Inspection building stating bldg structurally sound so where is emergency

PaulaR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Help!

Our HOA ordered a building Inspection in July 2021 which reflects our 12 story building built in 1965 is structurally sound but has some maintenance issues.

When the company inspected a sample of the exterior brick, they noticed two bricks were loose. As a result the company and board are recommending replacement of the entire brick which could run in the millions of Dollars. We could be looking at a substantial assessment after HOA fees were increased 15% in February this year.

Furthermore any assessment is supposed to be approved by the Majority of the Co-owners which a board member had an attorney call in to a meeting to say no approval necessary if it is an emergency. So waiting for information since July 2021, 400 hundred report (mainly pictures) provided September 2021. So nine months later where is the emergency?

So now realtors showing 7 units for sale are no longer showing our units because of the unknown assessment. The Board since last year has been spending excessive sums of money on our lobby and now one board member wants to replace the red brick with white brick to make it look new and increase property values. Our city historical society will not let them happen.

Even with substantial reductions in listing price nothing is selling. Several of the co-owners feel the lack of positive direction of the board will result in all owners suffering financially especially in property values.

Private owners are trying to educate others to stand up to the board.

Any suggestions would be appreciated? Possible

Thanks

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulaR3 on 06/18/2022 7:28 AM
Help!

Our HOA ordered a building Inspection in July 2021 which reflects our 12 story building built in 1965 is structurally sound but has some maintenance issues.

When the company inspected a sample of the exterior brick, they noticed two bricks were loose. As a result the company and board are recommending replacement of the entire brick which could run in the millions of Dollars. We could be looking at a substantial assessment after HOA fees were increased 15% in February this year.

Furthermore any assessment is supposed to be approved by the Majority of the Co-owners which a board member had an attorney call in to a meeting to say no approval necessary if it is an emergency. So waiting for information since July 2021, 400 hundred report (mainly pictures) provided September 2021. So nine months later where is the emergency?

So now realtors showing 7 units for sale are no longer showing our units because of the unknown assessment. The Board since last year has been spending excessive sums of money on our lobby and now one board member wants to replace the red brick with white brick to make it look new and increase property values. Our city historical society will not let them happen.

Even with substantial reductions in listing price nothing is selling. Several of the co-owners feel the lack of positive direction of the board will result in all owners suffering financially especially in property values.

Private owners are trying to educate others to stand up to the board.

Any suggestions would be appreciated? Possible

Thanks

Paula,

Nothing is selling because nobody can get a loan. Nobody can get a loan because your building does not meet the updated lending requirements from Fannie and Freddie.

PaulaR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 42

Posted:

I understand but other condo buildings in the city are selling with major structural issues. Thanks for your response.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I guess the education Owners need is to pressure the board to make a decision about replacing or tuckpointing* the brick. Are you sure the latter isn't an option? This still is very expensive as all of the existing brick must get new mortor.

Either way, the Board needs to act. The reason they're calling the situation an "emergency" is because a falling loose brick could seriously injure someone below. The inspector did not inspect every brick, so finding a few, they extrapolated from the sq. ft. inspected and estimated, let's say, that 12% of the brick is loose. Once a report like that is made, the HOA must take steps to remediate. A condo building across from my high rise had netting on 100s of sf of stone siding when it was found some were loose.The netting was up for months before the stones were suitably attached.

There is no reason why your HOA cannot use the existing brick. No matter what, it's going to be a huge, messy expensive project. Again, the Board needs to get a price so Owners know what to expect. Unless your reserve study shows your HOA has been setting funds aside to repair or replace the brick, I'm sorry to say you all will probably face a large special assessment. So....read your reserve study.

* I rented in an all- brick Chicago high rise some years ago that was then 40 years old. It had just been tuckpointed and I don't know much about it. But owners did complain about the special assessment.

PaulaR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Thank you for yur insight. We have no contractors or engineers on our board. They did not require a second inspection report which I feel is necessary before we spend millions of dollars on repair and replace.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Most HOA boards don't have those professionals on them. Most boards must reply on experts. Your property manager, we hope, can help the board write requests for proposals for the appropriate contractors to bid on the project.

PaulaR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Thanks for your response.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

My point exactly. Thanks.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

It would be interesting to see exactly what was written about the brick façade. Did they actually test the mortar or provide any other detail that indicated a much wider problem than the two bricks mentioned? What was the justification provided by the inspection company for replacing all of the brick?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good idea for Paula to read the report.

I'l repeat: all bricks were, of course, not inspected. But if two loose ones are found in random areas, as such an inspection would involve, these specialists extrapolate and estimate the number that there probably are in the whole building.

Loose (or even looser bricks) in a report by a qualified professional means that the Assoc MUST act for safety reasons, even if Thad thinks the board is comprised of losers. It is not surprising that a nearby 60-y.o. brick building wouldn't need to have this kinds of work done.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 06/18/2022 12:18 PM
Good idea for Paula to read the report.

