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EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Can a Board member legally install a washer and dryer where the water heater was previously located? This water heater is common area that supplies hot water to other units. He made the water heater closet which was owned by the Association his washer and dryer room that he could access inside his dining area. Moreover, installed a washer and dryer that is not allowed per our rules and regulations.

He then relocated the water heater to his patio that he has exclusive use to and built a closet around it. If I read the Davis Stirling Act correctly, he cannot alter any areas of common area unless he gets approval of the majority of the membership.

They won’t let me have a washer and dryer in my 1 bedroom, but approved this for a Board member several years ago. Oh, just to make note this board member still serves on the Board. Go figure….

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/G/Granting-Exclusive-Use

Here’s some legal jargon that I don’t understand fully.

Exceptions to Membership Approval. There are limited exceptions to the above requirement. Unless the governing documents provide otherwise, the board may grant exclusive to a portion of the common area without membership approval for reasons described in Civil Code § 4600(b).

To accommodate a disability.

To assign a parking space, storage unit, or other amenity, that is designated in the declaration for assignment, but is not assigned by the declaration to a specific separate interest.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Did you go to the board with ANY of these questions? If not, why not? If so, what was the response? Since these are legal questions and not everyone here is from cai, your best bet would be to consult an attorney - especially if they refuse to respond or talk around the questions.

You say the water heater closet was owned by the association - did the board well that to this board member? If so I would expect to see documents regarding the sale (and why this wasn't out before the members of this was part of the common area.

Regarding the questions about the exemptions, you'd have to look at that part of the law to see what they are and then ask the board why this are a is designed only for the use of one board member. I might understand if the area was so.e sort of laundry room for all the residents, but this doesn't sound like that.

When you go to the board meeting about this, bring as many of your neighbors as possible because I'm sure they'd love to hear the responses and review the paperwork. If there isn't any, proceed with doing whatever your documents require to call a special homeowners meeting to have this board explain themselves and possibly vote to sack the lot of them. If course, you know how the rest of this must go - you'll need a group ready and willing to step up and take over (you may have to be one of them.) Then you can talk to the association attorney about reversing this - and making that board member pay for it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MarkR21 (North Carolina)
Posts: 710
Posted:
Sounds corrupt ask then threaten legal action
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're posting a lot lately, Edward, and it's always about your "corrupt" board or the same 'ol "corrupt" director. I don't understand, though, why you cite civil code instead of your own CC&Rs or Bylaws.

You're already suing or threatening to based on a previous post.

Your CC&Rs should tell you that only HOA approved common area items may be placed in the common areas. Look for it. Your CC&Rs or rules & Regs also probably say that no one can remove common area items from the common area, like a water heater. And they certainly cannot remove it to their separate interest (their condo unit). So assuming that your docs are like most, what do you want to do about it?

Have you, by the way, read the so-called "approval" for this person to have a washer/dryer in the common area?

IMO, the "legal jargon" you cite doesn't matter.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
In order for an owner to granted exclusive right to common area, a majority of owners through secret balloting must approve.

The reason a majority of HOA's in California would cite Civil Code versus their own governing docs is they are old, very old. For instance, if Bylaws haven't been updated since 2012 and they are self-managed, they think that Action Without a Meeting, except in an emergency, still applies. It doesn't. Another for instance, CCRs not amended after 2014, state that a majority of members must approve a special assessment, when the new law lowered the requirement to a majority of quorum, and quorum being 20%, thereby cutting the requirement in half.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Edward does not seem to know his governing document's contents. IMO, it's always best to review those first before reading any state's civil code or corporations codes.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/18/2022 5:20 PM
Edward does not seem to know his governing document's contents. IMO, it's always best to review those first before reading any state's civil code or corporations codes.

AND, if there is a conflict, what takes precedence? Thought so
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I still maintain that reviewing one's governing documents FIRST is a wise move by any owner or director in an assn. Many state statures, too, in fact, say "unless the governing documents state otherwise."

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Edward

How old are your governing docs?
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hello Kerry,

Yes, I’ve been posting a lot lately, especially with our annual meeting on August 1st. I have read our bylaws over and over but Max is right on point. They have not been amended since the 1970’s and the Board will use these old CCR’s that have little or no update to the Davis Stirling Act. I’ve attached what appears to be the only thing I can find regarding common area usage and any modification IMO can only be minor. Taking a common area property owned by the Association and making for his personal use as a laundry room, and then adding a water heater closet on his patio that he has exclusive use to.

