Probability of Success—Lawsuit against HOA

Hello. My HOA is still very much showing favourtism to investors & their tenants. I believe I had previously mentioned our guest parking is given to unit overflow (ex. 5 tenants w/a 2 car garage gets 3 spots outside), while homeowners like me are denied just one overflow space.
One violation, of great concern to our safety, are the STR’s. Of course, with Governor Newsom’s Bill & Davis-Stirling’s reversals to keep our communities safe, anything 30 days & over is A OK. We have one board member doing an Airbnb w/a 2 night minimum and a homesteader running for the Board doing the same. The management company/Board are well aware, but continue to uphold the operations.
Not to sound petty, but they made me pay for a small bush in front of my unit I requested, for symmetry!
Question: What is the likelihood I can win against my HOA for Selective Enforcement??
These people won’t even allow us, as owners, to have a forum section in the portal; they don’t want us to form alliances. Furthermore, they do not seem to be collecting absentee landlord nor tenant information; I also deem this as a safety breach. Oh, had I mentioned they refuse to post Private Property signs, as recommended by police? (And yes, I know they have the convenience of plausible deniability when it comes to voluntarily making certain our community is secure, but REALLY?!)
Thank you, in advance, for your sincere and polite responses.

Lawsuits can be a crap shoot, even when you think you have a slam-dunk case. And this doesn't seem like a slam-dunk.

The bottom line, though, is this: how much is this worth to you?

* Lawsuits are expensive, both for the plaintiff and the defendant. Assessments will go up to pay for this (to quote Melissa: "you're suing yourself and your neighbors").

* The association's insurer may jack up your rates or dump you altogether. This is bad.

* Court cases take a long time - you won't get immediate relief, and you may get no relief at all.

* Lawsuits are stressful.

* Finally, your neighbors will hate you for this, especially if your issues seem petty to them - if you have friends in the community, prepare to lose them.

Talk to a lawyer about your chances.

Kerry, you probably know this. Are Alice's complaints suitable for IDR?

Sadly, I know very little about IDR as our boards just haven't had experience with them. Among Alice's complaints, that a board member and a potential board member are violating the STVR statutes and their own documents is a significant violation.

Alice, you might look at the IDR section in your CC&Rs or at Davis-stirling.com for guidance. Maybe be Max can help.

I don't think the other issues warrant an IDR. The Board isn't required to have an online forum for Owners. Have you brought up th STVR violations at an ope board meeting during open forum?

Some of these things you posted are not unreasonable or "normal". Our HOA only allows for "For Sale/Rent" signs. Private property would violate that rule. Plus each state is different on what it means to post such a sign like "No Trespassing". That could be the reason denied allowed to put up the sign.

Our HOA you are allowed 1 tree in the front yard. One of which I had no choice as builder put in. If I was to put another tree in, I would have to get permission and pay for the tree. Not sure why you think the HOA would pay for it?

Parking do not know enough information on how your HOA is set up. Not everyone's parking situation is equal. My neighbor has limited parking because there is a "traffic island" in the road behind their driveway. So they have no way to park cars on side of road. My house I have 2 places I can.

The HOA does not have much to do with tenants. That is the landlord/members responsibility. The address of the owner is the address used. If the landlord decides to share their address outside of the HOA that is what they do. However, per the HOA they have the owner's address if it's in the HOA. Not sure why they need to go elsewhere. Death and taxes are assured. That is where the tax accessor's office comes in.

Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. It's best to get a group of like minded members to get together to make changes. Also did not mention if this is still developer controlled HOA or not?

