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RoxanneG (Washington)
Posts: 20
Posted:
I was elected president of our HOA and have been working with a management company to get us into legal compliance in many areas. An illegitimate meeting was called by our former president and what came from that meeting was that the 6 members that attended that meeting said they never received any documentation about the annual meeting and the results of that meeting (small dues hike and me elected president). I know that our management company sent legal notification with time, date and agenda through USPS about 20 or more days before the meeting. Then she also sent follow e-mail with the same information. What can I do to prove they were mailed and informed of this? The e-mail has their addresses, but I don't know how to confirm the usps mailing. I am sure they received it, but they may not have opened or read it. Any advice on this?
Thanks!
Roxanne
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
-- First, what do you mean you were "elected President" at the annual meeting? It's almost always the Board that elects the President (the President being an "officer," with "officer" to be distinguished from "director"). Nationwide, the bylaws of HOAs and COAs and state statutes nearly always say the owners elect the directors at the annual meeting.

-- Thick skin. The job of a director and especially president is largely thankless.

-- Ask management company to confirm to the board that the MC sent proper notice to all addresses on file.

-- Ask anyone alleging they did not receive the USPS mailing to confirm with the management company that the management company has the correct address. Remind people to be polite to the management company (since I get the sense some may be not-so-happy).

-- Point out that the Bylaws say notice shall be by U. S. Mail (at a minimum). All the indications the board has is that notice was proper.

-- Point out that they cannot prove that they did not receive the notice, just as you cannot prove they did receive the notice.

-- Else it's a he said/she said situation. The Board and you need do nothing until someone files suit. Unless more facts emerge, filing suit would be dumb.

-- Thick skin. (sic)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Agree with Augustin on all. Do note the difference between how directors & officers, e.g. president are selected and by whom.

Yes,IF YOU & THE BOARD want to, just have the PM assert in writing that all Owners were sent ballots via USPS to the addresses on file and when they were sent. I assume 20 days before the election ois in your Bylaws or state statue? Did the PM also mail the notice & agenda with the ballots? sounds like it.

"illegitimate meeting" isn't really the phrase. It was just a meeting of her & others. A "real" meeting, ned minutes etc.

It helps me to know the size of the HOA and of the Board? Condos or detached homes?

With Aug, basically ignore these owners.

RoxanneG (Washington)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Thank you. The HOA has 15 members, detached condos. The original agenda was mailed more than 20 days in advance stating there would be a vote on officers and a dues increase.
Why I called this one an "illegitimate" meeting was because members were not notified by mail, SOME by e-mail, some be a note on their front door, and some not notified at all, with no agenda. Someone did take notes and provide them as "minutes".

The former president did not call the annual meeting. He did not even come (claims he did not know about it). 4 of the 15 members came. Our quorum requirement is 25%. We elected board members, then I was elected president by the board members.

I provided all the USPS documentation I (we) were mailed from the PM about the prior annual meetings. They are claiming they were "excluded" from this information. Simply not true.

Do I suggest they file a law suit so it can me taken care of in court?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
We would always include a mailing to the Association when we made mailings. This way, we had a postmark and membership list to prove to a court that the mailing was made. Mail takes much longer to go through the system then it used to. Make sure that this additional time is accounted for. If you have a 15 day minimum notice, I would mail it 30 days in advance.

We would also put signs up at the exits of the community announcing the meeting.

We would also publish it in a newsletter that we hand delivered to each property.

We also publish it on our Associations website.

With all of those notifications - it's hard for someone to say that they were not notified. They might not have read anything, but they were notified.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoxanneG on 08/29/2022 1:42 AM
Thank you. The HOA has 15 members, detached condos. The original agenda was mailed more than 20 days in advance stating there would be a vote on officers
"Officers"? Or do you mean "directors"? An "officer" and a "director" are two different things.

Was your condominium established before or after July 1, 1990? Do you know if your condo is subject to RCW 64.34? Or RCW 64.32?

TimB4's Association's approach of mailing a notice to the association itself, as at least some evidence that notice was mailed to all owners, sounds good to me.
Quote:
Do I suggest they file a law suit so it can me taken care of in court?
No, this would be wrong and a violation of your fiduciary duty and other principles of law. For one thing, a board recommending one's adversary sue the Association is promoting litigation against the Association. Even if the lawsuit is dumb and bound to fail, the Association would have to pay an attorney to defend against it. To promote the Association's spending money on attorneys, by promoting such a lawsuit, is a bad choice. For another thing, if the owners are truly dismayed with the current board, they could arrange for a recall of the directors and install new ones. Or they could wait until the next annual election. Either of these options (recall; annual election) is more prudent than filing suit, regardless of the beef owners may have with the board. For a third thing, it's not a duty of the board to explain to association members their options. Doing so just confuses people.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Was the prez the "former prez" when he called a "meeting?" If not a director, there actually was NO Board or members meeting. It was just a gathering. I really mean it: Ignore him.
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoxanneG on 08/29/2022 1:42 AM
Thank you. The HOA has 15 members, detached condos. The original agenda was mailed more than 20 days in advance stating there would be a vote on officers and a dues increase.
Why I called this one an "illegitimate" meeting was because members were not notified by mail, SOME by e-mail, some be a note on their front door, and some not notified at all, with no agenda. Someone did take notes and provide them as "minutes".

The former president did not call the annual meeting. He did not even come (claims he did not know about it). 4 of the 15 members came. Our quorum requirement is 25%. We elected board members, then I was elected president by the board members.

I provided all the USPS documentation I (we) were mailed from the PM about the prior annual meetings. They are claiming they were "excluded" from this information. Simply not true.

Do I suggest they file a law suit so it can me taken care of in court?


In NH all notifications are required to use U.S. mail unless an owner agrees to an alternate method of notification such as email. Just because the BOD may have your email address for other purposes doesn't give them the right to send you meeting notifications via email unless you agree to it.

Our association is in the process of creating default notification method document to convert any owner that agrees to email notifications. The key as I understand it is that each owner must agree in writing to a delivery method other than the default method of U.S Mail.

Regards
John
RoxanneG (Washington)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Okay! Thanks for that good advice.
RoxanneG (Washington)
Posts: 20
Posted:
yes, it really was just a gathering, but they are up in arms!!
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoxanneG on 08/29/2022 10:37 AM
yes, it really was just a gathering, but they are up in arms!!

Get used to it.

If you hang around on this website, you may see discussions where someone refers to "vocational dissidents". There are people thrive on conflict and drama, and many HOAs/COAs have a few. Your goal is not to give them the drama that they want. My motto for dealing with these folks is "brief, bland, boring." You answer their questions, don't bring in any extraneous topics, don't engage in any back-and-forth arguing. You're aiming for the most uninteresting conversations possible. And you need to stick with it. If you follow this plan five times in a row and get pulled into an argument during the sixth time, you've just taught them that they have to argue six times to get what they want.

It does work, although it can take a while before the drama crowd learns that they can't drag you into a fight.

In addition, if you're new to being on the board, learn your governing documents backwards, forwards, and inside out. It always helps to quote relevant bits of it when someone wants to argue. You can argue opinions, but you can't argue with "the law" - and your governing documents are part of the contract that everyone agreed to abide by when they signed the closing documents on their homes. You'll get a lot less guff when people figure out that you know what you're talking about.

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