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YvonneF (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Our condominium community has had the same law firm for decades. Recently, our Property Management Company has literally collapsed and won't send out violation letters, won't respond to the President of the Board in any manner, won't open emails citing violations, won't provide copies of receipts for expenditures and intentionally had its on-site maintenance man install 13 exterior double door sets without pulling permits and using a required licensed contractor. The COA is facing potentially $31,000 in fines over the permit issue alone. We now want to change property management companies and our President elected to cancel the next monthly BOD meeting in favor of calling an Owners' Meeting to vet some potential management companies. She contacted the COA's legal counsel and his firm refused to assist if a conflict involved our Property Management company. The appearance of the firm representing both our COA AND the COA's property management company is buttressed by the property management company's CAM who said she has been working closely our attorney for four years. The attorney said he views it as a conflict of interest because he represents a lot of associations and some of those use the same property manager. The appearance of impropriety is apparent in my opinion. Why would he worry about taking action against a property management company because it might be working with another association he represents? F.S. 718.111(3)(f) states: An association may not hire an attorney who represents the management company of the association. Any thoughts?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sounds like your lawyer is the PM lawyer. So they can not represent your COA. Find another one directly hired by the COA.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By YvonneF on 08/11/2022 6:59 AM

Why would he worry about taking action against a property management company because it might be working with another association he represents? F.S. 718.111(3)(f) states: An association may not hire an attorney who represents the management company of the association. Any thoughts?

As the attorney pointed out, it gives the appearance of a conflict of interest.

Your Association would be paying him once to bring action against another person who, through recommendations, brings in continued business. Regardless of what is actually done, everyone will perceive that the attorney is going to work a deal that favors the one who brings in a continued flow of business.

As was suggested, simply find a different attorney.
I would also make a complaint about the MC to the licensing bureau (listing just the facts with dates, times, etc.)

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
This is very common. Find an attorney without any Management Company connections to represent an HOA against a Management Company.
HarryB5 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:

In many locales frequently there is a "military-industrial complex" of property managers, attorneys and accountants working more or less hand in hand. ABC Management really likes DEF lawyers who likes XYZ CPA firm.

They all refer clients to each other, go to business functions together and who knows maybe play golf or tennis together.

While not necessarily strictly illegal, these close business partnerships do not always work out in an association's best interest.

It pays in dollars and less aggravation to thoroughly vet all vendors. Get references.

Look at property management firm websites. See which properties they manage. Call a few board members and get frank opinions. Most people are willing to help.

Go to your local CAI luncheon. Observe who is sitting with whom.

There are many ways to do this.

Harry, Florida licensed CAM, current board member and former COA president

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 08/11/2022 8:16 AM
This is very common. Find an attorney without any Management Company connections to represent an HOA against a Management Company.

Sorry, but management companies do have attorney connections and vice versa, but, as I practice, my attorney WILL NEVER be one of my association's attorney.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HarryB5 on 08/16/2022 2:20 PM

In many locales frequently there is a "military-industrial complex" of property managers, attorneys and accountants working more or less hand in hand. ABC Management really likes DEF lawyers who likes XYZ CPA firm.

They all refer clients to each other, go to business functions together and who knows maybe play golf or tennis together.

While not necessarily strictly illegal, these close business partnerships do not always work out in an association's best interest.

It pays in dollars and less aggravation to thoroughly vet all vendors. Get references.

Look at property management firm websites. See which properties they manage. Call a few board members and get frank opinions. Most people are willing to help.

Go to your local CAI luncheon. Observe who is sitting with whom.

There are many ways to do this.

Harry, Florida licensed CAM, current board member and former COA president


That's a new one. Haven't heard from the "military-industrial complex" since Dwight Eisenhower. I haven't belonged to CAI in a number of years. Any management company that puts their association's names on their website needs their head examined, as I can pick them off like flies.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HarryB5 on 08/16/2022 2:20 PM

In many locales frequently there is a "military-industrial complex" of property managers, attorneys and accountants working more or less hand in hand. ABC Management really likes DEF lawyers who likes XYZ CPA firm.

They all refer clients to each other, go to business functions together and who knows maybe play golf or tennis together.

While not necessarily strictly illegal, these close business partnerships do not always work out in an association's best interest.

It pays in dollars and less aggravation to thoroughly vet all vendors. Get references.

Look at property management firm websites. See which properties they manage. Call a few board members and get frank opinions. Most people are willing to help.

Go to your local CAI luncheon. Observe who is sitting with whom.

There are many ways to do this.

Harry, Florida licensed CAM, current board member and former COA president


I’m glad I’m not the only one who has noticed this unholy alliance among companies who routinely help each other fleece HOA members. I’m impressed the Attorney in the OP had the ethics to point out the conflict of interest and step aside. The ones I’ve know have no issue with that kind of thing.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
The attorney the OP mentioned does not, I repeat, does not have a conflict of interest. The attorney has a duty to an individual association at a time, it doesn't matter in the least if the PM happens to manage multiple associations that the attorney may be involved in.

What should never happen is where the same attorney represents both the PM and the association. Also, the attorney should not be giving any advice unrelated to the association and on the association's dime. Happens way to often.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By YvonneF on 08/11/2022 6:59 AM
[The Condo Association President] contacted the COA's legal counsel and his firm refused to assist if a conflict involved our Property Management company. The appearance of the firm representing both our COA AND the COA's property management company is buttressed by the property management company's CAM who said she has been working closely our attorney for four years. The attorney said he views it as a conflict of interest because he represents a lot of associations and some of those use the same property manager. The appearance of impropriety is apparent in my opinion. Why would he worry about taking action against a property management company because it might be working with another association he represents?
Under Florida's Rules of Professional Conduct for attorneys, an an attorney may not represent a client when:

(1) the representation of one client will be directly adverse to another client; or

(2) there is a substantial risk that the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by the lawyer’s responsibilities to another client, a former client or a third person or by a personal interest of the lawyer.


See https://www-media.floridabar.org/uploads/2022/07/Ch-4-2022_02-AUG-RRTFB-8-1-2022.pdf . This rule is pretty typical for all states.

This PM company is an agent of these other HOAs/COAs, who have as counsel the attorney in question. There's no question in my mind that if the attorney goes after this PM company, then he may hurt these other HOAs/COAs.

In the last decade or so, I believe state bars have cracked down on conflicts of interest. Attorneys are treading very, very softly. So softly that it can be hard for John Smith to hire an attorney for any given situation, on account of connections (direct or remote) the attorney may have with the entity upon which John Smith wants to make a demand; sue; et cetera.

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