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President, of POA, sent out an email related to a Membership vote - would this be considered trying to influence a vote

Started by RogerJ130 replies • 432 views

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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Our POA membership will be voting on approving or denying a variance. The President just sent the following email to Membership and additional people. Is this appropriate and if it were deemed to be an attempt at influencing a membership election by a board would anything be illegal about it in Texas:

Well neighbors, we did it! We made it 90 days without much drama, no hair-pulling or annoying contentiousness... until now. You still have a Board that's working great together and still in possession of a strong commitment to the letter and spirit of the law, transparency, ethics, peace and harmony supporting the welfare of the community. Nothing's changed there.

When property owners declare they want to invest in the construction of a brand-new beautiful home that will be all stucco, I say "great!" We already have a dozen or more homes that are all stucco that've been built in Rolling Oaks over the years. But, tomorrow night we'll host a Variance vote about stucco. Now who would've thought there was anything provocative about stucco that a rule against it would've been slipped into that last set of CCRs. And even worse, when removal was promised by a previous Board member if we'd just go ahead and vote, well, that promise must've been overlooked. So, here we are stuck with a rule that says no all-stucco houses and that's where the wisdom of state legislators comes in, the variance. The variance lets the homeowners choose to allow it.

So tomorrow's vote is only one thing, will you allow our new neighbors to build the home that they wish or will you reject their request. Pretty simple: approve or deny. We won't tell you what's right for your vote. That's your business and we regard your vote as a special protected thing. And this vote is only about stucco.

Where this gets a little tricky is that one of our property owners appears to be highly stucco-adverse. Why it's an issue, I couldn't tell you but, there it is. It's a big enough issue that that person contacted a number of neighbors and worried them that a guard shack was going to be built. Not true, however one elderly lady neighbor was so alarmed that there was going to be a guard shack with bullets flying, close to tears called a Board member. Now if you didn't get one of those strange emails, forgive this email. If you did get one....please know the guard shack is not going to happen. So keep your variance vote focused on the matter at hand. Vote to approve or reject it, but don't vote one way or another just because someone is spreading misinformation.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I have to assume you think it is inappropriate, why?
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Why is the entire membership voting on an architectural variance?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/08/2022 5:53 PM
I have to assume you think it is inappropriate, why?

Its silly and melodramatic in my opinion and sarcastically pokes fun at an elderly person.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 08/08/2022 5:54 PM
Why is the entire membership voting on an architectural variance?

Per CCRs, Membership approves/denies variances.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
IMO, it isn't inappropriate. I might have done the same thing, leaving out the elderly person.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think the main point of this letter is in the last paragraph. Apparently there's a rumor floating around saying a guard shack would be built, one owner was concerned and notified a board member, possibly the president, hence the email. Not sure what this lady was told to make her think a guard shack equals bullets, but....

If that's why the president sent the letter, it would have been easier to say something like:

"there are rumors floating around a guard shack being built and for some reason it appears to be tied to the upcoming vote on allowing new houses to be built out of stucco. This is to advise everyone this isn't true. However you feel about stucco, we urge you to vote in the upcoming election.

Here's what you'll be voting on - there are no related issues that were aware of and if any come up after homeowners have their say on this issue, it will be dealt with at that time. Until then, we urge you to vote your conscience and thank you for your participation and for helping make this community a great place to live, etc., So on, so forth. "

Next, it isn't clear if the president sent this on his/her own or is implying the entire board is in agreement. That should have been stated at the start, as in "I'm speaking as a fellow homeowner/neighbor, not as a board member or officer.". After that, people should do what grown people should do - consider the pros and cons, make up their own minds and vote how they believe.

it's ok to call out the president in not being entirely clear on whether he sent this as a concerned neighbor or with the board's approval, but he also said people can and should vote how they feel. Board members are still homeowners, after all, and as long as they make it clear they're not speaking on the board's behalf and don't use association resources to send the letter, they can urge neighbors to vote for or against whatever. you disagree with the stance, send out your own letter and talk to your neighbors encouraging them to vote this down. Calling this influence peddling is over the top.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I do not know Texas POA law on this topic. What is it, Roger?

But, in CA any board member may send an email advocating a point of view so long as they don't use HOA resources.

Roger makes it seem that the prez and the Board are one and the same. But the letter seems only to be from the president-- at first, and then she uses the word "we" as if the letter is from the Board?? Who signed it Roger?

If all Owners have access to the complete email list of Owners, Roger or any other owner may send their own letter to all owners.

(The content is a different matter & I don't care for the style and her presumption that a "promise" by a previous board members should matter is something that we know isn't true.)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In Ca, even if the prez advocated a point of view, which she did AND used HOA resources, any owners would have the same right to those resources.