Yes, a lawsuit has been filed but these are occurrences going on all over this Country where the abuse of power are in the hands of a small few, and there’s no governing body other than the OAG that are worthless. When it comes to a lawsuit, no member should ever have to deal with a rogue board who think they own the community and thwart their way in preventing democracy by not having an election.

Section 3. Other Structural Changes
No owner shall, at his own expense or otherwise, make any alteration, addition or modification to the building in which his unit is located, or to any part or portion of the Common Area without the prior written approval of the Board. With respect to the installation of awnings, sunshades, screen doors and other minor installations to any individual unit, the prior written consent of the Board shall be exercised with a view toward promoting uniformity and thereby enhancing the attractiveness of the property as a whole. No radio or television receiving or transmitting antennae or external apparatus shall be installed on any unit or in or on any part of the Common Area, without the prior written approval of the Board. Normal radio and television installations within an individual unit are excepted.
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hi Max, they are very old. 1979 and the board had an updated rules and regulations book that they updated a number of years ago. This is where they will use the grandfather clause.

The Board made up these Rules and Regulations below.

Architectural Changes
While condominium living provides shared benefits that many single-structure residents cannot afford, community living requires uniformity and consistency to maintain property values. If considering an architectural variance, please comply with the following procedures and guidelines. The Board of Directors prior to installation must approve all exterior and/or interior alterations or improvements. Failure to comply may be cause for FINE and removal and/or replacement at the homeowner’s expense.

General Procedure for Requesting an Architectural Change:

Contact the Management Company and request an ARCHITECTURAL VARIANCE REQUEST APPLICATION.

Complete the application. All applications must be accompanied by a letter of request, including the homeowner’s name, address, and telephone number. Additionally, the name, address, phone number, workers compensation, general liability coverage and license number of the contractor must be included. Be sure to include a detailed description of the improvement and/or alteration and the following:
Dimensions and materials to be used;
Building plans;
Exterior elevations, surface and sections, structural designs and exterior details;
General exterior color schemes.

Submit the application and supporting materials to Board via the Management Company. Each owner and/or his authorized agent who submits to the Board plans for approval, agrees, by such submissions, that no action or suit of any kind to recover any damages resulting from approval or failure to approve, will be commenced against the Association, Board Members, Management Company or any designated representative thereof.

Obtain APPROVAL or DENIAL from the Board of Directors.

If APPROVED, a City of Orange building permit is required for most modifications. Approval by the Board does not constitute approval by the City of Orange, nor does approval by the City of Orange constitute approval by the Board.

Begin construction according to your submitted plans. All approved structural changes must be made only by a licensed and insured California Contractor. Homeowner assumes all liability and holds harmless the Association for any Personal Injury or Death resulting from negligence or faulty construction.

Upon completion submit the FINAL INSPECTION report to the Board. Failure to provide notification of FINAL INSPECTION from the City of Orange within 30 days of completion will result in a $100.00 fine assessment per day until such notification is received by the LVMHOA.

Homeowners are responsible for maintaining all approved alterations or improvements. This includes painting, termite & pest control, damage to the original structure, removal, restoration, etc. Failure to maintain approved alterations or improvements may result in their removal and restoration to original condition at homeowner’s expense.

Unauthorized common area or interior maintenance contracted by homeowners or residents will not be paid for by the Association but will be billed directly to the homeowner.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
From your CC&Rs: Section 3. "Other Structural Changes. No owner shall, at his own expense or otherwise, make any alteration, addition or modification to the building in which his unit is located, or to any part or portion of the Common Area without the prior written approval of the Board."

You've written that there WAS approval for the director appropriating over the water heater common area. Have you seen this doc? If it doesn't exist, moving a washer & dryer + the new necessary plumbing to the common area is a clear violation of your own documents, no matter how old they are. Ditto the addition of the venting, etc. to move the HOA water heater into the director's separate interest.

The rest of your governing documents also apply UNLESS they conflict with state statutes. Do you see conflicts in your bylaws with Civil Code, for instance, about elections? Yes you do. Davis Stirling requires election rules, and they were required to be updated in 1/20. And you've said your HOA has none. The August 1 election will not be valid

Again, how will any replies to your posts help you with the Aug. 1 election???

