Stepping down from Officer Role but staying on the Board

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

As you know, we had a resignation over the weekend. Board member resigned her position as Secretary but is staying on the Board as an at-large. I'm a little confounded by this. We have 5 Board members and 4 officer positions (Pres, VP, Treas, Sec). Thus, in the most equitable distribution of work, we would have 4 Board members holding Officer roles and one Board member as an at-large. By resigning as Sec., I had to insist that someone else either take on two Officer roles (which really isn't equitable), or that the other At-Large Director step up to take on an Officer position. That really put our Board in a bit of a bind.

It doesn't seem right to me that a person can simply refuse to do any work as an Officer but then remain on the Board. I get that it's allowed per the by-laws, but how is that contributing to the proper function of our Association? Bottom line is it is not.

I'm opposed to the former Secretary taking on any roles due to her inability to actually complete and follow through with the work that she says she will do. But since he wants to stay on as a Director, she is filling a spot on the Board that could be filled by someone who has more time to put into the Board.

Any suggestions for how to respond to a Board member who wants nothing to do with any Officer role but decides they want to stay on the Board?

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

What about the at-large Board Member that existed before the Secretary resigned her Officer role? Hopefully you have had and will continue to have as much issue with their existence on the Board as you do with the Secretary that resigned as Secretary. Or is that situation different for some reason?
Perhaps you have a Secretary and a vice Secretary Officer position, and they can take turns doing minutes.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

I guess the rub is this:

When we initially decided Officer positions, we sat down as a group and decided who would be each of the 4 Officer positions and who would be the At-Large. During that conversation, there was a bit of reluctance among two Board members to step forward (both wanted to be at-large) but eventually they figured it out. It was decided as a group.

By the Secretary stepping down, she made a unilateral decision that she would be the at-large position and thus someone else had to take over her Officer role. This wasn't decided a a group, but rather in a unilateral fashion. I don't think that was right for her to take a coveted role (at-large) without deciding as a group on the new positions.

I think this is more a team etiquette question than a by-law/CC&R question.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 6:32 AM
I guess the rub is this:

When we initially decided Officer positions, we sat down as a group and decided who would be each of the 4 Officer positions and who would be the At-Large. During that conversation, there was a bit of reluctance among two Board members to step forward (both wanted to be at-large) but eventually they figured it out. It was decided as a group.

By the Secretary stepping down, she made a unilateral decision that she would be the at-large position and thus someone else had to take over her Officer role. This wasn't decided a a group, but rather in a unilateral fashion. I don't think that was right for her to take a coveted role (at-large) without deciding as a group on the new positions.

I think this is more a team etiquette question than a by-law/CC&R question.

In order to get a better understanding of where you are coming from, how many hours per week do you believe all Board members should be willing to put in?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 07/11/2022 7:11 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 6:32 AM
I guess the rub is this:

When we initially decided Officer positions, we sat down as a group and decided who would be each of the 4 Officer positions and who would be the At-Large. During that conversation, there was a bit of reluctance among two Board members to step forward (both wanted to be at-large) but eventually they figured it out. It was decided as a group.

By the Secretary stepping down, she made a unilateral decision that she would be the at-large position and thus someone else had to take over her Officer role. This wasn't decided a a group, but rather in a unilateral fashion. I don't think that was right for her to take a coveted role (at-large) without deciding as a group on the new positions.

I think this is more a team etiquette question than a by-law/CC&R question.

In order to get a better understanding of where you are coming from, how many hours per week do you believe all Board members should be willing to put in?

I think that each Board member should do the following as the basic requirement to be part of our Board:

1) Prepare for the monthly meeting (~1 hour per month)
2) Attend the monthly meeting (~1.5 hours per month)
3) Prepare meeting minutes OR prepare Treasurer's report (whichever their role is) - ~1.5 hours per month)
4) Read and reply to occasional Board e-mails (~1 hour per month)

So my minimum expectation of the Treasurer and the Secretary is to contribute approximately 5 hours per month of personal time for the Association. The VP and the At-Large would only need to contribute 3.5 hours per month as they do not have a task related to their office to complete each month.