Question is: what about Texas POAs?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 08/08/2022 6:28 PM

it's ok to call out the president in not being entirely clear on whether he sent this as a concerned neighbor or with the board's approval, but he also said people can and should vote how they feel. Board members are still homeowners, after all, and as long as they make it clear they're not speaking on the board's behalf and don't use association resources to send the letter, they can urge neighbors to vote for or against whatever. you disagree with the stance, send out your own letter and talk to your neighbors encouraging them to vote this down. Calling this influence peddling is over the top.

She stated "President " at the bottom of the email.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/08/2022 7:08 PM
I do not know Texas POA law on this topic. What is it, Roger?

But, in CA any board member may send an email advocating a point of view so long as they don't use HOA resources.

Roger makes it seem that the prez and the Board are one and the same. But the letter seems only to be from the president-- at first, and then she uses the word "we" as if the letter is from the Board?? Who signed it Roger?

If all Owners have access to the complete email list of Owners, Roger or any other owner may send their own letter to all owners.

(The content is a different matter & I don't care for the style and her presumption that a "promise" by a previous board members should matter is something that we know isn't true.)

Signed it "President "

Exclusive email list. It is a Board email list that, besides maybe one or two members, the Membership does not have. The email was BCC to recipients, except it did list other board members' addresses.

As I understand it, under Texas Property Code, the actions are seen as an action by the board not only the board member that did the action, and all board members are legally responsible for actions of a board member that is deemed an official action, unless they send the rest of the board a letter of decent on the action. I know someone who has experience on boards of publicly traded companies, who will not be on the board of his POA for that reason alone.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
In my two preceding posts, I stuck something in the greater-than and less-than signs that does not show in my posts - I guess that is HTML script.

I wrote she signed the email 'President with the name of the Association listed.' The "name of the Association" part did not show because of that script usage.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Ok, so the next question is did she tell the board what she wanted to do? Did she run this letter last them? Did any of them say "you can say whatever you want as a homeowner, but take "president" from the signature because some people may think this is coming from the board "?

You don't know? By now everyone's received this so why not go to another board member of two and ask THEM? Even better - why not talk the president yourself and express your concerns?

For all you know, the rest of the board is already discussing this with the president and some sort of official response is on the way. You reinvest when you received this is when the election is, so why not slow your roll a bit and see what transpires. I don't know what side you're on as far as the stucco is concerned, but whether the results are what you or not, it's still worth bringing this up in a board neeting. Decide what you'll do and then do it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In Texas POAs, if anyone has the email list of all Owners, can all owners also get that list??? There are quite a few savvy Texas posters here. What is the law on this point? I'm a little puzzled that those far more knowledgeable than I about Texas POAs aren't resounding.

She signed her name & office. I don't think there's anything illegal or unethical about that no matter what it might imply.

Oh, too late now.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
An anecdote:

A few years ago we attempted to amend our rental restriction. The amendment was supported by a majority of owners, but not a super-majority - so it failed.

I have often regretted not publicly supporting/campaigning for this amendment. I mean, the board introduced it - obviously we support it, right? And I was concerned about appearing to influence the vote.

But here's the thing. Most homeowners don't see beyond their own personal concerns. I, on the other hand, was very aware of what happens if there are more than a few investors in a community. I had read some of the horror stories about investors snapping up distressed properties and de-converting condo associations when they owned enough units to control the property. This was a big issue during The Great Recession, and it's happening again. Owner-occupants do have a vested interest in keeping the number of rental units low, and this goes beyond the obvious issues of properties not being maintained, bad tenants breaking the rules, and the like.

In other words, I think I had an obligation to help people see beyond their own concerns.

So, if we had to do this again, I would be out there campaigning. Heck yeah, I'm trying to influence the vote! I want people to vote fully informed, and that will affect the outcome.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
As HOA officers we are allowed to influence a vote.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Being a Member of the BOD does not limit ones ability to express an opinion on issues. One does have to be careful to let it be known it is a personal opinion and not the opinion of the BOD.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The issue that I see now is that only board members have access to the email addresses of owners. So that are able to campaign in ways that non-director owners cannot. This would be illegal in CA.

But what about Texas?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 10:04 AM
The issue that I see now is that only board members have access to the email addresses of owners. So that are able to campaign in ways that non-director owners cannot. This would be illegal in CA.

But what about Texas?

I think this is true in many states (email addresses being unavailable).

However, there is always doing things the hard way: paper flyers snail-mailed to residences, for example (there may be issues with delivering them by hand if you're in condos since the exterior is common elements).

Or just talking to people, which may not be practical in larger communities.

