member question

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Hi all. I'm a member of an association and would like to volunteer for a state program connected to the department of environmental conservation. The program requires an association to be an entity for membership in the program. I can join as an individual but cannot take part in program without association membership. Unlikely the H.O.A. will approve the costs involved and may not even approve of their name used as member of program. My question is since I'm part of the H.O.A. can I use their name to sign up for program and pay the costs myself? I don't know of any rule that says I can't. Thanks for any insight.

Kevin

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinP15 on 08/29/2022 9:33 AM
Hi all. I'm a member of an association and would like to volunteer for a state program connected to the department of environmental conservation. The program requires an association to be an entity for membership in the program. I can join as an individual but cannot take part in program without association membership. Unlikely the H.O.A. will approve the costs involved and may not even approve of their name used as member of program. My question is since I'm part of the H.O.A. can I use their name to sign up for program and pay the costs myself? I don't know of any rule that says I can't. Thanks for any insight.

The rule that says you cannot use name of the HOA is that of "ultra vires" and similar law.

Your HOAs governing documents and/or state law almost assuredly give the board the sole authority for a decision like this.

Do not even think what you are thinking. Instead, your sole recourse is through the art of persuasion of the board, to include getting on the board with folks who feel as you do, and then seeing if the other directors and HOA attorney feel membership in this program is in the HOAs best interests and consistent with the governing documents of the HOA.

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 9:53 AM

Posted By KevinP15 on 08/29/2022 9:33 AM
Hi all. I'm a member of an association and would like to volunteer for a state program connected to the department of environmental conservation. The program requires an association to be an entity for membership in the program. I can join as an individual but cannot take part in program without association membership. Unlikely the H.O.A. will approve the costs involved and may not even approve of their name used as member of program. My question is since I'm part of the H.O.A. can I use their name to sign up for program and pay the costs myself? I don't know of any rule that says I can't. Thanks for any insight.

The rule that says you cannot use name of the HOA is that of "ultra vires" and similar law.

Your HOAs governing documents and/or state law almost assuredly give the board the sole authority for a decision like this.

Do not even think what you are thinking. Instead, your sole recourse is through the art of persuasion of the board, to include getting on the board with folks who feel as you do, and then seeing if the other directors and HOA attorney feel membership in this program is in the HOAs best interests and consistent with the governing documents of the HOA.

Thank you for that info, much appreciated. We're a young H.O.A with some fighting already. Art of persuasion it shall be.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 9:53 AM

Your HOAs governing documents and/or state law almost assuredly give the board the sole authority for a decision like this.

Alternatively, getting the membership to pass an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation and/or the Declaration and/or the Bylaws would do the trick. Any such proposed amendment should first be run by the HOA attorney.

If this has anything to do with adapting to climate change, sparing damage to property and harm to people, I am for it.

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 11:34 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 9:53 AM

Your HOAs governing documents and/or state law almost assuredly give the board the sole authority for a decision like this.

Alternatively, getting the membership to pass an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation and/or the Declaration and/or the Bylaws would do the trick. Any such proposed amendment should first be run by the HOA attorney.

If this has anything to do with adapting to climate change, sparing damage to property and harm to people, I am for it.

No harm to anyone, really. It would be nice if cost were supported by the association and maybe at a future time but I'm not getting my hopes up on that part. We live by a lake and the program is called Citizens Lake Assesment Program. A small group of dedicated volunteers take water samples and send them off to a lab. It's a five year program with training provided and can identify problems before they happen or at least get a jump on them if they do. A lake and watershed management can be created. There are hundreds of other lakes in the state on a list for 2023 and I'd like to get on for at least 2024. That's why I'll need to get permission soon. My wife is president of the H.O.A. and she's my first obstacle. The agenda for the upcoming yearly member meeting is already out there so my option here is to email the members to explain the program and the fact I'm not looking for their money....just permission to use the name. In a sense it's in their best interest since they're invested in their peoperty and homes. If the lake water quality ever goes south and they decide to bail out, they're property could go down?

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinP15 on 08/29/2022 3:43 PM

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 11:34 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 9:53 AM

Your HOAs governing documents and/or state law almost assuredly give the board the sole authority for a decision like this.

Alternatively, getting the membership to pass an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation and/or the Declaration and/or the Bylaws would do the trick. Any such proposed amendment should first be run by the HOA attorney.

If this has anything to do with adapting to climate change, sparing damage to property and harm to people, I am for it.