I'm also curious to know why -- given absentee mail-in ballots in Calif-- there's difficulty making quorum. We always have ever since that laws was implemented back in '06. Now IF your old bylaws say that voters must be present in person or by proxy, it clearly no longer applies given the '06 legislation. Aren't you and others out campaigning like crazy for votes? Haven't voting instruction & ballots been sent to owners in double envelopes to return either in person or by USPS?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Sorry Kerry,

State statue take precedence:

Civil Code § 4600. Grant of Exclusive Use.

(a) Unless the governing documents specify a different percentage, the affirmative vote of members owning at least 67 percent of the separate interests in the common interest development shall be required before the board may grant exclusive use of any portion of the common area to a member.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/18/2022 6:35 PM
From your CC&Rs: Section 3. "Other Structural Changes. No owner shall, at his own expense or otherwise, make any alteration, addition or modification to the building in which his unit is located, or to any part or portion of the Common Area without the prior written approval of the Board."

You've written that there WAS approval for the director appropriating over the water heater common area. Have you seen this doc? If it doesn't exist, moving a washer & dryer + the new necessary plumbing to the common area is a clear violation of your own documents, no matter how old they are. Ditto the addition of the venting, etc. to move the HOA water heater into the director's separate interest.

The rest of your governing documents also apply UNLESS they conflict with state statutes. Do you see conflicts in your bylaws with Civil Code, for instance, about elections? Yes you do. Davis Stirling requires election rules, and they were required to be updated in 1/20. And you've said your HOA has none. The August 1 election will not be valid

Again, how will any replies to your posts help you with the Aug. 1 election???

I'm also curious to know why -- given absentee mail-in ballots in Calif-- there's difficulty making quorum. We always have ever since that laws was implemented back in '06. Now IF your old bylaws say that voters must be present in person or by proxy, it clearly no longer applies given the '06 legislation. Aren't you and others out campaigning like crazy for votes? Haven't voting instruction & ballots been sent to owners in double envelopes to return either in person or by USPS?

This was updated in 2012 by California AB 805

3. Civil Code §4600. Granting Exclusive Use. Exempts 67% requirement to:
Accommodate disability,
Comply with governing law,
Assign parking space, storage unit designated in CC&Rs but not assigned to a specific unit.

As I said and based on experience, many HOA's have no clue that their governing documents have been updated by state statues..
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The OP's CC&Rs are not about granting exclusive use, Max. They are about making alterations, modifications, etc. They're basically typical ARC guidelines. Edward has not said the board granted the director "exclusive use" of the water heater common area room.

Edward, please understand that I'm entirely sympathetic to your dilemma. I hope you & others can somehow prevail in the upcoming election though it does not appear to be legal.

Along with my other questions to help me better understand your situation, how many directors are there? How many seats are up for election? What size is your HOA?

EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hi Kerry,

5 directors that have been running nearly 100 years combined. We have 10 members running including the current incumbents. Just over 200 units in the HOA
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hi Kerry,

5 directors that have been running nearly 100 years combined. We have 10 members running including the current incumbents. Just over 200 units in the HOA
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
So a few facts I found out.

1) The association does have up-to-date election rules, quorum is 51%, with a possible adjournment to 25%.
2) The items I mentioned before not being updated, are in the CCRs and Bylaws, special assessments and notice of posting of open meeting agenda, Bylaws state 72 hours, new statue is 96 hours.
3) The other structure is Article VII, Section 3 or the CCRs.
4) The HOA was incorporated in 1979.
5) The governing documents were typed, not the original with a recordation date stamp from the county. No original documents were uploaded, so no note if there are amendments included.
6) There are 5 directors

Based on Edward's post, the director moved the water to their exclusive use area. Not sure that is completely illegal, curious of the re-piping, as it served other units.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdwardD4 on 07/18/2022 9:22 PM
Hi Kerry,

5 directors that have been running nearly 100 years combined. We have 10 members running including the current incumbents. Just over 200 units in the HOA

If this board is corrupt as you say, you already know the next steps - go out and strongly encourage EVERYONE to participate in this election. In fact, I'd be suggesting they attend the meeting and cast votes in person because too many crazy things happen with proxies. This is one time people have to make the time to participate - otherwise this foolishness will continue and you'll be posting about something else the board did.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hi Shelia,

We are having our annual meeting via zoom again like the last 2 years. The first election company we used in 2020 the Association Manager wouldn’t allow the inspector of elections answer any concerns and re-elected the board without them being there. The 2021 annual meeting we used another election company, and 17 proxies that the board solicited not to adjourn the meeting to another date disregarded the 75 ballots casted which met the lowered quorum requirements. The solicitation of these ballots and the vote on whether or not to adjourn was not given to entire community to vote on.

