Texas resident here

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

I'm very new to being on a board, as is our whole board. good times -- not really.

We got a new management company this year along with a new board so confusion abounds. My question is, do management companies provide no training materials for board members who have let them know that they are clueless?

And I was not not he board when the management company was chosen.

Thank you for any input.

Trista

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 08/19/2022 9:43 AM

We got a new management company this year along with a new board so confusion abounds. My question is, do management companies provide no training materials for board members who have let them know that they are clueless?

You must read the contract with the management company. Does the contract speak to the company providing training materials? If not, then no, the company has no such obligation.

If I may: As a new director, the best habit you can develop is either asking people, "Show me where it says this" or looking yourself for 'where it says this.'

In my experience, this forum's members for the greater part are eager and ready to help.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Augustin! my favorite replier!

the mgt contract does not say anything about training materials. So that answers that.

oh, I ask where it says that all the time and pretty sure the PM can't stand me and the other board members are completely annoyed with me.

One of my questions was why we weren't current with the new 2021 laws that passed in Texas. The new company came on in November. Would that not be a responsibility to tell us we need to update? I know they can't give legal advice, but at least tell us we need to get with lawyer to update. I asked him the PM in his first meeting at our property about it and he was under the impression we were run under a condo regime. His company filed the the certificate with the county that says TPC 209. The PM has been in this industry for a couple of years, from what he told us, so shouldn't he have known we're not condos?

Also, there is debate of whether we are private or city streets. It's a matter of reading the plat filed with the county, or am I mistaken? PM didn't even bring that up. Just said we're city streets.

Am I expecting too much? Am I taking this too seriously?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Ultimately, you and your board colleagues are responsible for overseeing the overall direction of the association - the property manager is there to handle the day to day. He or she can offer suggestions (I think the good ones will do that to some extent), but in the end, you and your colleagues need to find a way to stay up to date.

I know people have different viewpoints on the Comunity Association Institute (CAI), but that's a place to start if you have a local chapter. I would think Texas would have several. Start by looking at the national website to see if there's one close to you - they may be more up to date on state law concerning HOAs. When I was on my board, ours began doing updates shortly before I stepped down, so anyone could contact their local representative for more information and to give opinions on whether the bill was a good or bad idea. In fact, why not start with YOUR local representatives (some of them need to do something constructive...)

And don't forget your city and county representatives - there could be something coming that will impact your community. In my area, we have neighborhood associations that often testify at zoning board meetings if someone is proposing something great or awful in a specific area, and the boards do tend to pay close attention to what they have to say. Your city council rep may know who's in your community, and sometimes the Mayor's office will know.

I also like CAI for their education materials - there's stuff for newbies as well as folks who've been at it for some time, and the subjects range from rule enforcement to reserve studies and back to best practices when transitioning from a developer-run community to homeowner run. The materials aren't that expensive - some are free and I believe they also have webinars available.

Bottom line, you may be expecting a bit too much from the property manager, but you're also new to this, so you'll find out the best ways to get the information you need. And no, you're not taking this too seriously - you want to do a good job and that's great. It might be better to find a former board member and invite him/her to coffee and then pick their brains as to what they found most helpful (or not) when it came to finding things out. Hopefully, you'll find someone who really knows what he/she is talking about, as opposed to someone who's still salty about being voted out. Even then, what they have to say can be useful - you just have to identify the pearls from - other stuff.

Finally, never be afraid to ask questions - when people get weird about it, it may be because they really don't know the answer either, but don't want to look foolish. However, that's how we learn and the more you learn, the more confident you'll become - and realize how much more you need to learn. Most people choose to make it up as they go along and then don't understand why things to to shit so quickly. Good luck to you!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Agree with Shelia to poke around the CAI's website. Since you're interested in recent legislation that affects your association, perhaps you board should have a meeting with your HOA attorney and have her/him bring you up to date.

Say, what size is your HOA?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Trista

Most BOD will not update their docs to the current law for two reasons:

1. It will cost money.
2. The new laws apply regardless of what the docs say. Laws override docs.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

I’m currently taking the CAI class for new board members. W have 84 townhome units.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I am going to disagree with everyone here. Yes, the management company should be providing some form of training, especially when they know all are new.

We will provide two types of training, one is a three session training that will go over how to run a board meeting, insurance, reserve studies, legal. The other is an orientation meeting, after an election to bring new board members up to speed on association business and how a management company functions on behalf the association. At years end we will provide material and video of new laws enacted by the California legislature for the upcoming year.

