JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
Can HOA Board meet without PMC present? Is it legal in CA?
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JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
How is PM excluded from Executive session to discuss PM shoddy performance?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the Board, Jackie? Though awkward, your Board should be able to meet in executive session about your PM's work performance. There certainly is. no law about this.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieB4 on 07/10/2022 1:15 PM
Can HOA Board meet without PMC present? Is it legal in CA?
Can HOA Board meet without PMC present? Is it legal in CA?
The board can do whatever they damn well please in regards to the PMC, including fire them without cause. Too many HOA's have been cowed into believing they work for the property manager, not the other way around.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I was on Board(several years) about 15 years ago. Thoroughly disgusted with the past 6 years of this PM Management, I am rerunning; No surprise, they recently screwed up on mailing election ballots, so BOD elections are now delayed and awaiting new ballots to be mailed. OMG!!
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I was on Board(several years) about 15 years ago. Thoroughly disgusted with the past 6 years of this PM Management, I am rerunning; No surprise, they recently screwed up on mailing election ballots, so BOD elections are now delayed and awaiting new ballots to be mailed. OMG!!
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I was on Board(several years) about 15 years ago. Thoroughly disgusted with the past 6 years of this PM Management, I am rerunning; No surprise, they recently screwed up on mailing election ballots, so BOD elections are now delayed and awaiting new ballots to be mailed. OMG!!
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
I know PM works for us, not vice versa, but prefer to discuss with new BOD (hopefully I will be on it) and not have current PM be on alert, until evaluation/decision is made. How to call executive meeting without PM aware???
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I agree with the BOD's ability to do whatever....but how does a BOD member call a BOD mtg only, without putting PM on notice that their contract is on thin ice?
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieB4 on 07/10/2022 4:29 PM
I agree with the BOD's ability to do whatever....but how does a BOD member call a BOD mtg only, without putting PM on notice that their contract is on thin ice?
I agree with the BOD's ability to do whatever....but how does a BOD member call a BOD mtg only, without putting PM on notice that their contract is on thin ice?
Ah...well, that would probably be difficult if not impossible. But I don't see any problem with the PM knowing their contract is in jeopardy.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
Complicated, yes!! but how to uninvite PM to exectutive mtg?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 07/10/2022 3:43 PM
Posted By JackieB4 on 07/10/2022 1:15 PM
Can HOA Board meet without PMC present? Is it legal in CA?
Can HOA Board meet without PMC present? Is it legal in CA?
The board can do whatever they damn well please in regards to the PMC, including fire them without cause. Too many HOA's have been cowed into believing they work for the property manager, not the other way around.
No, PM's DO NOT work for the boards, they work for the association. Too many board think it is the other way around.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Jackie
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill over this.
Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH:MM PM.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend.
The Secretary of the Association will take and publish the minutes of the meeting.
That is all you need do. If the PMC rears up on its high horse and provides notice of termination, so be it.
I am not familiar with California HOA processes as I have been gone from the state for 25 years. In Texas, since this conversation would (possibly) take place in Executive Session, we would simply issue a notice to the owners stating there will be a meeting of the Board on this date and time. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the meeting will be called to order and will immediately adjourn to Executive Session. A summary of the decisions reached, if any, will be distributed to the members of the Association in the usual manner.
As a Board, We have also had such conversations as the last item on the agenda in a regular meeting of the Board. When we reach that agenda item, we simply ask the PM/PMC to leave the meeting and thank them for coming.
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill over this.
Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH:MM PM.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend.
The Secretary of the Association will take and publish the minutes of the meeting.
That is all you need do. If the PMC rears up on its high horse and provides notice of termination, so be it.
I am not familiar with California HOA processes as I have been gone from the state for 25 years. In Texas, since this conversation would (possibly) take place in Executive Session, we would simply issue a notice to the owners stating there will be a meeting of the Board on this date and time. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the meeting will be called to order and will immediately adjourn to Executive Session. A summary of the decisions reached, if any, will be distributed to the members of the Association in the usual manner.
As a Board, We have also had such conversations as the last item on the agenda in a regular meeting of the Board. When we reach that agenda item, we simply ask the PM/PMC to leave the meeting and thank them for coming.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 07/10/2022 6:23 PM
Jackie
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill over this.
Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH:MM PM.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend.
The Secretary of the Association will take and publish the minutes of the meeting.
That is all you need do. If the PMC rears up on its high horse and provides notice of termination, so be it.
I am not familiar with California HOA processes as I have been gone from the state for 25 years. In Texas, since this conversation would (possibly) take place in Executive Session, we would simply issue a notice to the owners stating there will be a meeting of the Board on this date and time. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the meeting will be called to order and will immediately adjourn to Executive Session. A summary of the decisions reached, if any, will be distributed to the members of the Association in the usual manner.
As a Board, We have also had such conversations as the last item on the agenda in a regular meeting of the Board. When we reach that agenda item, we simply ask the PM/PMC to leave the meeting and thank them for coming.
Jackie
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill over this.
Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH:MM PM.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend.
The Secretary of the Association will take and publish the minutes of the meeting.
That is all you need do. If the PMC rears up on its high horse and provides notice of termination, so be it.