Or start a website and get the word out. There are companies who provide free web hosting for simple websites, and that may be the fastest, easiest, and cheapest way.

This is just politics, and those currently in power always have an advantage over others - which means the others have to work harder and be more creative. As long as laws or governing documents aren't being violated, I'm not too outraged about this.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 10:04 AM
The issue that I see now is that only board members have access to the email addresses of owners. So that are able to campaign in ways that non-director owners cannot. This would be illegal in CA.

But what about Texas?

Yes. It is required under Texas non-profit corporate law. The Association is a 501(c)(4) so it would fall under chapter 22 law. That law requires a voting list in alphabetical order including contact information and number of votes for each member. It must be available upon request X days before meeting and during the meeting. I don't It was done and there could be exemption of which I am not aware.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 08/09/2022 11:56 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 10:04 AM
The issue that I see now is that only board members have access to the email addresses of owners. So that are able to campaign in ways that non-director owners cannot. This would be illegal in CA.

But what about Texas?


Yes. It is required under Texas non-profit corporate law. The Association is a 501(c)(4) so it would fall under chapter 22 law. That law requires a voting list in alphabetical order including contact information and number of votes for each member. It must be available upon request X days before meeting and during the meeting. I don't It was done and there could be exemption of which I am not aware.

Added note, that law specifically states is purpose is for others to be able to contact members about their votes.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
WHAT "contact information" is specified, Roger? Do non-profit statutes apply to POAs? (I'd think so.)

Have to disagree with Cathy, which is rare. It, imo, is morally wrong that board members can have the Email addresses or all Owners, but non-board members may not. It also appears that laws ARE being violated based on Roger's recent post.

Sure, non-board members can do all of the legwork work, etc., that Cathy (and others of us listed elsewhere), but why should directors have such a distinct advantage over non-directors? Solely because they're "in power?" This is NOT the case in Ca and perhaps in other states.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 12:17 PM
WHAT "contact information" is specified, Roger? Do non-profit statutes apply to POAs? (I'd think so.)

Have to disagree with Cathy, which is rare. It, imo, is morally wrong that board members can have the Email addresses or all Owners, but non-board members may not. It also appears that laws ARE being violated based on Roger's recent post.

Sure, non-board members can do all of the legwork work, etc., that Cathy (and others of us listed elsewhere), but why should directors have such a distinct advantage over non-directors? Solely because they're "in power?" This is NOT the case in Ca and perhaps in other states.

Law quoted below. While I know this Association is a non-profit, 501(c)(4) to be specific, I just checked and per the State Comptroller office, all HOAs in Texas must be some form of non-profit. Since we now have a management company, I suspect the management company prepared the list or it would be negligent since it would be required for all its POA/HOA clients.

Law - whole chapter:

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.22.htm

Relevant code:

Sec. 22.158. PREPARATION AND INSPECTION OF LIST OF VOTING MEMBERS. (a) After setting a record date for the notice of a meeting, a corporation shall prepare an alphabetical list of the names of all its voting members. The list must identify:

(1) the members who are entitled to notice and the members who are not entitled to notice of the meeting;

(2) the address of each voting member; and

(3) the number of votes each voting member is entitled to cast at the meeting.

(b) Not later than the second business day after the date notice is given of a meeting for which a list was prepared in accordance with Subsection (a), and continuing through the meeting, the list of voting members must be available at the corporation's principal office or at a reasonable place in the municipality in which the meeting will be held, as identified in the notice of the meeting, for inspection by members entitled to vote at the meeting for the purpose of communication with other members concerning the meeting.

(c) A voting member or voting member's agent or attorney is entitled on written demand to inspect and, at the member's expense and subject to Section 22.351, copy the list at a reasonable time during the period the list is available for inspection.

(d) The corporation shall make the list of voting members available at the meeting. A voting member or voting member's agent or attorney is entitled to inspect the list at any time during the meeting or an adjournment of the meeting.

Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 182, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 2006.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Roger,

I see nothing in what you posted that email addresses be given to Members. It should be allowed, but every state has their own rules. What Kerry failed to mention is that email addresses have only been available to members since January 1, 2020. The case law that made this possible is WORLDMARK, THE CLUB v. WYNDHAM RESORT DEVELOPMENT CORP.2010.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 12:17 PM
WHAT "contact information" is specified, Roger? Do non-profit statutes apply to POAs? (I'd think so.)

Have to disagree with Cathy, which is rare. It, imo, is morally wrong that board members can have the Email addresses or all Owners, but non-board members may not. It also appears that laws ARE being violated based on Roger's recent post.

