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MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Background on the question: We are a newly minted board of directors in a newly formed builder-to-community condo association. I am President, I have many years of experience being on HOA boards, but this is my first brand new board and set of bylaws. As in any board of directors, there are varying levels of participation and experience.

One of our primary needs is to review the bylaws and make necessary changes. This is necessary for various reasons, such as the bylaws are currently written with many developer-specific clauses and developer-specific reasons.

I have written a Presidentially worded email on my BOD-specific email account to the board of directors and the Association Manager that lays out my recommendations for one article of the bylaws. I include my intention to move to introduce this 'packet' in the next BOD meeting as a way to create a committee to review/modify the bylaws using the bylaw-approved method of bylaw amendment.

Question - in your experience, does this sound reasonable? I am, as always, trying to operate in the best interests of my community. I am extremely well versed in our founding documents and bylaws and don't see any issue from a new reading of them. I plan to send the email and the question about the appropriateness of this method to my Community Association Manager asking him the same thing I'm asking here before I send the email to the BOD.

I appreciate the opportunity to present this question.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Two recommendations:

* You'll have a better idea of what works and what doesn't if you live with these bylaws for some period of time. For example, you may believe that increasing the number of board positions can increase community involvement - which is true unless your membership leans toward the apathetic end of the spectrum and you have to beg/plead/twist arms to fill the positions.

* Bylaws are legal documents, so a lawyer will need to be involved at some point. An experienced HOA attorney may also have some good advice about provisions that may be an issue.
MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
I appreciate the advice and the time you took to answer my request.

Indeed, I'm not trying to make major changes. All the language in my email is my suggestions - as if we were debating in committee and don't make any big changes. There are 30 clauses in the article I'm starting this with, and for 19 of those 30, my recommendation is "no changes necessary IMO."

The first line of my email is that my first wish would be that a lawyer familiar with condo association legal documents review the entire thing and make their recommendations before we do any work.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You don't need to ask the property manager for his/her opinion, although 8ts OK to give an opinion. However, the proerty manager works at the board's direction, so association issues like this have to be hashed out by you and your colleagues.

You're probably overthinking this - why not state to your colleagues you've been looking at the documents and feel they need an update because most of the language refers to the developer, who's out of the picture? Start with that and encourage everyone to take a section and read it so they understand what it says and begin to think about what else should be added, tweaked or dropped.

Since you're a new owner run association, get the developer references deleted first and then focus on the rest. Give yourself and your neighbors time to settle in as a new community to see what issues come up and where the changes could start. This would be a great project for an advisory committee

You're thinking the right way on this - it takes some HOAS years before homeowners realize their documents aren't specific enough for their needs because the developer did a cut and paste job with the documents to make everything legal. They never think about the community because they won't be around anyway to clean up the mess. Some HOAs never catch up,so congrats on being farsighted enough to see what's necessary!

Two final thoughts - first, this isn't a do it yourself project. These are legal documents that you need to stand up in court, so be sure to work with your association attorney.
Second, this isn't a one shot deal. Every five to seven years you should review the documents if only to ensure they're compliant with state and federal law. Your community will change in the make up of the residents and their priorities, and there will be areas where the documents will have to be as flexible so they work to benefit the entire community. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
My BOD had discussed redoing our Covenants and Bylaws to delete all references to the Declarant. At a quoted cost of $3,000 we decided people can "read" thru those part as in leave them as is.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'll add a couple more cautions:

* Most homeowners are woefully uninformed about how condo associations work and how regulated they are, so be careful with the committee for this one. You can create unreasonable expectations and hard feelings if people's pet ideas aren't practical or legal.

* Even an experienced board member can be blindsided on occasion. Things change, including state laws - and just look at what covid has done. I second Sheila's comments about the bylaws needing periodic review as the community ages.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/13/2022 1:10 PM
My BOD had discussed redoing our Covenants and Bylaws to delete all references to the Declarant. At a quoted cost of $3,000 we decided people can "read" thru those part as in leave them as is.

Ditto in our community.
MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Thank you for taking the time to give me your detailed answer, I appreciate it.

I can respond to most of the points you made in your reply by talking about the board. As it is constituted, I am the only person willing to put in the real work needed, so my 'packet' idea is a way to try and work around the limitations I have as the Chair.