Also, there was no video or physical counting of the ballots during the zoom meeting. So when they use every tactic to avoid democracy, you can’t say to campaign when there is some fishy business going on here.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Much like the current voter suppression laws being proposed (and unfortunately passed) everywhere, but that's when you have to buckle down and go around it, over it, or through it to get to where you want to go. That doesn't mean it'll be easy - people who want to hang on to power will do everything possible. Five people can't hold onto power unless they get help - in your case, it would appear the property manager's working with them because he or she wants to hang on to the account (remember the manager works at the board's direction).

However, five people can't dominate the remaining 195 owners (I assume your community is one vote per unit) unless the HOMEOWNERS allow it. You'd be surprised at how so many people are clueless as to how their communities are really run - and frankly, a lot of people like it that way (as long as my fees don't go up and I don't get a violation letter, I don't give a fast you-know-what what the board does).

If you're certain the election will be a complete sham, you don't have to wait for it - time to call a special meeting. Check your documents to see what's required, gather together like-minded neighbors (because there's strength in numbers) and perhaps throw some money in the pot to consult an attorney about all of this, so you can come up with a specific plan. It may very well end with a lawsuit or threat of one, but usually, it's best to get the homeowners together to throw the bums out - more long lasting and a lot cheaper.

You have a number of issues that need to be addresses, so start by considering what's bugging you the most, work on that, and then you can focus on everything else. If the annual meeting is coming up, focus on getthg the homeowners to attend in person (you already see the proxies might be misused or not counted at all). It's one thing to blow off two or three people - let's see if they're ballsy enough to do it in from of 50 - 100. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
If I were in this condo community, I'd be more concerned about water and electricity usage than exclusive use of the space. Water in particular is a hot button issue right now.

Am I correct that this space is served by utilities that are paid for by assessments?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Based on the Edward's info, the director did not move the water heater to his exclusive use common area, Max, he moved it into his dining room, i.e., his separate interest. He violated their CC&Rs Section 3 by altering & modifying his separate use dining room to accept the water heater's need to be vented & plumbed.

He also violated CC&R Section 3 above by installing his personal washer & dryer IN the common area water heater room. He altered and modified that common area. Edward says nothing about the granting of the common area room as exclusive use common area to the director.

Edward says there might have been board permission to do this. But, Edward, have you seen such a document???

Edward, please answer these questions:

Have all owners received their secret ballots and double envelopes by now for the Aug. 1 election?

For owners who mail them in, do they send them to the inspectors of election company? You do know these mail-in ballots count towards quorum, right?

If ballots are mailed to the election company's address, campaign like crazy to get Owners to mail in ballots. Or to give YOU & your supporters their proxys. I think you can trust the inspectors since whoever wins--the new board-- will probably hire them. Btw, the inspectors have no verbal role in the annual meeting except to do their job and announce the results of the election. Owners do not get to question them.

Per Davis-Stirling, the counting of ballots must be in a place where owners can observe it if they wish. Your election company is violating statute if their inspectors do not insist that owners be able to observe the tabulations. Owners may not speak with them while the ballots are being tabulated.

I'm concerned that Edward did not know his HOA has the required Election Rules. Per Davis-stirling, they must be easily available for Owners to read. It's crucial that you read them, Edward.

Finally how many openings are there on the board of five?

EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hi Kerry,

The Board member moved the water heater closet to his exclusive use of common area which is the patio, them opened up a wall where the water heater was previously located and installed the washer and dryer where he could access it through the dining area.

We received the mail in ballots as always right at the deadline along with the 2 envelops for secret balloting. Yes, they get mailed to the inspector of elections, and yes I do know they count towards a quorum. In regards to the proxies, I’ve mentioned this several times that they are not included with the election material, and were conjured up by the board who solicited them to selected members not to adjourn meeting to another date with a reduced quorum.

