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MichaelP23 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hi All-
I'm the President of a very small association (3 units) in California and I have been with this association for over 17 years since it started now with no insurance claims at all for the association.
Recently, one of the owners had water damage due to a pipe breakage and filled a claim with the HOA insurance company.

My question is: when/if our insurance rate increase due to this claim, do we all have to pay this increase or can we just have the owner who pipe broke pay that increase when the insurance policy premiums are due?

Thanks for any and all help.

Michael

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Unless your CCRs specificially state you can do what you're asking, any increase in preminums is a shared expense amongst all.
MarkR21 (North Carolina)
Posts: 710
Posted:
Are you serious?!?!?
Hoa insurance is for everyone right?

Everyone pays

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
everyone pays.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
In 20000 a house in the Association that I am in, an owner was on vacation and when a pipe broke during the winter. There was $125,000 in damages and the Association was on the hook as the primary insurance for much of that amount. All 84 Units in the Association were affected.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/01/2022 4:31 PM
everyone pays.

I agree.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelP23 on 07/01/2022 3:18 PM
Hi All-
I'm the President of a very small association (3 units) in California and I have been with this association for over 17 years since it started now with no insurance claims at all for the association.
Recently, one of the owners had water damage due to a pipe breakage and filled a claim with the HOA insurance company.

My question is: when/if our insurance rate increase due to this claim, do we all have to pay this increase or can we just have the owner who pipe broke pay that increase when the insurance policy premiums are due?

Thanks for any and all help.

Michael


I agree with others that this is a shared expense.

However, I have questions/observations:

* I'm going to assume that the broken pipe was part of the common elements and thus association responsibility to insure and repair.

* Whether the association has to pay for damage to the individual unit is going to depend on what kind of insurance the association carries. All-included insurance will pay for repairs to parts of the unit, "bare-bones" structure only insurance will not. Your CC&Rs should specify which type you have to carry. I assume that you have all-in insurance since the insurer would not pay for something that wasn't their responsibility. You may want to verify this.

* In general, filing a claim with the HOA's insurer should be a board decision and not up to individual owners, even if the owner is a board member.

* Ways to limit the increase in premiums include shopping around for competitive bids, raising your deductible, and avoiding small claims (which includes paying for repairs out of pocket if the total cost is close to the deductible amount). In a very small association, the last item may be harder to do.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I recently had a homeowner that had flood damage from their next door neighbor, which is in a condo. The CCRs do not provide for HOA coverage and this was a neighbor to neighbor issue and their respective insurers. The insurance agent did say that an owner has every right to avail themselves of the right to file a claim against the association policy. In this case the insurance company denied the affected owner's claim. The Board stayed out of the mix.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
That's similar to what we do. Homeowners are responsible for everything from the drywall in,and the association coverage of utility lines begins when the lines leave the house. We've encouraged homeowners to get water damage/sewer line coverage because many homeowner policies DON'T usually include that in a standard policy.

We've also tried to educate homeowners about paying attention to what's flushed down the toilet, using root kill products because we had a huge problem with tree root invasion of the pipes and making sure to watch the temperature during winter to prevent frozen pupes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My question is why are they filing with the HOA insurance? That's not how it's supposed to happen. They file with their insurance first. The HOA insurance is not necessarily their insurance it's all the members for what they are responsible for. Their insurance may contact the HOA's insurance for their part. It is the board that should be involved in contacting the insurance and interacting with them.

There is a huge deductible usually with HOA insurance policies. So you don't just jump into this lightly and let an owner make claims. It may be a fix that would not even make the deductible limits. Ours was 20K. That meant it had to be over 20K before insurance paid out the claimant. Plus there are only certain areas the HOA is responsible for.


Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Typically the first claim is made to one's own insurance company. That company will then subrogate with the association's insurance company.

I know people say well it was not my fault so why should I file a claim with my insurance company? Sorry, but that is the way it works.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/03/2022 9:01 AM
My question is why are they filing with the HOA insurance? That's not how it's supposed to happen. They file with their insurance first. The HOA insurance is not necessarily their insurance it's all the members for what they are responsible for. Their insurance may contact the HOA's insurance for their part. It is the board that should be involved in contacting the insurance and interacting with them.

There is a huge deductible usually with HOA insurance policies. So you don't just jump into this lightly and let an owner make claims. It may be a fix that would not even make the deductible limits. Ours was 20K. That meant it had to be over 20K before insurance paid out the claimant. Plus there are only certain areas the HOA is responsible for.


And you know this because? That's right, it's just FREE advice!
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/03/2022 9:28 AM
Typically the first claim is made to one's own insurance company. That company will then subrogate with the association's insurance company.

I know people say well it was not my fault so why should I file a claim with my insurance company? Sorry, but that is the way it works.

Agree. Owner must file on their insurance 1st. Then let the insurance policy determine who to file with next.

Every state is different though. In NC, everybody pays for their own damages. Master policy steps in if the damages are over the MP deductible. At that point the Board decides whether to file a claim under the MP, or pay from operating funds to keep claim activity low.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I know this because we had a tree fall on a house in our HOA. My last 2 weeks in office. The tree was located in the neighbor's yard. The tree fell across the back of their neighbor's house and across a fence. The damaged owner had to make a claim on their insurance first. Their insurance company then went after the neighbor's insurance. It turned out the neighbor was uninsured.

The tree that fell was on common property the HOA owned. The tree had an infestation of pine beetles. When the weather changed the tree unfroze breaking it. That means our HOA insurance was NOT responsible for the houses/fence damages. It was responsible for the clean up of the tree and the damages to the common property around the houses.

I got chewed out by the members of the HOA over this when they found out I paid out $1500 to do just that. Our deductible was 20K. The cost of clean up was only $1500. Not enough to meet the deductible to make a claim. So we had to pay out of our operating budget. (We did not have aa reserve as not necessary). We owned the common area and the tree NOT the houses or the lots they sat on.

So don't go assuming that anything that happens to a home or unit is on the HOA. A broken pipe in a unit does not automatically equal HOA insurance claim. It also involves the homeowner's insurance as well.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Melissa

The point you always miss is the homeowner has a right to file against the HOA insurance, subject to the policy and the deductible. Yes, the process would always involve the homeowner's policy first.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well the OP did not state the owner took this approach first. They went straight for the HOA's insurance. You have no idea how many people are under the FALSE impression that they don't need insurance because they live in a HOA/COA. They think that insurance covers them. It doesn't. That is why people are posting the process is homeowner's first then HOA. No one said did not have a right not to. Just their insurance should be doing it.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/03/2022 11:29 AM
You have no idea how many people are under the FALSE impression that they don't need insurance because they live in a HOA/COA. They think that insurance covers them. It doesn't.

I had no idea whatsoever. Thanks for the enlightenment.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why do you think the neighbor in my situation did not have insurance? I would bump into people in my own HOA who thought the HOA had "insurance". I had to enlighten them it was not THIER insurance. You had to have your own policy. It's not like "renter's insurance" living in a HOA.

You can't assume the person making the claim against the HOA is not under that impression. It happens. Best to ask before assuming..

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/03/2022 11:38 AM
Why do you think the neighbor in my situation did not have insurance? I would bump into people in my own HOA who thought the HOA had "insurance". I had to enlighten them it was not THIER insurance. You had to have your own policy. It's not like "renter's insurance" living in a HOA.

You can't assume the person making the claim against the HOA is not under that impression. It happens. Best to ask before assuming..

Ho Le Chit....I never knew

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