I expect that the Secretary and the Treasurer will do a good job without reminders from me, as we are all adults and should be able to deliver on what we commit ourselves to do.

In addition to the work above, our Board has a number of other tasks that need to be completed: Landscaping coordinator, capital improvement project coordinator, compliance & rules enforcement coordinator, small dollar maintenance coordinator, as well as individual roles for a variety of special projects that we take on. Each of these take between 1 - 30 hours per month of time, and I expect anyone who volunteers for these roles will do a good job without reminders from me.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 7:30 AM

Posted By JohnT38 on 07/11/2022 7:11 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 6:32 AM
I guess the rub is this:

When we initially decided Officer positions, we sat down as a group and decided who would be each of the 4 Officer positions and who would be the At-Large. During that conversation, there was a bit of reluctance among two Board members to step forward (both wanted to be at-large) but eventually they figured it out. It was decided as a group.

By the Secretary stepping down, she made a unilateral decision that she would be the at-large position and thus someone else had to take over her Officer role. This wasn't decided a a group, but rather in a unilateral fashion. I don't think that was right for her to take a coveted role (at-large) without deciding as a group on the new positions.

I think this is more a team etiquette question than a by-law/CC&R question.

In order to get a better understanding of where you are coming from, how many hours per week do you believe all Board members should be willing to put in?

I think that each Board member should do the following as the basic requirement to be part of our Board:

1) Prepare for the monthly meeting (~1 hour per month)
2) Attend the monthly meeting (~1.5 hours per month)
3) Prepare meeting minutes OR prepare Treasurer's report (whichever their role is) - ~1.5 hours per month)
4) Read and reply to occasional Board e-mails (~1 hour per month)

So my minimum expectation of the Treasurer and the Secretary is to contribute approximately 5 hours per month of personal time for the Association. The VP and the At-Large would only need to contribute 3.5 hours per month as they do not have a task related to their office to complete each month.

I expect that the Secretary and the Treasurer will do a good job without reminders from me, as we are all adults and should be able to deliver on what we commit ourselves to do.

In addition to the work above, our Board has a number of other tasks that need to be completed: Landscaping coordinator, capital improvement project coordinator, compliance & rules enforcement coordinator, small dollar maintenance coordinator, as well as individual roles for a variety of special projects that we take on. Each of these take between 1 - 30 hours per month of time, and I expect anyone who volunteers for these roles will do a good job without reminders from me.

That sounds reasonable. Have you ever specifically discussed these requirements with all Board members in a FACE to FACE meeting? If you have then the problem is either your Board members themselves or your management style rubs them the wrong way.

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 5:04 AM
As you know, we had a resignation over the weekend. Board member resigned her position as Secretary but is staying on the Board as an at-large. I'm a little confounded by this. We have 5 Board members and 4 officer positions (Pres, VP, Treas, Sec). Thus, in the most equitable distribution of work, we would have 4 Board members holding Officer roles and one Board member as an at-large. By resigning as Sec., I had to insist that someone else either take on two Officer roles (which really isn't equitable), or that the other At-Large Director step up to take on an Officer position. That really put our Board in a bit of a bind.

It doesn't seem right to me that a person can simply refuse to do any work as an Officer but then remain on the Board. I get that it's allowed per the by-laws, but how is that contributing to the proper function of our Association? Bottom line is it is not.

I'm opposed to the former Secretary taking on any roles due to her inability to actually complete and follow through with the work that she says she will do. But since he wants to stay on as a Director, she is filling a spot on the Board that could be filled by someone who has more time to put into the Board.

Any suggestions for how to respond to a Board member who wants nothing to do with any Officer role but decides they want to stay on the Board?

I think you simply need to stop agonizing over it. The only thing a board member really needs to do is show up for board meetings, carefully consider questions before the board, and vote in a rational manner. My guess is your bylaws do not require that officers, other than president, be directors. So look for a volunteer from the community who is willing to step up and perform the secretary's duties.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 972

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 5:04 AM
As you know, we had a resignation over the T. Board member resigned her position as Secretary but is staying on the Board as an at-large. I'm a little confounded by this. We have 5 Board members and 4 officer positions (Pres, VP, Treas, Sec). Thus, in the most equitable distribution of work, we would have 4 Board members holding Officer roles and one Board member as an at-large. By resigning as Sec., I had to insist that someone else either take on two Officer roles (which really isn't equitable), or that the other At-Large Director step up to take on an Officer position. That really put our Board in a bit of a bind.