The other board members have stated that they are only willing to do the board's business during the one-hour board meetings. That's any business, research, committee work, any business.

On the legal issue, it's my first recommendation in the 'packet' that we get a full review and recommendation by a lawyer familiar with condo law before we do any work whatsoever.

What I am doing is trying to sort of give them an opportunity to accept my recommendations or do the committee work necessary to accomplish this as a board, outside of the one-hour board meetings.

I can't prove anything, but I believe that I might be the only person on the board who has ever been on an active HOA board.
MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Thank you for taking the time to give me your detailed answer, I appreciate it.

I can respond to most of the points you made in your reply by talking about the board. As it is constituted, I am the only person willing to put in the real work needed, so my 'packet' idea is a way to try and work around the limitations I have as the Chair.

The other board members have stated that they are only willing to do the board's business during the one-hour board meetings. That's any business, research, committee work, any business.

On the legal issue, it's my first recommendation in the 'packet' that we get a full review and recommendation by a lawyer familiar with condo law before we do any work whatsoever.

What I am doing is trying to sort of give them an opportunity to accept my recommendations or do the committee work necessary to accomplish this as a board, outside of the one-hour board meetings.

I can't prove anything, but I believe that I might be the only person on the board who has ever been on an active HOA board.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
There's some good advice already for you, MichaelH. It's great that you have a lot of HOA board experience. In my 14 years on the board of my HOA, only 2 directors had HOA board experience!

What size is your HOA? Condos? Detached homes? How many directors? Were the boards you've served on in the state of Georgia?

Maybe it's not this way in George, but our Bylaws and I think in most in Calif., many of the sections are drawn from CA Corporations Code or Calif. Civil Code. There only are a few sections specific to our HOA. I think they're like most which are only about the governing structure of your HOA, elections, directors, officers, committees, etc. Do yours encompass many more topics than these???

What I'm trying to understand is if there is a need for a committee to meet and discuss yours especially when here seems to be little interest. Can you share 2-3 sections that you feel need to be revised that are not developer-oriented (i.e., developer votes, etc). I feel like Im missing some of your concerns here.

Btw, a warning: as a new Board, IF you take on a lot of the Board's duties because they won't, don't know how, are too slow, etc., and you're experienced, you'll find yourself overburdened with work in no time. Try to find a way to get other directors involved right away.

For longer-time posters here, I'm getting a MichaelT, WA vibe

MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Good morning. This is in reply to KerryL1's comment.

For the group, please accept my apology for double posting one of my replies on this thread. I had initially thought the conversation thread would work the way Reddit works, but either I'm doing something incorrectly, or this message board doesn't put replies to specific comments right under those comments, design.

We are GA, very small. 60 units, condo. Three directors. My HOA board experience is in TN and GA. I was secretary/treasurer for five years in TN, served in all board positions during an 18-year stint in the development we were in before this, and now brand new President of this brand new Board in GA.

Without going into the exact language of our bylaws, it's sufficient to say that the laws controlling community associations in GA and TN are not significantly different from those controlling similar communities in other states. We have our articles of incorporation and our bylaws that cover each of the points you mention. I'm sure your bylaws also have enforcement clauses, association "self-help" clauses, definitions for all nomenclature, voting, assessments.... all of the normal contractual language that is superseded by city, state, or federal law if they conflict.

My concerns about the articles of incorporation and the bylaws revolve around the developer-centric nature of the documents. I aim to work with the community to turn the corporation's documents into something that works for the community's interests instead of the developers. As I have commented before on this thread, my first wish for the committee would be to have everything reviewed by a lawyer who is familiar with condo bylaws to "clean it up" before the committee does anything at all.

I am creating these 'packets' to move things to committees and handle them outside the board meetings. This (in theory) will allow us to move forward on business instead of slogging through this type of committee work during board meetings.
Normally I wouldn't have to do this. Normally, the executive board would constantly be engaged with the community manager and each other to get all the necessary work for the association done. In our case, that is not possible due to the stated availability of the other executives of the board.

Your penultimate paragraph is appreciated, understood, and acknowledged. Rest assured, as a 30+ year homeowner, association member, association volunteer, and board member - I have well-developed work-life balance habits. I am a lifelong learner; my favorite pastimes are reading municipal code while on the treadmill, studying history, and engaging in civic activities.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelH37 on 08/14/2022 2:50 AM
,,, snip ...

