Truck with Slide in Camper-Classification Needed

RobertT, you can be issued a violation for a truck camper based on the restriction you posted. If you have to ask if your truck camper is grandfathered then it probably isn't.

18 years...time to get yourself something new. A big van- like a sprinter.

Robert a maintenance man does not have the power to say what is or isn't acceptable - at least in our complex. Also if this is one of the deadbeat, do nothing maintenance men you wrote about in one of your other posts; I would suspect his accuracy anyway. The BOD may not have been aware of your truck camper before or previous boards may not have chosen to pursue it but unless you have a written waiver the current BOD has the right to act on this. If you've received scores of notices in the past then this doesn't seem like selective enforcement.

Robert,
Suppose one of us would say to you, this is a clear case of targeting because you have had some trouble with your regime. How do you expect us to answer that on the information that you provide? How can you expect an answer and what would you do with this information? I'm curious? I would suggest you make your peace with your board and work that out, and you know as well as we, a camper is a campre, a maintainence man is not the place to turn to get answers like that. You also know a "grandfather clause" is just that. A clause wrtitten to allow you or someone to do what they have done in the past because the rules are changing. I suspect your documents state something to the effect that the failure of the association to enforce a written requirement in the documents does not forbid them from enforcing the requirement at any time. Standard stuff that goes in most CC&r's.

Wayne,

What do you know about the Sprinter is there a camper package?

Thanks

Also even if the maintenance man said it was OK, if you didn't get it in writing it doesn't count.

RobertT: To state that ..."It is obvious that they cannot all of a sudden make the owner remove it. The truck is Considered "Grandfathered in" makes no sense. If you were 'grandfathered in', have you received notice from the Board to that effect? Why have you now received another violation notice?

No, they are not picking on you, or harrassing you. The Board is fulfilling their responsibility in citing those who are in violation and going against what the legal documents state. They have a duty, as you, yourself have stated in your previous post, to ensure that all is being taken care of according to the documents--which means to alert residents to violations. It's not nice to hear, I understand. However, your conversation needs to take place with those in authority--the Board, not the maintenance man.

I only mentioned the Maintenance man because during the last 10 years I have heard on two occasions that first the Declaration does allow Trucks with Campers in the bed and Second that I have special permission.

I did now recall that I was tagged several years ago and it was decided that Trucks with campers on them are excluded from the definitions. Despite that fact there is a "statue of limitations" Law to any violation of the declaration and it is long past the time to impose a Violation.

I am being singled out to shut up.

You are kidding yourself if you think I am not being harassed based on my Petition organizing the community to Audit the current Management company and replace the Board of Directors.

Wayne brings up another good point; the "estoppal by laches defense", it was up to the Board to site me years ago and they have no right to come after me now.

I am indeed "Grandfathered in"

Paul you cite that I am not being Harassed by the board even though I have received 3 Citation letters in the mail of which two were Violations in the last week. All of this started when I attached my name to the "Mission Statement" for the Highline Fellows group as the author on our Web site.

Remember that the President authorized the Maintenance man to Rip the Petition box down and steal the petitions

If the president installed the wrong color windows in his Townhouse and is in Violation of the code. If he does not pick up the waste from his dog every night when he walks both of them. If he does not received a Violation notice and make the change of colors. We have a double standard.

I would say if I am getting letters about my Flower pots, Fire code violations and Truck in the parking lot that has been there for 18 years. All this during the last week.. Then we are talking about harassment considering that I never received any Violations over a 18 Year period.

Bob

RobertT, no one has the authority to "give you special permission" for something that violates the CC&Rs.

For permanent structures there is a 1 year timeframe in Colorado but since the truck camper is not a permanent fixture there is no statue of limitions.

You probably are being singled out because of your petition.

You are only grandfathered when the CC&Rs are amended and a grandfather clause was provided in the amendment and it applied to your situtation.

Roger,

That is the whole point is that I am not violating the CCR's because I donot have a recreational Vechicle. I have a Truck with a slide in Camper and that is why I have been able to keep my truck for so long without any Violation notices for 18 years.