No harm to anyone, really. It would be nice if cost were supported by the association and maybe at a future time but I'm not getting my hopes up on that part. We live by a lake and the program is called Citizens Lake Assesment Program. A small group of dedicated volunteers take water samples and send them off to a lab. It's a five year program with training provided and can identify problems before they happen or at least get a jump on them if they do. A lake and watershed management can be created. There are hundreds of other lakes in the state on a list for 2023 and I'd like to get on for at least 2024. That's why I'll need to get permission soon. My wife is president of the H.O.A. and she's my first obstacle. The agenda for the upcoming yearly member meeting is already out there so my option here is to email the members to explain the program and the fact I'm not looking for their money....just permission to use the name. In a sense it's in their best interest since they're invested in their peoperty and homes. If the lake water quality ever goes south and they decide to bail out, they're property could go down?

*their property

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinP15 on 08/29/2022 3:43 PM

No harm to anyone, really. It would be nice if cost were supported by the association and maybe at a future time but I'm not getting my hopes up on that part. We live by a lake and the program is called Citizens Lake Assesment Program. A small group of dedicated volunteers take water samples and send them off to a lab. It's a five year program with training provided and can identify problems before they happen or at least get a jump on them if they do. A lake and watershed management can be created. There are hundreds of other lakes in the state on a list for 2023 and I'd like to get on for at least 2024. That's why I'll need to get permission soon. My wife is president of the H.O.A. and she's my first obstacle. The agenda for the upcoming yearly member meeting is already out there so my option here is to email the members to explain the program and the fact I'm not looking for their money....just permission to use the name. In a sense it's in their best interest since they're invested in their peoperty and homes. If the lake water quality ever goes south and they decide to bail out, they're property could go down?

Maybe you want to try to call a Special Meeting of members to discuss what you would like to do and see if there's any interest?

The strategy for something like this should be: Communicate, communicate communicate, over many months.

And to be really annoying: There's a question about whether your donation to the HOA to pay for this program is taxable income to the HOA.

It could be argued that a wise board could find justification for the expense here and just do it. After all, the Board has the duty to maintain the grounds. In my opininon this certainly could include monitoring lake water quality, as you explained.

The bureaucracy of these matters stinks. But one is stuck with it.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Would it be possible for a representative of this program to come out and talk to your board? Better yet, a special homeowners meeting would be even better where people could ask questions. If there are HOAs already in the program, the representative might be able to help you with a contact so the board can learn about their experience.

You also said a small group of volunteers would collect the water samples- depending how much work is involved, would you consider collecting these samples on your own for the first year or two. Perhaps there are junior or senior high school students who could help out in exchange for credit in a science class.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/29/2022 4:42 PM

Posted By KevinP15 on 08/29/2022 3:43 PM

No harm to anyone, really. It would be nice if cost were supported by the association and maybe at a future time but I'm not getting my hopes up on that part. We live by a lake and the program is called Citizens Lake Assesment Program. A small group of dedicated volunteers take water samples and send them off to a lab. It's a five year program with training provided and can identify problems before they happen or at least get a jump on them if they do. A lake and watershed management can be created. There are hundreds of other lakes in the state on a list for 2023 and I'd like to get on for at least 2024. That's why I'll need to get permission soon. My wife is president of the H.O.A. and she's my first obstacle. The agenda for the upcoming yearly member meeting is already out there so my option here is to email the members to explain the program and the fact I'm not looking for their money....just permission to use the name. In a sense it's in their best interest since they're invested in their peoperty and homes. If the lake water quality ever goes south and they decide to bail out, they're property could go down?

Maybe you want to try to call a Special Meeting of members to discuss what you would like to do and see if there's any interest?

The strategy for something like this should be: Communicate, communicate communicate, over many months.

And to be really annoying: There's a question about whether your donation to the HOA to pay for this program is taxable income to the HOA.

It could be argued that a wise board could find justification for the expense here and just do it. After all, the Board has the duty to maintain the grounds. In my opininon this certainly could include monitoring lake water quality, as you explained.

The bureaucracy of these matters stinks. But one is stuck with it.

Hadn't thought of the taxable income.

h

KevinP15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 08/29/2022 6:52 PM
Would it be possible for a representative of this program to come out and talk to your board? Better yet, a special homeowners meeting would be even better where people could ask questions. If there are HOAs already in the program, the representative might be able to help you with a contact so the board can learn about their experience.

You also said a small group of volunteers would collect the water samples- depending how much work is involved, would you consider collecting these samples on your own for the first year or two. Perhaps there are junior or senior high school students who could help out in exchange for credit in a science class.

There is an H.O.A. nearby that is or has been in the program. I like that idea and will try to contact them. Thank you. I also like the idea of students but participants must be 18 or older but that still allows for college age.