Again, our bylaws allow proxies, but they use them inconsistently during our annual meetings like in 2020 when we didn’t use them, and then in 2021 they pulled 17 proxies out of their back pocket not to adjourn disregarding the 75 members who turned in ballots and are considered present (not physically).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Edward

Do you know if the owner received permission from the BOD to make those alterations? If not, concentrate on this.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/19/2022 10:37 AM
Based on the Edward's info, the director did not move the water heater to his exclusive use common area, Max, he moved it into his dining room, i.e., his separate interest. He violated their CC&Rs Section 3 by altering & modifying his separate use dining room to accept the water heater's need to be vented & plumbed.

He also violated CC&R Section 3 above by installing his personal washer & dryer IN the common area water heater room. He altered and modified that common area. Edward says nothing about the granting of the common area room as exclusive use common area to the director.

Edward says there might have been board permission to do this. But, Edward, have you seen such a document???

Edward, please answer these questions:

Have all owners received their secret ballots and double envelopes by now for the Aug. 1 election?

For owners who mail them in, do they send them to the inspectors of election company? You do know these mail-in ballots count towards quorum, right?

If ballots are mailed to the election company's address, campaign like crazy to get Owners to mail in ballots. Or to give YOU & your supporters their proxys. I think you can trust the inspectors since whoever wins--the new board-- will probably hire them. Btw, the inspectors have no verbal role in the annual meeting except to do their job and announce the results of the election. Owners do not get to question them.

Per Davis-Stirling, the counting of ballots must be in a place where owners can observe it if they wish. Your election company is violating statute if their inspectors do not insist that owners be able to observe the tabulations. Owners may not speak with them while the ballots are being tabulated.

I'm concerned that Edward did not know his HOA has the required Election Rules. Per Davis-stirling, they must be easily available for Owners to read. It's crucial that you read them, Edward.

Finally how many openings are there on the board of five?


1) As I suspected, the heater was moved to his exclusive use area. If it serves multiple units, then it would be considered HOA property and most likely listed in the Reserve Study.

2) Becuase of COVID-19, the counting of ballots are allowed via a virtual meeting. Please check the Davis-Stirling.com for vertification.

3) The current Election Rules are listed twice on their website which is readily accessible and easy to manuever. As I mentioned before, the governing docs are are re-typed and no original docs have been uploaded.

4) in regards to proxies, there is no requirement that an association provide them to owners even though they are legally allowed.
Civil Code § 5130. Proxies.

(b) Proxies shall not be construed or used in lieu of a ballot. An association may use proxies if permitted or required by the bylaws of the association and if those proxies meet the requirements of this article, other laws, and the governing documents, but the association shall not be required to prepare or distribute proxies pursuant to this article.

In reagrds to the board pulling proxies out of their back pocket, that is a parlimentary trick. This is the language from Edward's Bylaws:

Section 13. Quorum
A quorum for the transaction of business at an Association meeting through the presence in person or by proxy of such members, shall be established at fifty-one (51%) percent of the total voting power of the Association. In the absence of a quorum at Association meetings, a majority of those present in person or by proxy, may adjourn the meeting to another time, but may not transact any other business. An adjournment for lack of a quorum shall be to a date not less than five (5) nor more than thirty (30) days from the original date and the quorum for such later meeting shall be twenty-five (25%) percent of the total voting power of the Association.

It is a legal manuever, while I feel unethical, it is something any candidate should know. I had this in 2009 when I first joined this forum. In my association, the association atttorney would not allow the members present to vote to adjourn, because the people who voted by secret ballot did not attend and should be allowed to vote to adjourn, while the language only said those present in person or by proxy. Even Kerry, using another name, agreed with the attorney, who was legally proven wrong in a court of law.
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hello Max,

Yes, unethical and misconduct with the use of proxies and a vote that was not provided to all members of the Association.
This discussion was about a washer and dryer installation installed by a board member in a common area owned by the Association, but the past annual meetings are haunting me and going back to older posts. Haha

So if you all can explain this to me that would be great. We can go back and forth citing bylaws and the Davis Stirling Act but when it all comes down to it, was it a fair and reasonable in the eyes of the HOA Gods and court?

Per Davis Stirling:

Distribution of Proxies. Any form of proxy distributed to 10 or more members of a corporation with 100 or more members must afford an opportunity on the proxy to specify a choice between approval and disapproval of each matter to be acted upon at the meeting for which the proxy is solicited. (Corp. Code § 7514(a).)

