Pool is out of control

Started by BillD16 • 18 replies • 493 views

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BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Yet another "I searched but everything was old and dated" kind of query.

Our neighborhood pool has become a 'problem'. 600 detached single family homes, 1 pool, it's summer. It's a nice pool - it's the major amenity in the neighborhood - with a small gatehouse that includes M/F bathrooms and showers. The pool itself is surrounded by a fence, there's a "key fob" system to control entry. There's a video surveillance system (of questionable utility).

This summer we've been keeping the pool open even though we don't have lifeguards. And maybe that's the reason we're having a *lot* of trouble controlling pool access. We've got rules about 'pool parties', but this past weekend someone just ignored all that and threw a big party and made a big mess. There was alcohol. There were glass containers. There was rude behavior and loud music. There were used condoms found in one of the bathrooms. Thankfully, there was no broken glass. We have a PMC but they've been no help.

We can look at the "key fob" system records and try to figure out who was there - but all afternoon there were people holding the door open and letting 4 or 8 people in at a time. It's going to be extremely tedious to try to figure out who was responsible.

So:

a) we're desperately looking into getting lifeguards. There's a long story about how that ball got dropped but I won't go into it here.

b) we're pondering hiring a security guard.

c) we're pondering moving to a system that uses colored bracelets in addition to the "key fob", to try to limit guests to 2 per family.

d) we're bracing ourselves for this upcoming July 4th weekend.

Thoughts / ideas / experiences from anyone on this kind of thing?

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

My initial thought is security cameras

It will be easier to identify the actual issue and who might be causing it.

MarkR21 (North Carolina)
Posts: 710

Posted:

Close pool down and inform everyone it’s only open if there is someone working there. Then quickly hire or ask for volunteers

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Bill

We live in an HOA in Collin County with 9,300 homes in the master association.

Pool entry (actually any association amenity or event) is closely managed by hiring an admission staff.

Association admission rules require positive identification for admission such as a DL with an association address, an association issued ID, or a guest pass. The guest passes are closely managed and limited in number per property in the association. The guest cannot be admitted without the sponsor.

The access gate is observed by security to ensure there is no tailgating. Observed means the security personnel are within 20 feet of the gate.

I know the cost for this process will be a significantly larger percentage of a 600 home association budget than it is for ours, you may be able to adapt some of what is done in our association to your issues.

Keep in mind the fallout, such as a drowning or injury, from an unauthorized event which took place at your pool could be significantly more costly than hiring staff to manage pool access.

LisaB21 (Texas)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Call a pool management company in your area for lifeguards and they handle guest sign in as well. We have gate access system that all homeowners have to register for for access devise, then they also sign in at the desk. Limit of 2 guests per household at any visit. Lifeguards also do hourly chemical checks and keep the restrooms cleaned and stocked, and trash cans all emptied and trash set out on collection days. Its expensive but well worth it.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Isn't Texas experiencing a worker shortage like many states in the Country? This has impacted city pools. No lifeguards means some city pools have not opened this season or offers limited hours. It's not just pools. Worker shortages have impacted just about every aspect of our lives here in Nebraska.

I would close the pool for now. Or at least until some reliable help can be hired and good luck with that this year.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Unrelated to the pool parties, but I'm thinking your pool is behind the times. You are missing the "family" bathroom.

I probably shouldn't write more since I don't want to get banned....

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Jeez, MichaelT, get a little praise and then step in it ... again.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BancsS on 07/01/2022 6:11 PM
Isn't Texas experiencing a worker shortage like many states in the Country? This has impacted city pools. No lifeguards means some city pools have not opened this season or offers limited hours. It's not just pools. Worker shortages have impacted just about every aspect of our lives here in Nebraska.

I would close the pool for now. Or at least until some reliable help can be hired and good luck with that this year.

Yes, this is a big issue for us. Our PMC asked for bids from 7 lifeguard providers. Only 1 bothered to respond. Many city pools are closed.

Closing the pool is a non-starter, I'm afraid. Believe me, I've considered it; I've raised two kids and the entire "if you can't take care of your toys properly, then I'm taking your toys away" argument is no stranger. But the pool is the one amenity in the neighborhood that people count on, and too many people know where I live.