John, thank you for your empathy; either people here don’t understand what I’m going though, have little compassion or miss the point entirely. You get it.
Yes, now I suspect over 55% are rentals (was closer to 51%, I think when I bought a year and a half ago). At the time, I wasn’t even thinking there would be rentals here, as they are all attached townhomes. I had never lived in an HOA-run place, nor had I expected condo life (my first “home” in California) would be no better than an apartment! Renters and vacationers packing my building while I was an owner, essentially paying for their negligence and MY HOA dues, insurance, etc.; horrible.
I just don’t understand the love affair my HOA, in this townhome complex, has with investors?! They take up for them at every turn & even don’t mind them sitting on the Board! None of us owners are getting a fair shake (who little I know & who care to speak to me about it all). When pot smoke rolls in from another unit, management gets mouthy with us & says “they can do whatever they want in their place”, etc. When I asked an investor to please ask the neighbouring tenants to stop leaving their garage door open (attracting break-ins we have been having), I was slammed with a nasty letter “on behalf of the Board” (which I doubt the Board even knew about—like most things the manager hides from owners). BTW, that investor got agressive with me, saying “we can buy wherever we want”. So why then did he pick an HOA community that has rules he knows his tentants must follow?
I know, I know, but earlier when I spoke of a small plant I wanted, a Board member/investor got a whole g/d tree (costly affair) while I had to pay for my tiny camellia I requested to look like all the others on my block. This is an old complex with ages-old landscape; I was just trying to have my patch restored, NOT getting something that didn’t belong in the first place.
Seriously, what is the technical use of an HOA when the properties are almost all rentals? It defeats the purpose and undermines the whole structure, as well as the (what I call) Homesteaders — to differentiate from Investors (which, by the way, the manager assertively argued they ARE homeowners—what a spin on the definition🤣).
Simply, I want to move on, but where? Everything is being eaten up & abused by Investors, not to mention a free-standing home in a pleasant area here in SoCal, is out of reach pretty much.
Sorry. Thanks for listening 😔

I badly wish we could vote them all out, but the root of the evil is the manager for this complex. As long as the management company will not listen to complains lodged against her (I, for one, never received a response from the company president), there can be nothing done. And with the great majority now investment-owned, we, as homesteaders, are sunk.
By “homesteader”, I mean one who owns and lives within the property—to differentiate from Investors (although the manager has tried to tersely split hairs on this, claiming the Investors are Homeowners!)
Insofar as anyone better, sadly no. As I had mentioned, someone gunning to run again (thankfully she didn’t get it last time—the Airbnb-er), is likely to get in, despite my protestation, with evidence of her motel violation. When my neighbour ran last year, she had doors slammed in her face and those she was able to talk to, said they are fed up with the HOA; basically apathetic. Turns out my neighbour won a seat, yet fell right into line with the rest of the brown-nosing Board; she pretends she is on my side but very clearly condones the Investors. SMH!

Alice,

I feel your pain when dealing with rentals and renters. What wasn't asked is what size is your HOA? If your complex is over 50% rentals, the ship has sailed, so to speak. As far as IDR or ADR, you don't need to look in your CCRs, that is a document(s) that is supposed to be mailed annually with the budget, 30 days prior to the close of your fiscal year, usually in Late November.

Kerry mentioned amending the rental clause that Newsom signed in 2020, and having until July 1, 2022 to comply. Well, half of California's 60,000 HOA's are self-managed and guess how many know that AB3182 was signed into law, yep, slim to none, and I already said what happened to slim.

As far as a lawsuit, you couldn't take this to small claims are they are worthless. Your next avenue would be Superior Court and you are looking at a minimum of $20K to file a lawsuit, and no lawyer is going to do that on a contingency basis.

Unfortunately, some managers when asked by board members to jump, they ask how high. Depending on the size of your HOA, you may have a insurmountable mountain to climb.

Wow. Just wow. I've never called anyone a liar on this forum. And my response would have been considered both appropriate and polite by most people.

So Alice is clearly a new screen name and this is a troll. Thad, is that you?

I like to know why need to ASSUME what the "investors" intentions are. It's all about the money and they don't care about the community? That is quite the ASSUMPTION. The truth lies somewhere in between. An investor is NOT going to invest their money into a property that is not going to make them money. So it would be important that the property stays at a nice level of maintenance and with options. A HOA purpose to many of you is that they "maintain property values". Well is it not the purpose of an investor in it for the "money" not to make sure that happens?

When I read Alice's complaints many of them were not CC&R violations. If anything some of the things they wanted were. Putting up a sign? Well if can only have "For Sale/Rent" sign how is "Private property" sign fall into approval? Just looks like more clutter.

So it is not polite to call someone a liar either. The fact want to say you are being "polite" but yet call someone a "liar" indicates your own projections onto others.

Hi Alice,

As others have said, talk to a lawyer first to see how strong or weak your case it. Lawsuits are time-consuming, expensive, and can be very stressful.

