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JenniferM19 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
How would taking out a loan (lien against all owners property) help solve the problem of a reserve that was depleted by a negligent board? The loan will come with interest....... someday it all comes due and I don't have faith in the "volunteer" HOA Board (most board members act as if they are doing the community a favor and expect preferential treatment)to make sure a large loan is paid back.... not even sure how they propose to pay it back. I'm assuming as a property owner the board cannot take out a loan without all owners permission. Am i correct? What would be the advantage of a communal loan with no plan to pay it back (and with interest)?
Thanks to anyone with info to share.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
You need to read your governing documents and see what they say about the board obtaining a loan. Our documents (California robably has different rules) say that the board can obtain a loan up to a certain amount without member approval.

If your association is broke and there are bills that need to be paid for maintenance or replacement, the board only has a few choices. They can get a loan, do a special assessment, or increase fees and put extra money into savings to build up slowly. If it's an immediate expense, all they can do is get a loan or do a special assessment.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I'm betting that the board faced two options.

1) A special assessment

2) A loan.

I expect that the plan to pay it back is in the form of higher assessments or, worse, multiple special assessments.
JenniferM19 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks for the input
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Most HOA declarations prohibit the board from borrowing money.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
This should help answer your questions,

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/A/Authority-to-Borrow
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 08/20/2022 7:58 PM
Most HOA declarations prohibit the board from borrowing money.

I don't think that this is correct.

All of the governing documents I've seen give the board broad powers including selling common area or borrowing money. Mind you, this was HOA documents not COA documents.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This makes no sense why borrowing money for in the first place. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. Why would you borrow money for the sake of having money? The reason for a reserve fund is to fund a large capital project. The bank would more likely "loan" the money to a HOA based on an actual project than just to refill a fund.

Plus banks typically will loan based on "credit" of the HOA. A HOA does have some level of "credit". They would look at your collection rate and maybe rental to estimate how likely your HOA would be able to pay back the loan. Not sure why one would take out a loan against their own property risking losing that asset.

Your HOA is much better having raise dues or do a special assessment. Getting a loan just puts your HOA into a dangerous debt situation. Which ironic enough a raise in dues or special assessment would be needed anyways.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
What the board told the bank and what the board led the membership to understand can be two different things
JenniferM19 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you!
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
I agree with TimB4. Also see the link MaxB4 provided, especially since the OP indicates she is in California.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 08/20/2022 7:58 PM
Most HOA declarations prohibit the board from borrowing money.

Incorrecto Bucko.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JenniferM19 on 08/20/2022 4:23 PM
How would taking out a loan (lien against all owners property) help solve the problem of a reserve that was depleted by a negligent board? The loan will come with interest....... someday it all comes due and I don't have faith in the "volunteer" HOA Board (most board members act as if they are doing the community a favor and expect preferential treatment)to make sure a large loan is paid back.... not even sure how they propose to pay it back. I'm assuming as a property owner the board cannot take out a loan without all owners permission. Am i correct? What would be the advantage of a communal loan with no plan to pay it back (and with interest)?
Thanks to anyone with info to share.

Hi Jennifer,

The odds are great that your CC&Rs don't allow your HOA board to obtain loans where a lien is filed on the common property aka "against all owners." Instead, the loan will be backed or justified through the HOA cash flow aka "non-collateralized or unsecured loand", which will carry a higher interest and skirt the prohibition.

Now, to your question.....

The loan will allow your community to conduct the capital project that your HOA Reserve Funds don't possess the cash to cover. So, the community will see the improvement in the physical sense. That's how the loan will "help."

The loan will also introduce a new monthly expense in your operations budget that must be accounted. So, a "broke" HOA won't have enough operations budget to cover monthly bills and routine maintenance AND a loan payment. So, the loan payment will be paid by further reducing the monthly contribution to the already suffering Reserve Fund.

Summary: Your project gets completed and whatever money is currently saved for Reserves will be re-directed to payments, further reducing your savings capacity. Your dues are MUCH too low and your HOA cannot have another capital project as long as you're under this loan debt. You have a negative reserve fund that must fill the "hole" caused by loan debt, then grow to a level to fund the next capital project without needing to refinance the current loan or getting a new loan.

When I was first elected my HOA board president, this is exact scenario is what I inherited. In fact, at that time, we fell so far as refinance the existing loan due to an unexpected capital project arising in Year 3 of our 7-year loan term. We escaped eventually.