I am going to take the " estoppal by laches defense" in this matter and if I do get stickered I will take the matter into the court system and contact the local authorities about being harrssed.

I am sick of these people thinking they can push anyone who trys to make a change or save money.

It's time for Change and Change will happen. We are in the process of getting a "Class Action Suit" against the mananagement company as others have been discriminated as well. We have a Lawyer.

We want to know were the money is going and why and we want them to show us the bill receipts. We want an Audit and a New Board of Directors that can save us money instead of throwing it away.

Jan, I was being light-hearted.

Back to being serious (grudgingly) -- I am looking at the title to this thread: "Truck with Slide in Camper-Classification Needed."

Though you may not use your "slide in" Camper as an RV, it is still classified as one, so, at least in our HOA, it would fall under the restriction.

We do have one gentleman here with one of those (my husband so kindly reminded me). But the reason I didn't think of it is because he keeps it in his garage. Apparently he modified his garage door a few years ago to fit it in. I think it cost something like $1200 (at least that's what my husband says). He didn't even wait until he got a letter and he didn't ask permission or whatever. He is apparently aware of the CC&R restriction against those types of vehicles and took a responsible approach from the day he brought it home.

Anyway, good luck to you on your other concerns with the Management Company and the board.

Hope none of this detracts from your holiday spirit. Have a good one. (and put that Sprinter on your list to Santa -- shshshshshhhhh -- I'm putting it on mine!)

RobertR1,
Are you the voice of experience or what? I'll bet in your younger days, you were a "Hoot" and still are. Everything that you said, I think that we have heard on this site. I think that we should put you "on call" to be our resident GO GIT UM GEORGIE. I love your looking at some of these situations thru the humor looking glass. Thanks, you make me chuckle.

Roger,

You are right about any legal action since we already have a lawsuit against this HOA for a slip and fall for 1 million dollars. I have looked at the numbers and they do not appear correct based on my observations.

We as a community have allowed this board to continue raising the dues year after year and the place still looks like it is being ran by a bunch of crack heads.

The bottom line is that our petition requires 151 votes by owners and we have 75 people that are past dues that don't qualify and half the residents are renters. The petition is just and right and follows the guidelines set forth in the declaration. We just need 298 members to act.

We know the way to saving this community money is by starting over at the bottom. "What does it cost to run this place before any management or insurance company or employee's get paid"

Now let's talk about extra's. Like a Quality and competent Management company who cares about how this place looks by using a little "TLC". Paint and repair is the answer in the short term and rebuilding can come later if we protect what we have instead of letting it self destruct.

Example: If you know the roofs are leaking and you are running around fixing the ceilings and walls in the units why not fix the problem. No... I am not saying spend 90K on a new roof.. I am saying get a crew in here to Hot Tar the roofs until we can afford to replace them one at a time... I am saying fix the problem instead of ignoring the cause.

Rome was not built in one day and it will take the next 10 years to fix this place up but we can do it. We must start with looking at out current spending and making some reasonable decisions.

How can we cut cost and fix the broken things then rebuild slowy over a period of time using our savings.

We know for example that the Loose Alluminum wiring in the townhomes is costing our community 164K per year because of previous fires.... but we say that's the townhome's owners responsibliltiy instead of stepping in and getting it fixed. It would save 100K per year if we could get back to the normal insurance cost.

Basic Mathematics in looking at the budget is like a Tree falling down and crashing because it doesn't add up..Wasteful spending is ear splitting and loud. We can easily cut cost and still have a wonderful community to be proud
of it we try.

Robert,
Don't tell anyone that I copied this for you. BUT!!!

Difference between a HOA and a POA may or may NOT have a difference. It could just be the same interchangeable term depending on state or other legal references originally used in your documentation.
If there is there is a difference then this is what it would be: A Homeowner's association is a corporation/business that was created by the developer/or maintained by the homeowners that is responsible for the maintenance of the common property which the homes are located on. The Homeowner's agree that EVERYONE has equal say or rights to the property they all share in the community.
A POA is: Property Owners Association. This means that their may or may NOT be a home located on the property the property owner owns. It is the piece of property itself that is maintained by ALL the owners. The properties may still work like common area with everyone sharing the rights or say in the operation/maintenance of the property.
Essentially, a HOA involves individual homeowners who must share the property around their homes, a POA involves the direct property with/without structures on it.
HOA/POA still may be For-Profit or Non-profit corporations. They don't have to be incorporated at all. They can have Convenants and & Restrictions or By-laws.

