowed to inspect ballots.

You have revealed me to be yet another sniveling, corrupt coward.

I agree.