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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
We have a couple of new Board members who are wanting to improve the association. They have some negative comments regarding my surveys, and say that I'm supposed to make the Board more of a team effort.

I'm happy if they want to step up, roll up their sleeves, and contribute to the Board. Haven't seen that yet, other than peanut gallery comments that they make about how I run the Board.

I'd love our Board to be more of a team. Problem all, is everytime I ask someone to do something, it either doesn't get done, gets done poorly, the Board member quits, or something else comes up. So I don't spend as much time asking others to contribute and rather focus on how we can be efficient decision makers during meetings, and I usually do the execution between meetings.

Any suggestions on how best to handle the fresh blood Board members? I think probably giving them lots of little projects they can work on and see if they get done is the best way.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So why do you feel the need to assign them thing to do? Sounds more like a dictatorship. Your vision of what a "team" is. One of the best things learned. If you don't want to do the job, do it badly. My guess is those who have "failed" may have done so on purpose.

It's like your wanting to grow flowers but your cutting their heads off before you know if they are weeds or not. If someone is going to succeed, they are going to by doing something they like/enjoy. It's not by assigning them something because it suits you. See their strengths and provide them the oportunity to succeed. Step out of the way.

Think others here have told you the same thing. Stop being so controlling. You have people who want to be part of the "Team". That will only work if you start working like one instead of assigning one.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Just because it's done differently, doesn't mean it's done poorly.

If you think it's done poorly, and make comments along those lines, I wouldn't volunteer to do anything again either.

If you insist on things being done a certain way, then you will always end up doing it yourself.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
This was one of your first "issues" when you joined this forum, MichaelT, and I'm sure you received advice.

But that was before your surveys. How often to you send them? How many items are on each? What % of households return surveys? How do your know some directors don't like their content?

I'd put one or more survey topics on the board's agenda and see what survey items these directors propose. Ask them.

I have never heard of a director, prez or not, being the Lone Ranger and sending out surveys without board approval. Frankly, if some of your survey items are as petty & trivial as SOME of your questions to us, Owners will start ignoring them. And surveys CAN be very useful.

Say, is this how you know that owners would rather you do a lot of work for free than add hours to a PM's work????

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
While there are several definitions for "Team", here's one that seems fitting . . .

A team is defined as a group of people who perform interdependent tasks to work toward accomplishing a common mission or specific objective.

The main part of this that is missing for your Board is the "common mission or specific objective". While you have your own mission/objective, other Board Members may not agree or their input is not sought/obtained. You don't get buy-in from the rest of the Board before trying to accomplish the (your) mission. Result is lack of participation from your team due to differing opinions and differing mission/objective.

If you want a Team, stop dictating what is to be done and how it is to be accomplished. Start with getting the Team together to discuss and agree upon the common missions/objectives and then get individual input/buy-in on how each person can contribute toward those goals.

Side note: Surveys can be good. Too many surveys or conducting surveys poorly is not good. Additionally, based upon what I see here, you do a great job of soliciting input from others. What is lacking is any sort of response/feedback on what you end up doing with all the input or final outcome of your issue/query. You take all the input you can soak up, but don't give much in return to let us know what you did with the input. In regard to surveys, you need to let your community know the results and/or what you plan to do with their input. If they take time to provide input and it goes into a black hole, then don't expect much input in the future, particularly if you are frequently asking for input.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 08/05/2022 7:35 AM
While there are several definitions for "Team", here's one that seems fitting . . .

A team is defined as a group of people who perform interdependent tasks to work toward accomplishing a common mission or specific objective.

The main part of this that is missing for your Board is the "common mission or specific objective". While you have your own mission/objective, other Board Members may not agree or their input is not sought/obtained. You don't get buy-in from the rest of the Board before trying to accomplish the (your) mission. Result is lack of participation from your team due to differing opinions and differing mission/objective.

If you want a Team, stop dictating what is to be done and how it is to be accomplished. Start with getting the Team together to discuss and agree upon the common missions/objectives and then get individual input/buy-in on how each person can contribute toward those goals.

Side note: Surveys can be good. Too many surveys or conducting surveys poorly is not good. Additionally, based upon what I see here, you do a great job of soliciting input from others. What is lacking is any sort of response/feedback on what you end up doing with all the input or final outcome of your issue/query. You take all the input you can soak up, but don't give much in return to let us know what you did with the input. In regard to surveys, you need to let your community know the results and/or what you plan to do with their input. If they take time to provide input and it goes into a black hole, then don't expect much input in the future, particularly if you are frequently asking for input.

Thanks ND. This is a really good post.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
I met with 2 members of the Board yesterday and we had a good conversation. Here are some interesting takeaways:

1) One Board member would like the Board to be more social together. He's proposing that we have non-meeting get togethers on occasion where we can get together and shoot the breeze. These "meetings" would be off the record and no homeowners present. I'm very leery of going down this direction because as soon as homeowners figure out that we are having secret, off the record meetings, we'll get blasted for transparency. Any thoughts?

2) I pointed out that earlier this week that we had a big NationaL Night Out event and no other Board member showed up. This would have been a great opportunity to get together, visit, and meet homeowners. I was told by one Board member that "we are al volunteers and some volunteer more than others". In other words, not interested.

3) We went through a long story about a HOA board member who is harrassing me....this was worthwhile.

4) I think some other Board members are put off by the formality of the meetings that I run. They'd prefer a more casual meeting (none of this introducing motions, seconding, voting) and more freeform discussion. Maybe over drinks. I'm really not a big fan of that. Last thing we need to start doing is drinking at Board meetings with homeowners in attendance.