MicheleD,

Did the guy submit a ARC request to alter the exterior when he did the garage door, or did he violate one CCR to avoid violating another CCR?

Classification of the vehicle is always in need of clarification. Our Documents read that "IN event of a dispute as to the vehicles classification, the Official Florida TAG Registration and classification will be the determining factor as to the vehicles classification" That sounds easy.

Now, we have 2 Cadallac EXT's parked out overnight, against the Pick up truck covenant which requires them to be within the garages overnight.

One EXT is a 2002 which according to Cadallac is "the best of 2 worlds, - a PICK-UP TRUCK COMBINED WITH A SUV"

The second is a 2004 which Cadallac now describes as "Segmented" A SUV"

Both are IDENTICLE IN STYLE, SHAPE AND FEATURES. How is this enforced? We asked the Judge. Guess what, neither is a pickup truck. gO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT BECAUSE WE SURE COULDN"T. FLORIDA CLASSIFIED THEM AS PICKUP TRUCKS BUT THESE GUYS CHALLENGED ----AND WON.

Wayne,
The issue was following the CC&R's. It had nothing to do with any resident not being okay with trucks and if it would reduce property values. Liking it or not, NO pickup trucks were allowed out. The arguement in court was --'IS IT OR IS IT NOT A PICKUP TRUCK?
Most of our residents had absolutely no issues with these truck/SUVs or whatever you want to call them. We had one Smart A** Lawyer resident who pointed it out to the Board, demanded that we enforce on them and when we did not act fast enough, she threatened to sue the BOD for not doing our fiducary duty. AND----she said that because she was an attorney, she could outlast us(the Board) Okay, now where did the Board have much of a choice. We are required in Florida to go to Mediation--went twice--and that did not work so off to court we went.

Moral of the story is, make sure that you are okay with all of your CC&Rs before the Developer gives you your turnover. It was right at turnover that this started so we did not have any time to amend the covenant on trucks.

Wayne,
It is amazing what a hot button this issue became in the community. We have 565 homes and need 2/3rds to pass an amendment or 373 votes to pass an amendment change. We have 3 Boards(sub assoc's) and 1 Master Association. That is 20 Board positions. (5 each & the Master) We took sort of a straw poll and guess what. The truck amendment will never pass and right now we believe mostly because these 2 truck guys caused so much anger and side taking in the community. Maybe when we get enough of the earlier residents changed to a different mind set but for now, it will never pass.

DJ1:

He didn't need to submit a request to alter the height or even the color of his garage door. (I believe he also painted it.)

Our CC&Rs don't require approval of those types of changes unless they are going to change the footprint of the home on the lot. (I.e., a deck, a patio, a shed, an in-ground pool, a fence, a pond, etc.)

Jan:

Our CC&Rs would not classify the Sprinter as either an RV OR a commercial vehicle. The only time it would fall into the commercial vehicle category is if: 1) they applied lettering/signage to the exterior or windows, or 2) if they attached ladder racks and/or PVC pipe carriers to the roof.

Otherwise, it's not an issue.

Maintenance men giving approvals, 18 year old vehicles still running, man, this one is like out of the Twilight Zone. I'd say listen to RogerB on this, everything he said is correct as far as I know. But if not, go for the Sprinter....

Yeah, I don't think I could live in one too restrictive.

We read the CC&Rs very carefully before we moved in. It was a new subdivision in a part of town that historically was considered "blue collar" and which never really had any "restrictions" before.

We think they are pretty fair and not too intrusive/restrictive beyond what will maintain our property values. We were tired of living on streets where people could literally hang engine blocks from trees and work on a variety of old cars as a "hobby."

But if you ask some of the people who manage to violate what moderate restrictions we have, you would think we are asking them to check with us every time they need to use the bathroom!