I am not familiar with California HOA processes as I have been gone from the state for 25 years. In Texas, since this conversation would (possibly) take place in Executive Session, we would simply issue a notice to the owners stating there will be a meeting of the Board on this date and time. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the meeting will be called to order and will immediately adjourn to Executive Session. A summary of the decisions reached, if any, will be distributed to the members of the Association in the usual manner.
As a Board, We have also had such conversations as the last item on the agenda in a regular meeting of the Board. When we reach that agenda item, we simply ask the PM/PMC to leave the meeting and thank them for coming.
I didn’t say the PM works for the board. I said they work for the HOA.
Which is why the association’s BOD is free to exclude the PM from their meetings.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I appreciated each of the responses. My favorite was having the conversation on the agenda/regular meeting and ask them/PM to leave.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieB4 on 07/10/2022 9:02 PM
I appreciated each of the responses. My favorite was having the conversation on the agenda/regular meeting and ask them/PM to leave.
I appreciated each of the responses. My favorite was having the conversation on the agenda/regular meeting and ask them/PM to leave.
The discussion about the PM's contract should not be in open session. Simply end the meeting with a call for the BOD and the BOD alone to enter into an Executive Session. End of problem.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With JohnC, do not have the conversation about the MC & PM in open session. It's an executive session matter. In CA, the Board may adjourn th epode meeting to n meet in ES, but I think it's far more typical that Executive session is an entirely separate meeting.
BillH's suggestion is the most appropriate in CA: "Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH...
The purpose of the[executive session] is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend. "
You need to post the executive session 2 days in advance in CA.
Why not check back with us again after the election? Right now, it seems that your concern are premature? Or do I misunderstand? Meanwhile, I think you need to familiarize yourself with current CA statutes about meetings, etc. Visit Davis-stirling.com. their index has everything on that can help you get up to date.
BillH's suggestion is the most appropriate in CA: "Simply send the PM/PMC a note stating that the Board will hold a meeting on MM/DD/YY at HH...
The purpose of the[executive session] is to discuss the contract with the PMC. As such, the Board does not wish for the PM or a representative of the PMC to attend. "
You need to post the executive session 2 days in advance in CA.
Why not check back with us again after the election? Right now, it seems that your concern are premature? Or do I misunderstand? Meanwhile, I think you need to familiarize yourself with current CA statutes about meetings, etc. Visit Davis-stirling.com. their index has everything on that can help you get up to date.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I love this dialogue and appreciate the opposing comments. All food for thought!! Agree, Davis Stirling is an epic site and constantly refer to it. Yes, misunderstanding might prevail here but no harm done. I was on our BOD over a decade ago and expect to again be elected soon, if the current PM of 6 years can get the ballots sent in a timely manner?? I never wait until the last minute to educate/update myself. As an FYI, the reason having "contracts" as an open meeting agenda item it would provide a option for homeowners to voice issues they had with prior PM. Then F/U with executive session an another time.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Having served on a CA HOA board for many years, I do not think it will help your HOA at all to have an agenda items about the current MC & PM occur during an open meeting. Owners can, after all in CA, comment about the PM or MC at any time during a Board meeting during open forum. As an Owner, do you participate in th eiopne forum about the PM or election problems?
CA Election Rules requirements changed drastically in 1/20. It's taken some CA HOA boards & their MCs some time to adhere to the ridiculous deadlines in this legislation. Do you have Election Rules? When were they last updated?
CA Election Rules requirements changed drastically in 1/20. It's taken some CA HOA boards & their MCs some time to adhere to the ridiculous deadlines in this legislation. Do you have Election Rules? When were they last updated?
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
My HOA of 140 homeowners are clueless on how to connect with BOD/PM. The meeting times are never consistent and the location changes; LOL "do you participate...?" The BOD/PM meet bimonthly and often have given me the incorrect zoom ID or "oops, just saw your EM or text message."
90% of the time I am the only member zooming or actually attending the meeting. This is not a User-friendly group; it is time for a serious change and I hope to be part of it.
90% of the time I am the only member zooming or actually attending the meeting. This is not a User-friendly group; it is time for a serious change and I hope to be part of it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In CA, HOAs must post meeting times/place/dates in a public place 72 hours before the open board meeting. You're saying, Jackie, that your Board never does that?
Do you have a copy of the CA- required Election Rules specific to your HOA??
Do you have a copy of the CA- required Election Rules specific to your HOA??
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
Nope. Never said that.They post 72 hrs to the minute but the time and place of bimonthly meeting vary. Many are at work or leaving for home (freeways).
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
When was law changed? Last I checked , it was 96 hours, to the minute.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Uh, oh, I've made this error previously. Yes, it's 96 hours, i.e., 4 days ahead of open meetings that the notice and agenda are required to be posted. So, if Jackie's HOA is posting only 72 hours in advance, they are not complying with state laws.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posts: 398
Posted:
I should have done the math! They post usually Friday morning and hold meeting sometime Tues? What's the harm in posting (every 2 months)
5-6 days prior mtg??
5-6 days prior mtg??
NormanK2 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posts: 39
Posted:
The park we are in has a Social Committee person that has no ownership but a girlfriend of one of the owner's she is also in charge over our Clubhouse she's appointed by the President of the HOA.If we the owners of the park want to use the Clubhouse she has to give us the rights to use it.This is such BS !! Now i know why we heard so much about why people hate HOA'S. But at 75 to Old to move out, just another Bad mistake.
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