Violation Assessment -- Fine plus Discontinuing Services (turning off water)

I am not in a condo development, but I think that turning of utilities would be a poor choice for a condo to make. In the case of trash, the family in the condo will still generate trash, so where will it go? Water is also necessary for life. Like you, I think the legality of the move may be challenged, and even if legal, may not be well received by your condo owners.

Absolutely spot on. For this reason we have an immediate death sentence for violators. No one breaks anymore rules so they don’t worry about it since they always in compliance.

Some people have disputes this power so we are building a new hvac system that shuts offf air

I'm concerned about it, since I don't want the association hit upside the head by a lawsuit due to outdated bylaws. Our condo board isn't the brightest. In these same meeting minutes, it stated that each of the board members still needed to read through the bylaws. (The election was in October 2021.) Sorry -- but my confidence level is a bit low with this bunch.

This has come up a few times here and most replies have agreed that bio, the assn. cannot turn off an owners' water. In CA, it's stated this way: "

California's Supreme Court has determined that associations are "for all practical purposes" a landlord. (Francis T v. Village Green.) Under landlord-tenant law, landlords may not willfully cause, "directly or indirectly," the interruption or termination of utility service to a tenant's residence with the intent to terminate occupancy. Utilities covered include, but are not limited to, water, heat, light, electricity, telephone, gas, elevators and refrigeration. (Civ. Code §789.3.)" As Michel notes, some are needed to stay alive.

It doesn't mention trash. In your condo, is trash individually picked up? In my condo building, there are "Refuse Rooms" on each floor so it couldn't be withheld.

I'd say your Board doesn't know what it's doing. Can you actually vote your rules, covenants (CC&Rs, declaration) where it says these services can be withheld by an assn.? What does your state law say? I'd be worried too about push back. The board should consult with the HOA attorney before such action.

I'm with you: heftier fines and actual enforcement, not empty threats.

(Ignore Melissa as she was prez back in the dark ages when this might have kegs in her state. Her assumption that you're breaking the rules is odd)

Sorry had to get the rock off me that been living in since the dark ages... Again our HOA did and could enforce cutting off water in our CC&R's. Just because do not like it does not mean it doesn't happen. The HOA pays for the water (NOT the owner) and if it does not get paid, then it can shut off just like any other utility that does not get paid. You stop paying the water bill can they not cut your water off? Stop paying dues then the HOA can't pay your portion of the useage. Hence why they can shut off useage that is not being paid for.

However, FYI: our HOA did change to separate water meters. We had to update our By-laws/CC&R's to reflect that change. Otherwise people would think the HOA paid for water in the dues and we did not. Once we changed that then we had to stop turning off water rule as well. Instead we pursued liens against those who did not pay.

That is my belief, as well. A quick Google found that Arizona does not allow it. My guess is a lot of states don't.

Looking at Jennifer's post again, it may make a difference legally if you discontinue services in response to a violation (which is a choice) vs. non-payment of assessments (which may or may not be a choice).

It may also make a difference if your state allows foreclosures for non-payment of *fines*. My state does - it treats fines as assessments - but if your state doesn't, it limits the association's options.

Looking at it pragmatically, it makes sense to err on the side of caution: if the association is slapped with a lawsuit, even if they win they may spend more in legal costs than they would have pursuing other remedies.

The HOA board is looking to use this process for any type of violation -- not as punishment for not paying monthly dues. So, if a resident doesn't pick up after their dog, then it will be a written warning, fine and then shut-off of water, no trash pickup or snow removal. Each resident has their own trash receptacle, so that could be enforced. The water shutoff may be a bit difficult because I think they would have to gain access into the resident's condo unit. Our condo development doesn't have any amenities, such as a pool.

You can do this for unpaid dues but not fines etc. That crosses the line. Fines are not part of the collection process. They are punitive charges. Now not paying your fair share to the HOA budget to pay for the water that is different. So they need to review their documents to see what they can and can not fine for or if they can...

The question was raised why I don't try to join the board. I was on the board a few years ago, but resigned due to the antics of the majority of the board. At the time, we were self-managed and I felt we were one step away from a lawsuit. We now have a property management company and I'm disappointed that the company isn't doing more to steer the board in the right direction. I give them kudos, though, uncovering that the treasurer was embezzling.

Hi -- I'll pull the information tomorrow, so I can type it out exactly as stated.

I did a quick check the other day on the internet and couldn't locate a Michigan law stating anything about the turning off of utilities.

I could be wrong, but I think it is illegal in most state for an association to turn off a home's utility.

Here's the excerpt from the Master Deed:

Remedies of Breach. A default by a Co-owner shall entitle the association to the following relief: failure to comply with any restriction on use and occupancy contained herein or of any other term or provision of the condominium documents shall be grounds for relief, which may include an action to recover sums due for damages, injunctive relief, foreclosure of lien or any other remedy which in the sole discretion of the board of directors is appropriate to the nature of the breach as may be set forth in the condominium documents including, without limitation, the discontinuance of services upon 7 days notice, the levying of fines against co-owners after notice and hearing thereon and the imposition of late charges for non-payment of assessments. All such remedies shall be deemed to be cumulative and shall not be considered as an election of remedies.

I think the phrase "appropriate to the nature of the breech" is important. Who decides what's appropriate? Is there any violation that could justify actions that are life-threatening, such as shutting off water? I sure can't think of any.

Just because the master deed appears to give the board cover does NOT mean that it won't blow up in their faces.