My concerns about the articles of incorporation and the bylaws revolve around the developer-centric nature of the documents. I aim to work with the community to turn the corporation's documents into something that works for the community's interests instead of the developers. As I have commented before on this thread, my first wish for the committee would be to have everything reviewed by a lawyer who is familiar with condo bylaws to "clean it up" before the committee does anything at all.

... snip ...

Could you post a quote or example of some of the developer-centric language that is hampering you? It may give us a better idea of what your concerns are.

Along with JohnC46, we've never updated our bylaws to remove references to the developer and have never found any issues with it. We may have to read more carefully, but we need to do that in any case. Relevant language for a particular issue can turn up in unexpected places. "Unless specified elsewhere" is typical gotcha phrasing.

(I once read through our CC&Rs three times in their entirety trying to find something that I could have sworn I'd read about assessments. I was beginning to think that I'd dreamed it up when I looked in our bylaws, and there it was.)

MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
In response to CathyA3 - Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I believe the consensus on whether the original question is a legitimate means to proceed has been answered as yes. As with any association committee meeting, majorities will decide yes or no on particular motions considered, and then it would again be up to an association vote to accept the proposed changes...so I'm not so much worried about the specifics as I am the procedure.

I do have other questions, and I hope that I will be welcome to use this forum. This is the first time I've ever been able to speak to peers, online, about BOD-specific issues. I look forward to talking shop with you all in the future. You've all been of great help.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Fair enough!

Yes, feel free to post more questions. We have a lot of experienced board members and community managers around here, and getting new perspectives can be very helpful. I've lived in condo communities for around 30 years and have 14+ years of board experience, and I still learn new things from our discussions.
MichaelH37 (Georgia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Thank you for your help on these questions, CathyA3, and all of your that contributed. I look forward to speaking to you in the future.

Having a peer group that understands you is so important, I appreciate this forum for that reason.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Our governing documents have five parts - articles of incorporation, declaration, bylaws, rules and regulations and architectural guidelines. We re-wrote all of them about two years ago after the previous board has spent a considerable amount of money with an HOA attorney who charged hourly and spent two years going back and forth. We are talking about tens of thousands of dollars with paragraphs on every "pet peeve" that the board members had - rental limits, violations, etc. The documents were unusable. We found a local HOA attorney who uses a template based on the Florida statutes. He charged us a flat fee - I think it was less than $3000 - to produce a new set of documents for the declaration and bylaws. Then we revised those with some things we liked or disliked from the previous documents. And of course no reference to the developer who was long gone. Then they went before the membership for approval.

Our board has the authority to change the bylaws, rules and architectural guidelines without membership approval. So we did that work on our own. We sent them out for review to the members and had open meetings to get comments and discuss before adapting them.

All of this work was done by the board. In our community, where most people are not well informed about the documents or the Florida statutes, we find that any volunteers we have seem to have a personal agenda which is not helpful. You really have to be open minded and think about the best guidelines for the community and not your personal interest. If you can get volunteers who can do that then great.

Also remember that no matter what you write in your documents, if it conflicts with the state statute then it's useless. And the statutes do change regularly. That's why we decided to invest the money in an attorney to write the first draft for us. We have a large HOA so that money was not an issue for us.

I also believe that have good, well-written documents that are clear with rules and remedies really cuts down on the number of times you have to reach out to your association attorney for help. So the cost up front saves time on the back end.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Lori just reminded me of a bit of unsolicited advice I was going to post:

Condo communities are vulnerable to being taken over by investors. There is a window of opportunity for getting this under control, and it involves a robust rental restriction that is enforced. If your current rental restriction is weak, or if you don't have one at all, then you have to enact one while the number of landlords in your community is low - after that you won't have the votes. At a very minimum you should have language in the restriction that prohibits corporate or hotel-style "rentals" and that requires an initial written lease of at least 6 months (renewals could be shorter).

There are two ways of controlling the numbers of landlords:

1. a cap on the number of allowed rentals in the community.

2. a ban on renting your unit during the first year or two of ownership.

Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. State laws also differ, so that will affect what you can do.

If you search through this site, you should find threads where we discussed it, since the topic comes up a lot. There have also been articles in the news about institutional investors buying up homes in HOAs and COAs. It's a worrisome trend if you believe that there are benefits to living in communities that are primarily owner-occupied.

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