Perhaps a group of homeowners might consider running for the board so that some of these unfair rules can be changed.

Are you a member of my association? Do you know what they say? I DO!

“When I read Alice’s complaints many of them were not CC&R violations”

You have essentially called me a liar (AGAIN). It is clear to anyone who reads, who is in the right. Does being online to denigrate satisfy you some way? Stop with your projection theory—it’s tiresome and misused reverse psychology.
I came here for APPROPRIATE and POLITE responses. I am only responding to you this time to negate Silence is Complicity, although I really didn’t want to take my time.
I was neither agressive nor sought such, with my post and neither appreciate nor entertain the same. Who said anything about For Rent/Sale signs? If you regard security measures, such as signs to discourage crime as “clutter”, you have a real issue. I’m
Go away and leave space for constructive conversations on this forum!

Alice

Who are you accusing you of lying? If Dean, he has only posted once in this chat so how can he be calling you a liar AGAIN?

Know what, Melissa & JohnC??? Alice is clearly in a lot of pain. Mebbe a little mercy is a good thing.

Thank you, Kerry. So kind of you. Following this thread, you can see how bitter/disturbed this person is.

Give it a rest

Here's one reason to give it a rest, Melissa. Your remarks do ZERO to work with the O.P. or help anyone else who might have similar problems I have an idea! Why not tell us in what century and year(s?) you were an HOA prez. You seem to want to keep jabbering.

If one actually reads the posts, Alice didn't call anyone a liar.

Alice perceived that she was being called a liar. I don't think that that was the case, but I can see where Alice might think that from her point of view.

Per the initial posting, Alice isn't concerned that much on long term rentals but short term rentals (which has been discussed on this site several times since the formation of internet short term rental sites). She also points out that a few board members have short term rentals. Hence the concern that the HOA is treating investors different then resident members.

Per the initial posting, Alice is aware of CA monthly rentals policy. Alice posts that the CC&Rs prohibit short term (less then 30 days per statute) rentals. However, per her postings, several individuals (including board members) continue to have rentals less then 30 days in length. Per her postings, her board has chosen not to enforce this covenant while they continue to enforce other covenants.

On a side note, she also posted that she was annoyed because a request for the Association to add a plant in front of her property was approved providing she paid for it to be done (not the main issue - so no need to fixate on it).

Alice,

Selective enforcement is when the Association applies one rule to some owners and doesn't apply the same rule to other homeowners. Not enforcing the rental restrictions on all owners is not selective enforcement. It is simply the Board choosing not to enforce this one covenant. Typically, boards are not required to enforce. They simply have the option to enforce (just as any owner has the option to enforce). One would have to read the governing documents to see if enforcement is an option or a requirement.

As pointed out, members have the right to enforce the covenants as well as the Association. However, for a member to enforce any covenant, they must take the individual owner to court which isn't fun, isn't cheap and will likely cause personal issues within the development. Therefore, this option is typically avoided.

Another option is to gather other members together and vote out the current board and vote in members who are willing to enforce this issue. Perhaps you will be willing to serve to make this happen. It isn't easy and may take a few elections to actually make it a reality.

A third option would be to check with a local attorney to see what other legal avenues you would have. Perhaps a simple letter would get the Board to toe the line. Perhaps that simple letter would make the Board dig in and cause more issues.

Of course, other options include moving, living with it, etc. I'm not saying that they are good options. I'm simply pointing out all options.

Which option you choose will have it's own pros and cons. I strongly urge you to write them down so you can make an informed decision about which option would be the best for you.

Hope this helps,

Tim

As a number of us have mentioned, Alice needs to consult with a lawyer to evaluate her chances.

I'll note one thing: she'll have a better chance of success if she focuses on a single issue that has some solid legal definitions behind it (eg. the short term rentals). By throwing in a list of other things such as plants, she may give the appearance of someone who's looking for a fight rather than trying to resolve an important issue. Perceptions matter.

The single issue may also make it easier for the courts to come up with a straightforward ruling. Extraneous issues can muddy the waters.