CAI can be a good resource if the chapter in your area has an extensive education program for Board members. Where I come from, we had I believe the best in the country. I looked at two chapters in Texas, Dallas and Houston, and sadly, they have nothing to offer.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

From the way I read the new laws, we had to update if we intended to collect unpaid maintenance fees. But I’m no lawyer.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

From the way I read the new laws, we had to update if we intended to collect unpaid maintenance fees. But I’m no lawyer.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Thank you, Max. I feel as you do. The CAI Tx chapter has zero. I did find a mgt company in Tx that has posted videos of some helpful information and I have been watching those and taking the CAI online course that they offer.

Personally, I feel our PM is just apathetic. There is a question of whether we have private or public streets so I suggested to look at the plat. The PM just continued to insist we’re public and never mentioned our plat. And my brother in law can read plats, he says we are private, but he’s no official authority for the association.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 08/19/2022 10:09 AM
oh, I ask where it says that all the time and pretty sure the PM can't stand me and the other board members are completely annoyed with me.

I think you just earned your first merit badge.

Seriously, maybe tread softly for a bit. I think serving on some boards is survival. To me, this forum exists largely to help owners and directors mentally survive when they are faced with incompetence. I am watching two people in two different states get the snot beaten out of them because of all the internal conflict, cognitive dissonance et cetera they're suffering with largely rogue boards. They say they are not demoralized. I suspect otherwise. I think the game with incompetent fellow directors and managers is to accept defeat as simply reality and go forward calmly, readying for the next issue. Granted: Easier said than done.

Quote:

One of my questions was why we weren't current with the new 2021 laws that passed in Texas. The new company came on in November.

Can you please post here the ways you feel the HOA/COA is not current?

Quote:

Would that not be a responsibility to tell us we need to update?

I think this depends on how relevant the updates are to the manager performing his/her/its duties.

I know they can't give legal advice, but at least tell us we need to get with lawyer to update. I asked him the PM in his first meeting at our property about it and he was under the impression we were run under a condo regime. His company filed the the certificate with the county that says TPC 209. The PM has been in this industry for a couple of years, from what he told us, so shouldn't he have known we're not condos?

?

I do not understand. If your association is not a condo association, then your HOA would be under TPC 209 and important parts of a few other Texas statutes that involve covenants.

Quote:

Also, there is debate of whether we are private or city streets. It's a matter of reading the plat filed with the county, or am I mistaken?

I am with you and would start by reading the plats. City Clerks' offices are often very helpful with looking up and reading the basics of plats. They cannot give legal advice, but they some times can be good teachers of the basics of land use law. I think that's even part of their job description: Helping land owners figure out what's what.

Then I'd see if the Declaration (which often incorporates the plats into it, as a legal matter) has anything further to say on the subject of roads.

I do not think you are taking this too seriously.

Consider asking questions here first, before going to the board or pm.

SheliaH maybe qualified her comments about CAI and training materials for the benefit of me and a few others who are not wild about CAI. However I do think CAI has at least some training materials that have value. Some of the materials are even free. (There, that was not so hard to admit. [wink])

Thank you for the kind words.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Sometimes my fingers can't keep up with my thoughts.

"I know they can't give legal advice, but at least tell us we need to get with lawyer to update. I asked him the PM in his first meeting at our property about it and he was under the impression we were run under a condo regime. His company filed the the certificate with the county that says TPC 209. The PM has been in this industry for a couple of years, from what he told us, so shouldn't he have known we're not condos?"

What I meant was, the TPC had some big changes like having a website and all documents posted on said website, etc. I can't remember them all at the moment, but our previous mgt company had been stuck in the 1970s and was ALL PAPER and no call waiting and certainly no website. So my big question at the first meeting, before I was on the board, was will our documents be online and will we have a website to go to to look at this stuff. He told me we were run under Property Code Chapter 82, which was weird given the management company filed the management certificate as TPC 209. He kept telling me I was wrong. To me, that's something he should have known from the start and not question a resident.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 08/19/2022 12:58 PM

What I meant was, the TPC had some big changes like having a website and all documents posted on said website, etc. I can't remember them all at the moment, but our previous mgt company had been stuck in the 1970s and was ALL PAPER and no call waiting and certainly no website. So my big question at the first meeting, before I was on the board, was will our documents be online and will we have a website to go to to look at this stuff. He told me we were run under Property Code Chapter 82, which was weird given the management company filed the management certificate as TPC 209. He kept telling me I was wrong. To me, that's something he should have known from the start and not question a resident.