Some of the suggestions people have made are interesting. I am not crazy about the notion of tightly controlling access, but it's probably what we need right now. The 9300 home setup that BillH mentions blows my mind - but after some of the video I've watched today, I understand the need for that kind of access control. Apologies for venting: some people are just freakin' pigs and ruin it for the majority of us who will take responsibility and clean up our messes, follow rules (especially when they make sense, like "no glass in the pool area", etc.

Another aspect is that our PMC has been remarkably unhelpful. I was optimistic earlier this year, but as time has progressed, I've noticed: they simply aren't there for us at the times when we need them. And I mean that literally re the pool: the PMC is closed on Friday afternoons, weekends, and holidays. Which is when the pool gets the most use. I'm not certain that any other PMC will be any better. But at the very least, it's a point we can use to measure prospective PMCs when we talk to them, ie, "will you give us high-quality after-hours support on Fridays, weekends, and holidays?" And if they say "no", then we walk.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

Does PMC mean property manager company? Is the pool on Association property? Then the property management company is not fulfilling its contract to manage. I would look at the PMC contract and get them on board, I would install security cameras in the area, the Board needs to send out to all owners, a letter as to what happened and what steps the Board will be taking to preserve the health and safety of all who use the pool. The Board needs temporarily close the pool to determine the extent the damage to the pool area and test the pool water. I would recommend this step each time there is a "large" out-of-control" pool party.

Many owners would be very upset that the pool is temporarily closed and therefore may be willing to help.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

BillD

Have you considered a "Pool Monitor program" staffed by owners?

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelS56 on 07/02/2022 4:47 AM
Does PMC mean property manager company? Is the pool on Association property? Then the property management company is not fulfilling its contract to manage. I would look at the PMC contract and get them on board, I would install security cameras in the area, the Board needs to send out to all owners, a letter as to what happened and what steps the Board will be taking to preserve the health and safety of all who use the pool. The Board needs temporarily close the pool to determine the extent the damage to the pool area and test the pool water. I would recommend this step each time there is a "large" out-of-control" pool party.

Many owners would be very upset that the pool is temporarily closed and therefore may be willing to help.

I doubt the management contract requires the management company to babysit the pool. Even if you have an onsite manager, they aren't there to check IDs at the gate and they aren't there 24/7.

Frankly I am sick and tired of being blamed for every single thing every resident of a community does. Property managers manage the physical property, we don't have any magical ability to control the behavior of every person within those boundaries.

The people who are behaving badly are responsible for their own bad behavior.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 07/02/2022 5:56 PM
The people who are behaving badly are responsible for their own bad behavior.

Absolutely true.

I've mentioned that our pool has a video surveillance setup. I rarely use it, and part of that is because whenever I *do* use it, I can feel my basic faith & trust in humanity begin to slough away. I've seen some 'stuff'. Not murders, just ... someone will report something, it's serious enough that it's worth taking a look (ie, "someone pooped in the pool" or "someone stole my keys") ... and invariably when I look, I discover that the person reporting the incident has been less-than-honest about what happened. It's never something that would land someone in jail for perjury - but I've learned to be extremely skeptical when people 'report' incidents to me. Part of it is my ADHD nature: when words and actions begin to vary from each other, it's not a good feeling.

And to Barbara's point: I've seen some people do some shameful stuff. I've seen some people let their *kids* get away with some shameful stuff, too.

To be clear, I don't expect our PMC to run security at our pool. But they really are notably absent when a pool issue arises, and more basic than that, they dropped the ball on hiring lifeguards (I know this year has been tough, but still), they seemed to forget that when our Porter service quit, we needed to hire someone else. Even basic stuff like making sure the pool is open on holidays is forgotten until too late.

I'm unsure if there are PMCs out there who *will* provide the higher standard of service that we need. I'm sure it will cost more. But the pool is the one thing in my neighborhood that is (IMHO) worth the expense.

At this point, we're hoping we can negotiate some lifeguards for the rest of the Summer. *fingers crossed*

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Lifeguards should be there to watch the pool to ensure people stay safe, so it may be a bit much to have them monitor the chemical makeup of the water,keep the restrooms clean and all that.