Sure, non-board members can do all of the legwork work, etc., that Cathy (and others of us listed elsewhere), but why should directors have such a distinct advantage over non-directors? Solely because they're "in power?" This is NOT the case in Ca and perhaps in other states.

I said that I wasn't too upset about not having email addresses as long as it isn't required by the state or governing docs.

However, even if email addresses *were* available in my state, I still wouldn't go that route:

* Emails from some random address can end up spam folders or get deleted unread. (This won't happen if homeowners are used to getting email from the association's email address, but it could happen if the board member uses a personal email address. So email may not provide the advantage that people think it does.)

* People get way too much email already and can be aggressive about deleting stuff.

* Snail mail *does* get delivered, and websites are always available.

* Well-designed flyers or websites are more likely to be read.

So I'm more interested in how effective a communication method is and less in how much work is required. If I wanted to communicate with my neighbors about some hot-button issue, I'd go the website route (with maybe a teaser flyer directing people to the website).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, as Roger just showed us, apparently HOAs are not required to give non-director owners email addys in Texas. I still don't know what, if anything, TX POA code might state.

I do agree that multi-pronged approaches should be used. Email alone isn't sufficient and I never claimed it is.

In our HOA, email addys were very effective in urging owners to vote on our restated CC&Rs earlier this year with our 25% landlords and 12% (at least) of part-time owner occupants. Many of us campaigners received email responses with specific questions. Our CC&Rs had been 100+ pages long and still was 77 because we're are a mixed-use HOA and have other complexities.

We campaigners also made flyers for under condo doors (legal in CA) and sometimes phoned owners who hadn't responded. We did have a 2nd USPS mailing of ballots to those who hadn't voted, which also was effective. We needed 67% approval & garnered 64%. Our campaign methods satisfied a judge who OK's our restated CC&Rs the other day.

I don't know what "websites" means. An HOA website that owner can interact on, Cathy?

Max: Why is the world was it a "failure" that I didn't state the effective date when email addresses to be possessed by owners? That has zero to do with the OP's topic. What IS your point?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 1:55 PM

Max: Why is the world was it a "failure" that I didn't state the effective date when email addresses to be possessed by owners? That has zero to do with the OP's topic. What IS your point?

Whether or not a member has access to email addresses, what does that have to do with the topic????
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2022 1:55 PM
... snip ...

I don't know what "websites" means. An HOA website that owner can interact on, Cathy?

... snip ...

I'm thinking of a personal informational website, not interactive (don't want to deal with the liability nonsense or the development time). Probably two or three pages at most.

And then just present the information that I want people to have. For example, if I were supporting our amended rental restriction, I'd do something like:

VOTE SMART, Happy Valley Condo Owners!

* Unlimited rentals affect your financial health. (Lenders won't approve mortgages so you can't re-finance; being limited to cash-only buyers may drive down home prices; the community is less attractive to people who don't want to live in a rental community.)

* You may be forced to sell your home. (Investors can target a community and force a de-conversion. Include some links to current stories.)

* Out-of-town owners often push the work of running your community onto those who live here.


One eye-catching headline, a max of three bullet points with links to further information. If I were on the board at the time, I'd include another page with a plain-English version of the amendment (which our attorney provided), with my comments pointing out the benefits to everyone including current landlords. If I weren't on the board, I'd skip the plain-English text and just go with another page pointing out the benefits.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Those who read the OP's sentences are able to see that he & other non-directors have no access to Owners email addresses. The board prez & other directors or officers do. Roger cannot send emails to owners with his point of view as he'd be able to do in CA & perhaps in other states.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
In That case, I'd like to know what he's more upset about - not having access to the owners contact list so he can write his own letter and send it - or that the president sent a letter without making it clear she was writing as a homeowner, not as board president and therefore, her letter doesn't necessarily reflect the views of her colleagues.

Both are legitimate concerns, but Roger also asked about influencing the vote, and it's impossible to know if that's happened. I would hope he and everyone else in that community have enough brains to make up their own minds about the isdue, participate in the vote and we'll see who wins. As for the president, the letters out there now, so however this ends, he should go to a board meeting and tell the board and President that this doesn't look proper. Sometimes, what's unethical isn't always against the law, although I believe in many cases, it's only a degree or two off of tipping into the illegal zone.

Once again roger, if this vote is fast approaching, you can request the owner list and send out your own letter or go the old fashioned way - get off the computer and walk around the neighborhood and tell others how you feel. After the vite, address the presidents conduct in more detail. Someone said the resident's email may have been eaten be anti spam blockers anyway, so there might not be much to worry about.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm not going to look for th epost, but I think Roger said the meeting has, by now, been held. I think I recall in the paid, that Roger doesn't tell us j how things turn out. Will you this time, Roger?

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