First, I do not see that TPC 209 requires HOAs to have a web site. Can you tell me why you think it does? As needed, see https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm

Second, you're townhomes, right?

Can you please confirm that your Declaration indicates either (1) that this is not a condominium or (2) that the association is subject to TPC 209; or (3) both?

If your association is under TPC 209, then on the one hand, yes, I would say the manager's assertion that your association is under TPC 82 is a sign of inexperience. On the other hand, the typical HOA/COA manager has a high school diploma and experience. From what I have seen, sometimes it takes awhile for them to get up to speed on the relevant laws.

I would let the blunder go.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Trista

The Bylaws or Declaration of the Association should spell out if your association is organized as a condominium or homeowners association regime. Try also looking at the Articles of Incorporation

Depending on the age of your association you may not find specific references to Texas Property Code Chapters 81 or 82 (condominiums), or Texas Property Code Section 209 (HOAs), but the words condominium or homeowners association will be there . . .someplace.

For example, on the first page of the Bylaws of a client which was organized in 2015, there is a specific reference to the Texas Uniform Condominium Act (TUCA), Chapter 82.

If you ae still having trouble, contact the insurance agent from whom the association insurance is obtained. He or she should be able to tell you in a few seconds if your association is a condominium or HOA--the insurance requirements are very different.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Augustin--

From SB1588 enacted by the Legislature in 2021

Sec. 207.006. ONLINE SUBDIVISION INFORMATION REQUIRED. (a)
This section applies only to:
(1) the property owners' association of a subdivision
composed of at least 60 lots; or
(2) a property owners' association that has contracted
with a management company.
(b) A property owners' association to which this section
applies shall make the current version of the association's
dedicatory instruments relating to the association or subdivision
and filed in the county deed records available on an Internet [a]
website:
(1) maintained by [if] the association [has,] or a
management company on behalf of the association; and
(2) available to association members [maintains, a
publicly accessible website].

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillH10 on 08/19/2022 1:20 PM
Trista

The Bylaws or Declaration of the Association should spell out if your association is organized as a condominium or homeowners association regime. Try also looking at the Articles of Incorporation

Depending on the age of your association you may not find specific references to Texas Property Code Chapters 81 or 82 (condominiums), or Texas Property Code Section 209 (HOAs), but the words condominium or homeowners association will be there . . .someplace.

For example, on the first page of the Bylaws of a client which was organized in 2015, there is a specific reference to the Texas Uniform Condominium Act (TUCA), Chapter 82.

If you ae still having trouble, contact the insurance agent from whom the association insurance is obtained. He or she should be able to tell you in a few seconds if your association is a condominium or HOA--the insurance requirements are very different.

I know our documents have Texas Property Code 209. I have no doubt or question about that. TPC 209 and Texas Non-profit Corporation Act.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/19/2022 1:13 PM

Posted By TristaJ on 08/19/2022 12:58 PM

What I meant was, the TPC had some big changes like having a website and all documents posted on said website, etc. I can't remember them all at the moment, but our previous mgt company had been stuck in the 1970s and was ALL PAPER and no call waiting and certainly no website. So my big question at the first meeting, before I was on the board, was will our documents be online and will we have a website to go to to look at this stuff. He told me we were run under Property Code Chapter 82, which was weird given the management company filed the management certificate as TPC 209. He kept telling me I was wrong. To me, that's something he should have known from the start and not question a resident.

First, I do not see that TPC 209 requires HOAs to have a web site. Can you tell me why you think it does? As needed, see https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm

Second, you're townhomes, right?

Can you please confirm that your Declaration indicates either (1) that this is not a condominium or (2) that the association is subject to TPC 209; or (3) both?

If your association is under TPC 209, then on the one hand, yes, I would say the manager's assertion that your association is under TPC 82 is a sign of inexperience. On the other hand, the typical HOA/COA manager has a high school diploma and experience. From what I have seen, sometimes it takes awhile for them to get up to speed on the relevant laws.