You'll probably have the pool open for July 4 and I know Texas tends to get...really warm between now and September (or October?), but if people are trying to recreate a "Lord of the flies" vibe, I think you may have o take Mark's suggestion and shut the place down until the board can get enough people to monitor the pool. Tell the homeowners what's going on and why - I might even be inclined to show still photos of some of the more repulsive behavior and offer rewards for information that results in the culprits being discovered. Issue stiff fines for those people, and perhaps consider suspending their access for the rest of the summer.

As for everyone else, one idea that may fix this would be to restrict access to residents only for the next month or so. I don't care if people whine "that's not fair" - it's true that it isn't fun for those who comply with the rules to suffer because of others who don't know or care how to act right, but part of the reason things have gotten crazy is because people saw it and did nothing.

Ultimately, the homeowners must understand they need to be responsible for themselves and their behavior, along with the behavior of their guests. That will make life more tolerable for everyone.

I know this sounds gangster, but I've spoken about the mayhem our community faced when we had our pool and sometimes drastic action is necessary to drive home the point. In fact, I recall one year we closed it for nearly two weeks because (1) someone pissed in the pool and it had to be cleaned and (2) bad behavior prompted our pool monitor to shut it down (he was an off duty cop and we gave him that authority). After that, things did calm down. Everything you're going through is precisely why we got tired of it and the related costs, said the hell with it, petitioned the homeowners to vote to shut it down and they did. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quite honestly, you need a security guard at the pool. Lifeguards are very hard to find right now, even guards that want to work are hard to find.
I just had a guy quit after two hours of training to work a gatehouse on graves where they will probably check-in six cars tops in an eight hour shift.
one alternative is to call theses clowns bluff and close the pool for two weeks and stay firm. knock off the crap head sheet and the pool will reopen.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bill

Threaten to close the pool if owners do not step forward and form a volunteer pool watcher group. No volunteer, pool not open.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 07/03/2022 2:21 PM
Quite honestly, you need a security guard at the pool. Lifeguards are very hard to find right now, even guards that want to work are hard to find.
I just had a guy quit after two hours of training to work a gatehouse on graves where they will probably check-in six cars tops in an eight hour shift.
one alternative is to call theses clowns bluff and close the pool for two weeks and stay firm. knock off the crap head sheet and the pool will reopen.

Perhaps not an actual security guard, but there’s a general consensus that we need to have some kind of ‘authority figure’ at the pool, whether it be a lifeguard, ‘monitor’, security guard, or what have you. Probably not all of the time, but Fridays, weekends, and holidays, from noon to 8pm. Maybe.

On the bright side: I’m very happy that our new Board managed to produce and publish a statement about the pool situation to the neighborhood. It doesn’t solve the problem, but at least it lets the neighborhood know that we’re paying attention. It may not seem like much, but a) we did it in just a few days, and b) it’s an improvement over how things have gone during the past few years, where there’d be a problem and it seemed like the Board ran away.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Best way to clear out a pool? Find a fake piece of poo and toss it in... Mr. Hanky never had so much fun!

Former HOA President

HelenL2
Posts: 7

Posted:

We have a similar situation. No cameras, and no one paid to man the pool--no money for it. (Funny how, when flowers got dug up and stolen, signs and cameras went up immediately on the flower beds.) Fob access, and you're allowed 4 guests per household. Management office is 70 miles away and can't give us any suggestions, other than us interested members keeping an eye on things. Trespassers jump the fence, and some residents kids open the gate for whoever shows up.

One of our board members offered to monitor the pool--for no payment--at the busy times. Well, that lasted one day. A resident's teens brought a potty mouthed guest, and I was there as she was warned twice. On the third offense the group was told to leave for the day. Kids come back with crazy screaming stepmom; police were called; police refused to do anything as it was between the residents, and they said "Ya know, McKinney Pool Party, we're outta here."

We even had someone try to burn down our bathhouse last year, and pool was closed for 3 weeks. Board kept everything quiet I don't think it even got reported or investigated. I'm sure it would have been cheaper to install cameras than to pay for the repairs.

Good luck!

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