I think overall, I have a style to how the HOA is run, and I need to stand behind that style. We have elections for officer positions every year. If someone else has a different idea on how the meetings should be run, they can run the meetings however they want. With the amount of arm twisting that I have to do to get people to volunteer to be Secretary or Vice President, I can't fathom they actually want the role of President. Rather just give me advice on how to do the job.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Also, there was a specific ask that we start to do homeowner votes on specific projects and costs. "The board is proposing to install a new picnic shelter for $120,000. Do you approve of the project".

I'm not a fan of this either but working up my rationale as to why.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Michael

In response--

1. No Board socializing unless it is in the context of a larger gathering of a number of owners. Your analysis is spot on.

4. We are sticklers for form, most of the time. We have a 15 unit condominium client which prefers to have free-form meetings but we insist on motions, seconds, and "All in favor" so the meeting minutes conform to generally accepted documentation requirements. See if you can find a blend.

As to the $120k picnic pavilion, that will be a common element when completed. To keep you and the Board out of jail, there had better be approval of whatever majority of the owners is specified in the governing documents for modification of the common elements before ten cents is spent.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 08/05/2022 8:14 AM
Michael

In response--

1. No Board socializing unless it is in the context of a larger gathering of a number of owners. Your analysis is spot on.

4. We are sticklers for form, most of the time. We have a 15 unit condominium client which prefers to have free-form meetings but we insist on motions, seconds, and "All in favor" so the meeting minutes conform to generally accepted documentation requirements. See if you can find a blend.

As to the $120k picnic pavilion, that will be a common element when completed. To keep you and the Board out of jail, there had better be approval of whatever majority of the owners is specified in the governing documents for modification of the common elements before ten cents is spent.

Our CC&Rs do not call out any homeowner vote required to modify community property as far as I can tell. Simply a majority of the Board.

Should we consult our attorney on that?
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Michael

I am not familiar with your association documents of course, and have zero familiarity with Washington State documents and conventions.

We have owned a property management company for 13 years in Texas and have served on boards in California and Texas since the early 90s.

We have never seen a declaration in either state which permits the Board to add to the common elements of an association (or remove common elements) without approval of some majority percentage of the owners. Especially one which involves a six figure expenditure.

We have seen language which permits modification to the existing common elements with the approval of the owners, or in some cases the board, outside the requirements for ordinary maintenance which do not require such approval.

Should you consult an attorney? If you are 150% certain owner approval is not required, then perhaps don't spend the money on the attorney. Otherwise, consult.

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 08/05/2022 8:42 AM
Michael

I am not familiar with your association documents of course, and have zero familiarity with Washington State documents and conventions.

We have owned a property management company for 13 years in Texas and have served on boards in California and Texas since the early 90s.

We have never seen a declaration in either state which permits the Board to add to the common elements of an association (or remove common elements) without approval of some majority percentage of the owners. Especially one which involves a six figure expenditure.

We have seen language which permits modification to the existing common elements with the approval of the owners, or in some cases the board, outside the requirements for ordinary maintenance which do not require such approval.

Should you consult an attorney? If you are 150% certain owner approval is not required, then perhaps don't spend the money on the attorney. Otherwise, consult.



I've seen others mention this before. I'm curious what people's take is on this verbiage from our bylaws. I think it gives the BOD to build new stuff:

***

In addition to the duties imposed by these Bylaws or by any resolution of the Corporation that may hereafter be adopted, the Executive Board shall have the power to, and be responsible for, the following:
...
Making, or contracting for the making of, repairs, additions and improvements to, or alterations of, the Common Elements.

***
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 08/05/2022 9:34 AM
Posted By BillH10 on 08/05/2022 8:42 AM
Michael

I am not familiar with your association documents of course, and have zero familiarity with Washington State documents and conventions.

We have owned a property management company for 13 years in Texas and have served on boards in California and Texas since the early 90s.

We have never seen a declaration in either state which permits the Board to add to the common elements of an association (or remove common elements) without approval of some majority percentage of the owners. Especially one which involves a six figure expenditure.

We have seen language which permits modification to the existing common elements with the approval of the owners, or in some cases the board, outside the requirements for ordinary maintenance which do not require such approval.

Should you consult an attorney? If you are 150% certain owner approval is not required, then perhaps don't spend the money on the attorney. Otherwise, consult.



I've seen others mention this before. I'm curious what people's take is on this verbiage from our bylaws. I think it gives the BOD to build new stuff:

***

In addition to the duties imposed by these Bylaws or by any resolution of the Corporation that may hereafter be adopted, the Executive Board shall have the power to, and be responsible for, the following:
...
Making, or contracting for the making of, repairs, additions and improvements to, or alterations of, the Common Elements.

***

Having the ability/authority to build new stuff is separate but related to the decision-making process to actually build new stuff.

Just because your documents may allow for the Board to spend HOA money building new stuff does not necessarily make the decision to spend that money building new stuff a prudent one.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Looks like Elvis . . . er, Michael, has left the room
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Bill,
He is probably asking Alexa all of his questions now.

I tried using the search button to search his many posts he makes weekly several times and it never finds him. It finds other Michael's but no MichaelT21.

I am sure he will be back once Alexa gets tired of him.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Originally, MichaelT of WA was Henry of AZ.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 08/05/2022 10:14 AM
Looks like Elvis . . . er, Michael, has left the room

He must have been pretty thick skinned to hang around as long as he did.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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