Per HOA Leader in a 2013 post:

https://www.hoaleader.com/public/No-Quorum-for-Meeting-to-Elect-a-Board-Give-Up-And-Can-the-Prior-Board-Carry-On.cfm

An HOAleader.com reader asks, "The CC&Rs say 51% for a quorum. If no quorum, quorum requirements drop to 25% for the adjourned annual meeting. My question is if a first adjourned meeting has to be called because the 25% quorum requirements were not met, and the second adjourned meeting also fails to meet the 25% quorum, what then? Does the sitting board just continue into the next term? When does the board declare failure to meet quorum requirements and end the torture?"

Here we explain whether a board has to keep torturing itself to get a quorum. We also discuss what powers board members have when their terms have expired but they can't get a quorum to elect new members.

Board Can't Give Up

Our experts are of two opinions on our reader's primary question. If the board can't get a quorum for an annual meeting and, therefore, can't have an election for new HOA board members, can the board simply give up and go on about its business with the existing board members?

"If a board is holding an election without a quorum, it's an invalid election, and then any action the board takes is subject to challenge," says David W. Kaman, a Columbus, Ohio, lawyer who specializes in advising community associations at Kaman & Cusimano LLC, which has offices in Columbus and Cleveland.

"In most of the documents I read, it says the board is elected until their successors are elected," explains Kaman. "So assume we're supposed to have our annual meeting on March 15, and we're required to have a majority of our 100 owners present. If we get only a third of the members to attend and adjourn the meeting until the end of April, my belief is the current board remains in power until its successors are elected. Any action they take until that scheduled April meeting isn't subject to challenge.

"However, if the board doesn't try again for a meeting and election within 30–45 days, I think now they're trying to perpetuate themselves, and that's a problem," adds Kaman. "Boards have to keep trying to get a quorum. As long as they do that, they have all the power of the board. It's when they stop trying that they run into trouble."

Post by Kelly Richardson. A well known HOA attorney for representing HOA’s and his posts in the papers

Another post by Davis Stirling

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/HOA-Election-Proxies:

No Prior Notice? How can the other sixty members whose ballots established quorum vote on the color change since they were not present to hear the motion? I don't believe the matter can be raised at the meeting without prior notice to the membership:
Whenever members are required or permitted to take any action at a meeting, a written notice of the meeting shall be given...to each member... and (1) in the case of a special meeting, the general nature of the business to be transacted, and no other business may be transacted, or (2) in the case of the regular meeting, those matters which the board, at the time the notice is given, intends to present for action by the members, but, except as provided in subdivision (b) of Section 7512, any proper matter may be presented at the meeting for the action. (Corp. Code §7511(a).)
Moreover, I don't believe approval is a majority of nine (those physically present) but rather a majority of those present in person and by ballot, i.e., a majority of sixty-nine members (60 by ballot and 9 in person). Assuming that approval can be accomplished by those physically present at the meeting, allowing five members to change the color scheme of the entire development would create an uproar. Members would be properly outraged since there was no prior notice of the vote.

EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
More postings on HOA Board Member Holdover:

https://www.hoamanagement.com/hoa-board-member-holdover/

Are you also all familiar with this new law?

https://openstates.org/ca/bills/20212022/SB391/

So, we haven’t had an election for as far back as I can remember.

What are your thoughts on this???
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
(1) From Max

1. It doesn’t matter where the director relocated the common area water heater from a common area room, if Edward describes this correctly. The director opened up a wall, and further physically modified both areas by installing, venting & plumbing the common area water heater, and adding a drain line, for a washer & dryer in the common area closet, which clearly violates Edward’s CC&Rs Sect. 3. The question is what can Edward do about these violations? (Unless the director got written approval, which Edward can’t seem to produce)

2. As I wrote, owners must be able to witness the tabulations. From Davis-stirling.com: “Membership Meetings & Elections….The meeting at which ballots are to be counted and tabulated must be conducted by video conference; and (2) The camera must be placed in a location such that members can witness the inspector of elections counting and tabulating the votes. (Civ. Code § 5450(d))"

3. The question is why hasn’t Edward referred to the Election Rules? He thought there weren’t any.

4. Agree. For Edward’s info: No proxy forms need to be mailed with ballots.

To Edward: How many seats are available to be filled? Does the HOA attorney participate at the annual meeting? As a members meeting, members (Owners) are the ones who make motions, etc. the PM has no authority.