It doesn't seem right to me that a person can simply refuse to do any work as an Officer but then remain on the Board. I get that it's allowed per the by-laws, but how is that contributing to the proper function of our Association? Bottom line is it is not.

I'm opposed to the former Secretary taking on any roles due to her inability to actually complete and follow through with the work that she says she will do. But since he wants to stay on as a Director, she is filling a spot on the Board that could be filled by someone who has more time to put into the Board.

Any suggestions for how to respond to a Board member who wants nothing to do with any Officer role but decides they want to stay on the Board?

Do you actually have a new person ready to step onto your Board and take over as Secretary?

It kinda sounds to me like the ex-Secretary is doing this just to cheese you off. Sorry, but it does.

Is there any other way you could shuffle the Officer assignments around so that they’re all filled? Ie, you take over as Secretary, the other At-Large Director takes over as President?

If I recall correctly, it’s typically difficult to remove a Director, requiring a majority vote of the Members. Or (sometimes) missing 3 Board meetings in a term. Or (in Texas) proof of conviction of a “Crime of Moral Turpitude” in the past 20 years. (Thanks and a tip o’ the hat to AugustinD for that one).

Here’s a thought: a sincere apology + asking them to be Sec again?

BillD

PS: https://versustexas.com/blog/crimes-of-moral-turpitude-texas/

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Michael

Consider combining Officer positions such as VP and Treasurer. VP and Secretary. As I understand it you cannot combine Pres and Sec but others can be combined.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Having served on the Board in my HOA for 14 years, there was never a time that we did not have deadwood directors bench warmers. This Board has 7 members, but the required commercial owner director never attends meetings. The other six have over time, and among them, there always are 1-2 who contribute almost nothing.

At present there are 3 who do 90% of the work. Among the other 3, 1 long-termer occasionally contributes important points at meetings, but has no assignments. A second who's on an important committee but is pretty silent at board meetings. A 3rd, a director now for 9 months, is useless so far as I can tell.

I have long believed that in your HOA, MichaelT, you need a PM who puts in more hours with your assn.

I've suggested previously that you meeting with this director over coffee and determine though gentle interviewing what her interests are, i.e., what her reason are for serving. Have you met with her? IMO, a good leader would do that.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/11/2022 9:54 AM
Having served on the Board in my HOA for 14 years, there was never a time that we did not have deadwood directors bench warmers. This Board has 7 members, but the required commercial owner director never attends meetings. The other six have over time, and among them, there always are 1-2 who contribute almost nothing.

At present there are 3 who do 90% of the work. Among the other 3, 1 long-termer occasionally contributes important points at meetings, but has no assignments. A second who's on an important committee but is pretty silent at board meetings. A 3rd, a director now for 9 months, is useless so far as I can tell.

I have long believed that in your HOA, MichaelT, you need a PM who puts in more hours with your assn.

I've suggested previously that you meeting with this director over coffee and determine though gentle interviewing what her interests are, i.e., what her reason are for serving. Have you met with her? IMO, a good leader would do that.

I think you are exactly right about increasing the amount of hours the PM is contracted for. Based on what Michael has written there is no one else to step up. That means as soon as Michael rolls off the Board all of the progress he has made will be undone.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 07/11/2022 6:32 AM
...

I think this is more a team etiquette question than a by-law/CC&R question.

Is it "team etiquette" to intentionally single out a relatively new member of the team for not accomplishing a task?

This is an easy fix. You've got plenty of money and writing meeting minutes is a simple, well-defined task. Find another HOA volunteer to do it or pay someone to do it.

I'd be happy to do it for you too; my rate is $500/hr. I also offer durable good storage for a fair price; would happily develop a HOA website; and can shatter some knee-caps to assist with collection of unpaid late fees from delinquents.