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SaraW4 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hi all, first time posting here. We are residents of an HOA in Virginia and are having problems with our HOA.
Background: Husband attended board meeting in July to discuss replacing an HOA playground which had failed inspection TWO years ago. At that meeting, board was undecided on what the budget was for replacing the playground and had recently acquired 4 quotes from a playground company ranging from 35k to 80k. At the meeting, the board complained of not having community feedback and agreed to my husband soliciting community feedback via Facebook.

The first time we had playground options to look at was at the July 18th board meeting.
The board weighed option 1 and 2 at the meeting and deemed option 3 and 4 too expensive.
The board wanted to finalize option 1 but I objected that it was too fast because the community had not seen the options.
The board gave me until July 29th (2 weeks before the next board meeting) to get back to them with community feedback.
Playground feedback was provided via email to HOA president and property manager by our July 29th deadline and HOA president asked me to attend the next board meeting on August 18th (which was the wrong date)
At the August 15th board meeting, the board made the decision to ignore the feedback from the community and choose the least popular playground option. Community is understandably upset.
Board member stated via text to me on Aug 17th "The board approved one of the original options after a homeowner at the meeting raised concerns that children with limited mobility couldn't use the slides due to the tunnel"
Critically, this feedback was given AFTER the July 29th deadline set by the board.
Also, I asked many times how the board wanted to receive feedback by July 29th and did not get a clear answer. I gave it via email and asked if they had what they needed. If they required attending in person they should not have set the July 29th deadline.
On August 19th I had a phone call with the board president to discuss my concerns over how the decision was made. I was told that the contract with the playground company was final.
Also on August 19th I emailed the playground company to ask if the contract was final and they said they have not received anything from their end, proving she lied.

My question is, is there any way to fight this? Should we start a petition in the neigbhorhood asking for a special meeting, in order for more people to be heard? Should we attempt to recall the president for her lying and unwillingness to listen to the community? Is there any bylaw or VA rules they broke by changing the date of the board meeting and only giving a couple days notice? I know many people without kids won't care about a playground, but it's a big deal to our family and we are eager to make sure the voices of us and many other families are heard on this issue.

Also--the President kept saying they don't have enough money, but when we reviewed the most recent financial report, they do---they are just spending extra money on a non-urgent pool project instead of a nicer playground. Is there a way we can pass a new bylaw that says they need a majority neighborhood vote if they spend more than a certain amount? Just looking for ways to get greater Board accountability here. Thank you!
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
The choice of which playground to choose was a Board decision.

If you, as a volunteer, wanted a particular playground, it would have better to present only one playground to the Board. If the Board wanted more options, you could have declined to put more time into it, and chances are, they would have approved the one that you presented because likely no one else would have put time into it either.

That is in the past. You cannot force the Board to change their mind.

You can run for a Board position and try to change future decisions.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sara

Like it on not the BOD makes the decisions, not someone tasked to gather information as you were tasked.
GuyD1 (Hawaii)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Hi> everyone here's the problem , during an executive session property management intrudes
into the meeting knowing to be excused from such ,joins in on the discussion and not allowed, but
tells an board member that doesn't attend most board meeting , and tells resident manager we are are letting him go, when it was to be a discussion so the resident manager leaves gracefully, now accuses the president and there is hostility towards him, The board didn't want this, we have 5
board members from president, vice president, secutary, treasurer, one board member,. it was decided to meet with the resident manager but before this, he resigns because of the board member who tells him from the property management and now it's a big mess. what can i do about that board member???
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Guy,

It's best to start a new thread as these are very two different topics and two different States.

You can start a new thread by clicking on the "add new topic" (small print) right above the blue bar that says topics.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
When you write your new post, Guy, please make it well organized. It's too hard to understand. Maybe give the different parties fake names + the title.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Sara,

As Michael said, the decision was the boards.
Any input from the membership were simply suggestions.

Don't fault the board for trying to include everyone. Not addressing issues that are preventing the disabled from using amenities can cause more costly issues.

HOA Statute notice requirements simply say that they have to be made. No time frame.
The Corporate statute defers to the governing documents.
Therefore, your answer will be in your governing docs.

Keep in mind that the President is not the board. They are one vote with the majority winning.
Often, because the president is the one signing papers and the contact person, they get the brunt of the blame but the blame should be shared with the entire board.

Money in the reserves are typically earmarked for specific amenities. That is to say, x amount is put away for the pool and x amount for the playground. It can seem that the Association is flush with cash, but reserve funds should be spent for the purpose they were saved for. The board can borrow from the Reserves but must have a plan on how to pay it back. This is typically done by delaying services or increased assessments.

You can certainly organize and, if the contract has not been awarded, perhaps change the boards mind. But members should contact all board members to make this happen.

You can organize and recall. However, due to gathering signatures and notice requirements of a special meeting, this may not change the playground plan or it may cause the cost to increase.

You can choose to live with the decision and let that guide your vote at the next election.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GuyD1 on 08/29/2022 2:16 PM
Hi> everyone here's the problem , during an executive session property management intrudes
into the meeting knowing to be excused from such ,joins in on the discussion and not allowed, but
tells an board member that doesn't attend most board meeting , and tells resident manager we are are letting him go, when it was to be a discussion so the resident manager leaves gracefully, now accuses the president and there is hostility towards him, The board didn't want this, we have 5
board members from president, vice president, secutary, treasurer, one board member,. it was decided to meet with the resident manager but before this, he resigns because of the board member who tells him from the property management and now it's a big mess. what can i do about that board member???