Edward MUST work with others to campaign door to door to get owners to mail in their secret ballots. The Davis-stirling Act now allows flyers about Assn. business under doors even if your Rules or CC&Rs forbid it.

Edward's further questions about proxies & and adjournment are beyond my experience, but I'm sure Max can help.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Edward

You quoted an OH lawyer when you reside in CA. They can be quite different rules, regulations, laws etc. Stick to CA stuff.

I also asked you if the owner that did the renovations got BOD permission? Please answer this.
EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hello John,

Laws appear to more stricter in CA than OH IMO.

Then answer this per Davis Stirling:

How can 17 members decide not to adjourn the meeting to another date/time making a decision for 212 members who did not have that same right to vote on this matter during an annual meeting?

Regardless if he got BOD approval it’s common area owned by the Association not by the Board IMO. The bylaws and the Davis Stirling Act are pretty clear that he can’t just take something away owned by the Association and make it his own personal use for a washer and dryer room. This is where legal counsel would get involved. Since we are not attorney’s, I’m just seeing how others in this forum would respond.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Edward

1) I owe and operate a HOA management, specializing in only HOA's. Unlike your management company, I don't handle rental property. I feel doing so is unethical and the laws governing rentals and HOA's are like night and day. I also operate a HOA Election company for HOA's not under contract to our company. I attend two legal seminars each year and have done so for the past 14 years. I know HOA Civil Code and Election Code as well as any one in this state. I try and apply the laws fairly, not when it benefits a client.

2) You reference Kelly Richardson and I personally know him and have written Election Rules for HOA's with one of his senior partners. I disagree with Kelly on quorum. If California eliminate the need for quorum, many of the issues facing HOA's would disappear. The attorney at davis-stirling.com suggests eliminating quorum and proxies. At my only association I have lived in, we did just that. From 2003-2009, we never reached quorum and thus never opened ballots. In 2010, we re-wrote the Bylaws, with main purpose to eliminate the use of quorum and with its passage have had an election every year since with no issues.

3) In regards to the wash/dryer, I am not sure on that. You have mentioned that the water heater was move to the board member's unit, so really the common area is not effected, except that someone took association property.

4) A Board doesn't preside or controls over annual meeting, a presiding officer does. This by designation is the president of the association. I have presided over annual meetings when a board didn't show up. The members that were present appointed me.

5) The issue with the 17 members who decide to not adjourn happens and is legal. People vote by secret ballot so they don't have to attend a meeting. The language is clear, the people or the proxies that attend the annual meeting have control if quorum isn't met. Get rid of quorum, problem solved. I have worked with 2 Assemblymen and one State Senator to eliminate quorum and also set up a state agency to hear HOA member grievances like yours. Groups like the attorney's and CAI will fight you tooth and nail to defeat, and they have done a good job so far.

Lastly, how many folks come unto this site and praise their HOA, the Board members? Slim to none, and slim just town. Homeowners and Board members just get involved. It's left to the one or two to police a board and one or two board members to try and run an association.

Good luck to you!

EdwardD4 (California)
Posts: 99
Posted:
Hello Max all viewers,

Last question on annual meetings/elections: What input can you offer to this civil code?

Civil Code § 5103. Election by Acclamation; Term Limits.

Notwithstanding the secret balloting requirement in Section 5100, or any contrary provision in the governing documents, when, as of the deadline for submitting nominations provided for in subdivision (a) of Section 5115, the number of qualified candidates is not more than the number of vacancies to be elected, as determined by the inspector or inspectors of the elections, the association may, but is not required to, consider the qualified candidates elected by acclamation if all of the following conditions have been met:

(a) The association has held a regular election for the directors in the last three years. The three-year time period shall be calculated from the date ballots were due in the last full election to the start of voting for the proposed election.

https://hoalaw.tinnellylaw.com/amp/ab-502-signed-board-elections-acclamation-california-hoas/

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Max's recent 2 & 5: Your opinion to get rid of quorum (as my HOA did a few months ago) doesn't matter. It's a fact in Edward's HOA that quorum must be met. The only way to do that is to get out the votes.