Bill beat me to the new laws. All of our dec pages, bylaws, article of incorporation have TEXAS PROPERTY CODE 209. There is no place in our documents that have Chapter 82. There is zero question about that. We have 84 townhomes managed by a management company.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

TristaJ,
The first step is to read the new Contract with your PMC. It should outline what they are providing and what they are not providing. With the size of your community, you are obviously what is called a Portfolio account to this company. You get x number of hours a week if you are lucky.

What is your monthly or quarterly dues?
How much is in your Reserves?
How much cash is in your day-to-day accounts?
Why is everyone on the board new? Did everyone abandon ship?

I would do a little investigating of past boards and see if anyone is willing to help you. If they still live in the HOA they should care that you guys get things in order unless they are really disgruntled.

Unless you are in a gated community you are probably on City owned streets.

Lots of people here want to help you but without information we can send you in the wrong direction at times. Details matter.

It sounds like you have the desire to handle this job which is great. Good luck the ride can get bumpy.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

BillH10, thank you kindly. Next I think you should post a master list of all the TPC sections pertaining to Texas HOAs. By December I want to be able to rattle all of them off.

TristaJ, I see that TPC 209.004 says

Sec. 209.004. MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATES. (a) A property owners' association shall record in each county in which any portion of the residential subdivision is located a management certificate, signed and acknowledged by an officer or the managing agent of the association, stating:
.
.
.
(7) the website address of any Internet website on which the association's dedicatory instruments are available in accordance with Section 207.006;

so your HOA is not currently in compliance with TPC 207.006 (by having no web site with the governing documents on it) and so TPC 209 as well. I would prepare a motion at a board meeting and be prepared for some fine tuning of this motion. As for upbraiding the management company for failing to do this, as best I can tell prudence says to let this go for now. Hopefully other directors will see that the management company really should have caught this and brought it to the board's attention, given that it appears the manager signed the required management certificate. [Jerks.]

I advise: Vent here, not with the board and certainly not with the manager.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/19/2022 1:44 PM
BillH10, thank you kindly. Next I think you should post a master list of all the TPC sections pertaining to Texas HOAs. By December I want to be able to rattle all of them off.

TristaJ, I see that TPC 209.004 says

Sec. 209.004. MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATES. (a) A property owners' association shall record in each county in which any portion of the residential subdivision is located a management certificate, signed and acknowledged by an officer or the managing agent of the association, stating:
.
.
.
(7) the website address of any Internet website on which the association's dedicatory instruments are available in accordance with Section 207.006;

so your HOA is not currently in compliance with TPC 207.006 (by having no web site with the governing documents on it) and so TPC 209 as well. I would prepare a motion at a board meeting and be prepared for some fine tuning of this motion. As for upbraiding the management company for failing to do this, as best I can tell prudence says to let this go for now. Hopefully other directors will see that the management company really should have caught this and brought it to the board's attention, given that it appears the manager signed the required management certificate. [Jerks.]

I advise: Vent here, not with the board and certainly not with the manager.

well, as usual, I let my emotions get the better of me and realize I should have come here first. Lesson learned. I'm just dropping it all and if I get elected again and new people get on the board, I might try to bring it up at that point, but only ONE TIME. After that, I will come and vent here. I am a court reporter and maybe that's why I take this too seriously. In my job, not a lot of room for error. I expect the same of others and need to chill the F out.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

TristaJ, well I think it's a big deal that the TPC requires a web site that has the governing documents on it and yet your HOA has none.

TPC 209 has a section on how to remedy violations of TPC 209. But it involves justice court, meaning massive conflict.

I am sorry you have incompetents there.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

If you place it on the board agenda, Trista, do you think the board would vote to spend an hour with your HOA attorney to get her/his opinions on some of these issues and update y'all on new Texas legislation?

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Trista,
Can you give us some more info how the old board was replaced with your board now?

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 08/19/2022 5:21 PM
Trista,
Can you give us some more info how the old board was replaced with your board now?

the old board moved during covid and the previous management company asked a few people to be their replacement. then we finally had a meeting and got to vote new people in. then one of those people moved and he asked me to replace him, so that's how I ended up serving.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 08/19/2022 5:26 PM

Posted By MarkM19 on 08/19/2022 5:21 PM
Trista,
Can you give us some more info how the old board was replaced with your board now?

the old board moved during covid and the previous management company asked a few people to be their replacement. then we finally had a meeting and got to vote new people in. then one of those people moved and he asked me to replace him, so that's how I ended up serving.

Typically the BOD will vote on filling a vacancy. It cannot just be handed to someone by someone leaving.