Not using periods at the end of your sentences makes this sound like a bunch of gibberish.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/29/2022 2:40 PM
Money in the reserves are typically earmarked for specific amenities. That is to say, x amount is put away for the pool and x amount for the playground. It can seem that the Association is flush with cash, but reserve funds should be spent for the purpose they were saved for.
This too is largely my focus. SaraW4, I recommend you obtain a copy of the latest reserve study. Post here the year the reserve study was done; the dollar figure assumed as the estimated cost of the replacement of the playground (equipment?); and the estimated useful life remaining in the playground at the time the reserve study was completed.

This could both illuminate why the board did what it did and also be an excellent introduction to reserve studies.

If, as you suggest, the contract has not been signed, then sure, you can raise this at another board meeting as long as the board permits you to speak (as may or may not be required in your Bylaws and state statute). But IMO, you need to go into such a meeting having some kind of handle on the reserve study and what it says about the playground.

The fact that the playground has been unavailable (due to failing inspection) is significant as well, IMO.

Lastly, I suggest treading carefully in the future when calling vendors. I realize your goal was to determine the truth. But part of the larger truth is that vendors are supposed to deal with only those legally in charge. In this case, this would be the board or possibly the HOA manager. You do not want to be seen as interfering with contractual negotiations. The President may have lied, but I do not think you have much recourse to fix this, other than, in the extreme, attempting a recall of the director who serves as president or tossing this director out in the next election.
SaraW4 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
That's really helpful, thank you for taking the time to address all my points. Can you explain more why it's significant that the playground has been unavailable/broken for the past two years? Thanks!
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SaraW4 on 08/31/2022 2:14 PM
Can you explain more why it's significant that the playground has been unavailable/broken for the past two years?
-- I should have confirmed: Is the playground currently closed, due to failing inspection? This was my assumption. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

-- Just saying: I sure would not support a HOA Board keeping a playground open that had failed inspection. This is on account of liability reasons.

-- If the HOA Declaration lists the playground as a common element, then the HOA Board has a contractual obligation to keep it open and maintain it, including ensuring it passes any governmental inspections required. I would presume doing so also helps property values.

-- The aforementioned contractual obligation also translates to imposing a special assessment, if this is what it takes to get the playground up to snuff. (Granted what "snuff" is here appears to be one of your main questions.)

-- If no one is suing to re-open the playground, I suppose all is well, relatively.

-- Then again, there's always the wise-guy (gal) kid who has the nerve to be a kid and get into all manner of things where she or he is not supposed to be. The playground might be, as the law puts it, an "attractive nuisance." With said nuisance also not having passed inspection, I think liability concerns are present even when the playground is not open.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I tried to have a playground installed in our HOA. Did all the research. Found vendors. Picked out the best and safest ground coverings. Checked with our insurance. Tried to find "deals" on equipment. The whole 9 yards on the project. We had the land. We had the kids. We lived near an Elementary school.

Guess what? When I presented the idea to the HOA/Membership it quickly got voted down! My jaw dropped as many of these board members had the very kids I was trying to get the playground for! You would think this was a great idea and everyone would have been excited over it. Not so much...

It turns out that the parents did not want the playground because their kids were growing up. Eventually the playground would have become a liability and with little play over the years. We also were not responsible for having a playground. That would have had to been added to our HOA responsibilities. Something that would had to be noted with Insurance and our Documents.

The biggest issue is we did NOT have the money for this. It would have required a special assessment if had gone forward. Plus it would have added a long term budget load on our already strained budget. Plus the people who lived in the area would not have wanted to hear screaming kids.

So your board has a point. Have you considered these fact that this is going to be a "budget sucker" in the long run? Is having a playground going to help sell houses? Most likely not.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
When communities with HOA were first built and the first homeowners moved in, many were occupied by young families with young children or in the process of starting a family. Many times the communities consisted of playground and playground equipment and those amenties maybe used for the first 5 years or so. Children grow up and don't use the playground. When the homes were re-sold, younger families in need of a playground were not buying the homes but older couples with older kids or no kids living at homes.

Managing communities with playgrounds, I don't see them used any more. Where I lived, the homes originally sold were $235,000, they are now $1M, so not affordable for a family just starting out.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 08/31/2022 3:09 PM
... snip ...

-- Then again, there's always the wise-guy (gal) kid who has the nerve to be a kid and get into all manner of things where she or he is not supposed to be. The playground might be, as the law puts it, an "attractive nuisance." With said nuisance also not having passed inspection, I think liability concerns are present even when the playground is not open.

What Augustin said. The board should talk to their insurance agent to be sure they're properly insured, and when they find out how much it costs to leave an unusable liability issue sitting there, they should give some hard thought to dismantling the thing. A "closed" sign may help, but it won't entirely protect the HOA if someone gets hurt and sues.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
I would like to add -

Boards need to figure out how to use volunteer time (theirs or non-Board volunteers) effectively. Asking a person to coordinate 4 different playground options and then not move forward on any of them, or pick the least favorite, is not a good use of volunteer time.

Good board would approve a tentative budget, and then ask for a preliminary concept and approve that, and then a final concept and approve that, and then ask for the cost and approve that as long as it came within the ballpark of the initial budget in the beginning. That way, many approvals are made along the way so a ton of time isn't put into a project that can't move forward.

But being organized like this takes work and energy on the Board's part.

Although I have personally been successful with getting projects approved with our Board, there will be a day that I sink a ton of volunteer effort into something that gets nixed. And that will probably be the day I set away from the Board. It's not purposeful to waste lots of time on something that doesn't get approved.

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