Thanks Cathy! Of course, I’m not going to go to court with a laundry list for reparations, however I mentioned all the situations in order to establish a history of Selective Enforcement (especially for the benefit of the misanthropes). These occurrences are vexing to those of us in the minority, which grows with each unabated Investor the management has not amended the CC&R’s to quash. On that, it has been a year since the appointed manager (autonomously running the HOA—some complaints by other homeowners aren’t even REACHING the Board!) proclaimed she was going to have the ratio of rentals to homeowners reduced to (the maximum for CA law—which I think is unjust for an HOA; this is not a PROPERTY owners association) 25%. This must have been placating lip service, as we never heard a peep from her since and she either blows past the question at meetings or ignored or emails on the subject.
And for those who want to argue (MelissaP1, stay away please), they tabled some other kinds of amendments of both the CC&R’s and the Bylaws; if it not were my neighbour who is in her 2nd term as a Board member (definitely NOT a naive “newbie”, as someone had suggested), neither I nor any other homeowner to whom she reports news, would ever know management was ever considering major overhauls (rather covert sounding). Yes, all you out there, I well realise the HOA can do anything they want, any time they want, but this doesn’t make it ethical and very well skirts the law by centimetres!
As for the Investors within our complex, many do not care. This is not an “ASSUMPTION” (as I quote another negative contributor), it is very much a fact here, where I live and take pride of my home (which is the only place of which I have established knowledge of their behaviour). In Southern California, they know demand outweighs supply. This is especially true in university areas like mine; many have their parents’ money paying for anything in any condition. Coupled with Investor neglect (aka, absentee landlords) and those tenants who have little respect, nor focus to take care, our properties appear neglected & in some cases the buildings are in decay (the property owners’ responsibility, per CC&R’s). I have yet to see an Investor respond to the rare requests to correct. When I say rare, I mean neither Management nor the HOA want to come down on them nor fine them, ergo, Selective Enforcement.
I just wish a rational voice, here, would explain the love affair/protection Management & HOA have with Investors! Are they getting money under the table? I’m not the first to notice this. And if there is no statute to state Board members must live in the complex, we are definitely doomed. As it is, any issue which must be voted upon which is perceived to benefit homeowners (“homesteaders”) over Investors. has zero chance, given Investors have a majority here. I know; what if the CC&R’s, throughout the country, we’re to state that those with multiple properties only get ONE vote!! That would even the playing field. Why not (rhetorical, Melissa & JohnC clones).

Thanks again. Meanwhile, do you know how I can not only delete my post, so as not to continue to attract abusers, but to report them? I have tried the usual automated form, but it keeps asking if I want to unsubscribe 🤨

Alice

The Gold Standard in owner associations is one vote per unit, regardless of who owns it. If one owns multi units, they get multi votes.

Sadly, amending posts are not an option on this site.

The thing is that rentals cannot be limited to longer than 30 days or have lower than a 25% cap. AND to have achieved that, the HOA would have to have sent out a notice to Owners for 28 days for comments in order to vote make their CC&Rs congruent with this new statute. They would have needed to record this CC&R. The HOA would need to have done this by July 1, 2022.

Since Alice's HOA has a majority of absentee Owners vs. owner-occupants, and the Board consists of such investors, my thought is the board never sent out the notice for 28 days of comments. This means that I'm afraid Alice's HOA could have no term limits nor rental caps! This all was very complicated. I think the only way Alice can know for sure is to check county records to see if such a change was recorded.

I don't promise that I recall this exactly right, but our PM did send out the 30 days minimum limit for Owners comment for 28 days and the Board did them approve it and it was duly recorded.

The combination of college kids' parents buying or renting homes in Alice's HOA and investors buying too definitely is a very tough spot to be in. Some neighborhoods in my city near a big university have the same problem.

Laya, thank you so much. I can’t seem to find a moderator nor the website host can be contacted. Guess we are stuck with this loony. She must be an Eleanor Rigby with LOTS of time on her hands. I haven’t bothered reading any of her rubbish, for the past day or so. If she wants to get at me, she had better jump on a plane 😉😀

Laya, thank you so much. I can’t seem to find a moderator nor the website host can be contacted. Guess we are stuck with this loony. She must be an Eleanor Rigby with LOTS of time on her hands. I haven’t bothered reading any of her rubbish, for the past day or so. If she wants to get at me, she had better jump on a plane 😉😀