Edward, twice--in '06 & '19 -- owners in my HOA campaigned hard and voted bad directors out and good directors in. It requires owners working hard.
You still have time before your election. What worked for us the first time was a memo to owners with a slate of three candidates- the # of openings-with their pics on it and their shared philosophy. These were US mailed to all Owners. Since by statute, your PM must give you a list of all owners, their primary addresses, and their email addy, etc. you still have time to send all an email (only 2 in my HOA of 200+ opted out of providing their email addy).

Max's recent 4. I'm glad he agrees with my above: Owners, not the board or the PM control the Annual Meeting. It IS a meeting of the members. Owners choose the presider.

I'm familiar with SB391/. What is your point about it, Edward??

Again, Edward how many spaces are up for election? Have you now read your election rules?

Max's recent 3. The water heater IS common area component, so the common area IS Affected. Wall penetration & plumbing were added to the common area closet for the director's personal washer & dryer. Yes, Edward, your attorney could probably sue the board to get these removed, perhaps at his own expense. But what good would that do you or your HOA?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/19/2022 5:09 PM
Max's recent 2 & 5: Your opinion to get rid of quorum (as my HOA did a few months ago) doesn't matter. It's a fact in Edward's HOA that quorum must be met. The only way to do that is to get out the votes.

Edward, twice--in '06 & '19 -- owners in my HOA campaigned hard and voted bad directors out and good directors in. It requires owners working hard.
You still have time before your election. What worked for us the first time was a memo to owners with a slate of three candidates- the # of openings-with their pics on it and their shared philosophy. These were US mailed to all Owners. Since by statute, your PM must give you a list of all owners, their primary addresses, and their email addy, etc. you still have time to send all an email (only 2 in my HOA of 200+ opted out of providing their email addy).

Max's recent 4. I'm glad he agrees with my above: Owners, not the board or the PM control the Annual Meeting. It IS a meeting of the members. Owners choose the presider.

I'm familiar with SB391/. What is your point about it, Edward??

Again, Edward how many spaces are up for election? Have you now read your election rules?

Max's recent 3. The water heater IS common area component, so the common area IS Affected. Wall penetration & plumbing were added to the common area closet for the director's personal washer & dryer. Yes, Edward, your attorney could probably sue the board to get these removed, perhaps at his own expense. But what good would that do you or your HOA?

You really are a piece of work!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Awww, thank you, Max.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdwardD4 on 07/19/2022 4:56 PM
Hello Max all viewers,

Last question on annual meetings/elections: What input can you offer to this civil code?

Civil Code § 5103. Election by Acclamation; Term Limits.

Notwithstanding the secret balloting requirement in Section 5100, or any contrary provision in the governing documents, when, as of the deadline for submitting nominations provided for in subdivision (a) of Section 5115, the number of qualified candidates is not more than the number of vacancies to be elected, as determined by the inspector or inspectors of the elections, the association may, but is not required to, consider the qualified candidates elected by acclamation if all of the following conditions have been met:

(a) The association has held a regular election for the directors in the last three years. The three-year time period shall be calculated from the date ballots were due in the last full election to the start of voting for the proposed election.

https://hoalaw.tinnellylaw.com/amp/ab-502-signed-board-elections-acclamation-california-hoas/

I have no issue with Election by Acclamation. I will tell you most HOA's will not follow the guidelines set for in §5103.Too much work, especially for those HOA's that are self-managed. There are almost 60,000 HOA's in California and conservatively 30,000 are self managed. We started a new company and looking to tap into that market. I done my research on the self managed HOA's and Edward, your issues with your HOA pale in comparison.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Hi Edward, this Civil Code was enacted for HOAs under 5,000 members quite recently. Your current election, however, cannot be election by acclamation because you have more candidates than openings. It does not apply to you this year. Because (a) applies to acclamation, it also doesn't apply to you.

(In Nov. last year our HOA for the 1st time in years, had the same # of candidates as openings, but we had to spend $ on sending ballots, counting them, etc. )
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Say, Edward, I keep nagging about Election Rules. Have you read yours yet? Did your HOA follow the below Law?

Civ. 5105 (g) "(B) A copy of the election operating rules. Delivery of the election operating rules may be accomplished by either of the following methods:

(i) Posting the election operating rules to an internet website and including the corresponding internet website address on the ballot together with the phrase, in at least 12-point font: “The rules governing this election may be found here:”

(ii) Individual delivery."

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