NOTE: I may have invented the

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Late last year one of my associations took out a loan for $800K to complete a roofing project. To pay for it, the members approved a 15 year special assessment. 25% of the members paid their share up front with no interest.. The special assessment had to pass with a majority of quorum or basically 25% plus one.

There is no lien on anyone's property. The bank requires quarterly financials with close attention to delinquencies. The association started with $200K in reserves and it is projected to have $1.5M after 15 years.

If properly planned for, loans can be a godsend.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/22/2022 11:03 AM
Late last year one of my associations took out a loan for $800K to complete a roofing project. To pay for it, the members approved a 15 year special assessment. 25% of the members paid their share up front with no interest.. The special assessment had to pass with a majority of quorum or basically 25% plus one.

There is no lien on anyone's property. The bank requires quarterly financials with close attention to delinquencies. The association started with $200K in reserves and it is projected to have $1.5M after 15 years.

If properly planned for, loans can be a godsend.

A 15-year assessment sounds uncomfortable. In 20 years, rinse and repeat.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Kelly and Max are on target, Jennifer.

My HOA took out a $900k loan several years ago o replace our high rise towers' roof top HVAC cooling towers--needed a crane, etc. We had no choice as they were defective & failing. We were want for a settlement with our developer but had to act.

A loan was the best choice we had.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A loan is when you have a known expense. Just to refill the reserve money for not fit that bill. Best to raise the dues to get back the lost money over time. No interest.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/22/2022 11:35 AM
A loan is when you have a known expense. Just to refill the reserve money for not fit that bill. Best to raise the dues to get back the lost money over time. No interest.

And if you need to replace your roofs now, then what?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Easy. You get an estimate for the roof expense. You then get a loan for the expense maybe minus what is left in reserves.

I am pointing out you just do not grab an amount out of thin air. Have to have hard numbers. Losing the money out of reserves because bad bookkeeping is not how you get a loan for.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/22/2022 11:51 AM
Easy. You get an estimate for the roof expense. You then get a loan for the expense maybe minus what is left in reserves.

I am pointing out you just do not grab an amount out of thin air. Have to have hard numbers. Losing the money out of reserves because bad bookkeeping is not how you get a loan for.

What, you think I grabbed a number out of thin air? It took me six months to get the loan for the HOA. And your comments are based on what, experience?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The op stated that they wanted to take out a loan because previous bord depleted it. My point is do not get a loan for that reason. You raise dues or a special assessment. You get a loan for when project is necessary. A reserve account can sit around for years without use until one day the roof falls in.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I agree with Mel. Taking a loan out to replenish the Reserves is not a good idea. Replenish the Reserves with a dues increase and/or a Special Assessment.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Look, when we took out the $900,000 loan it was to replace a reserve component that should have lasted 20-25 years but only lasted 8 due to construction defects. We essentially had to borrow as we didn't even have enough in reserves at that time to to replace the cooling towers.

The loan was to "make-up" for the lack of sufficient reserves funding and the amount we requested was a real estimate from contractors.

There was no lien on individual condos. The total assessments due each month were collateral for the loan.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Exactly Kerry that is what you do. You do not take out a loan just to fill in a hole. You do it after one is created.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I know of no bank that would give out a loan to replenish the reserves, NONE!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our loan's purpose was to make emergency replacements to our HVAC systems. It paid to replace a reserve item that should have lasted 20-25 years, but only lasted 8.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/22/2022 1:54 PM
I know of no bank that would give out a loan to replenish the reserves, NONE!

This is also my understanding.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Interesting scenario. Federal loan programs have cracked down on HOAs and COAs having insufficient reserve funding, no? And some here say a bank would not make a loan for the purpose of the reserves passing federal loan program tests?

It seems conceivable that the alternative (special assessment) sometimes may not be enough to get a COA in particular up to snuff with federal loan programs.

Banks do love to make money.

Just a thought.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Local banks will most certainly issue loans using creative approaches and their local dollars as such loans are serviced locally. I don't think corporate banks would touch it with a ten-foot pole and wouldn't waste my time chasing the Big Boys. This is where you hope the HOA has "shopped local" on their banking needs.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Besides a bank, our local Housing and Rehabilitation Authority would be willing to loan us money $500,000 at 5% for 10 years. The payments would be linked to the unit for payment, so if an owner sells the new owner picks-up the payments through tax on the property. Fortunately, we do need to do this.

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