I'l repeat: all bricks were, of course, not inspected. But if two loose ones are found in random areas, as such an inspection would involve, these specialists extrapolate and estimate the number that there probably are in the whole building.

Loose (or even looser bricks) in a report by a qualified professional means that the Assoc MUST act for safety reasons, even if Thad thinks the board is comprised of losers. It is not surprising that a nearby 60-y.o. brick building wouldn't need to have this kinds of work done.

Loose bricks might mean loose and non-existent mortar and the potential for water intrusion and significant degradation. That was the case for a building nearby. They had masons repair all the masonry and then had a specific waterproofing paint applied over all the masonry. The alternative was an incredibly expensive tear down of 70yr old structural walls.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 06/18/2022 12:22 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 06/18/2022 12:18 PM
Good idea for Paula to read the report.

I'l repeat: all bricks were, of course, not inspected. But if two loose ones are found in random areas, as such an inspection would involve, these specialists extrapolate and estimate the number that there probably are in the whole building.

Loose (or even looser bricks) in a report by a qualified professional means that the Assoc MUST act for safety reasons, even if Thad thinks the board is comprised of losers. It is not surprising that a nearby 60-y.o. brick building wouldn't need to have this kinds of work done.

Loose bricks might mean loose and non-existent mortar and the potential for water intrusion and significant degradation. That was the case for a building nearby. They had masons repair all the masonry and then had a specific waterproofing paint applied over all the masonry. The alternative was an incredibly expensive tear down of 70yr old structural walls.

The OP needs more information. After all, her building is 57 years old.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

The building has had a history of water intrusion. The HOA has paid $450,000 for two sealants to be applied to the building. The first one did not have a warranty, building still leaked during heavy storms and the company could not find the invoice for the work done. The 2nd one worked as we had few complaints about water issues. Some leaking from the roof into the hallway on the 12th floor. Inspection report said long term priority to replace brick but Board wants everything done now. Inspection done in 2 days for a 12 story building including going into 22 units, inspecting roof and foundation. And the report said they expect to find further areas of necessary repair not discovered in 2 days.

Co-owners would like to get bids on those items which are immediate or in the short term.

Last sale of condo in bld was Feb 22 yet at least condos on market since that time and now 7 with no offers.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

We do need more information which we are not getting from the Board.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

I have asked for help deleting duplicate messages. My applogies.
l

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I agree, Steve, which is exactly why I mentioned touckpointing in my above.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Looks like you seen the. report, Paula? Have you read your reserve study yet?

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

I suggested to the former President that we might need to have the building inspected after the collapse of the building in Florida. He only requested the foundation report. The new Board President got 2 quotes for the inspection report and chose the higher quote to go with Many Owners feel we need a second inspection report to compare to the September report. Board said no. The prior Board took care of the sealing of the brick and it has prevented future leaks through the brick.

We had a reserve study completed but nothing reaerved for entire brick replacement. Several former board members are trying to educate the co-ownwers so they will attend meetings and ask questions before we are hit with an large assessment for something we may or may not need. The current Board does not have the expertise nor our new Building Manager who only has a year of Property Manager experience.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

I suggested to the former President that we might need to have the building inspected after the collapse of the building in Florida. He only requested the foundation report. The new Board President got 2 quotes for the inspection report and chose the higher quote to go with Many Owners feel we need a second inspection report to compare to the September report. Board said no. The prior Board took care of the sealing of the brick and it has prevented future leaks through the brick.

We had a reserve study completed but nothing reaerved for entire brick replacement. Several former board members are trying to educate the co-ownwers so they will attend meetings and ask questions before we are hit with an large assessment for something we may or may not need. The current Board does not have the expertise nor our new Building Manager who only has a year of Property Manager experience.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

I suggested to the former President that we might need to have the building inspected after the collapse of the building in Florida. He only requested the foundation report. The new Board President got 2 quotes for the inspection report and chose the higher quote to go with Many Owners feel we need a second inspection report to compare to the September report. Board said no. The prior Board took care of the sealing of the brick and it has prevented future leaks through the brick.

We had a reserve study completed but nothing reaerved for entire brick replacement. Several former board members are trying to educate the co-ownwers so they will attend meetings and ask questions before we are hit with an large assessment for something we may or may not need. The current Board does not have the expertise nor our new Building Manager who only has a year of Property Manager experience.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

re you saying that the firm that did the inspection also estimated costs to repair/replace the brick cladding? Are they a contractor who might actually do the work?

As I noted above, board members rarely have the background to deal with huge projects like you seem to be facing. Your PM should be able to get advice from her/his management company.

Remind me about what you're trying to educated owners??

I'm feeling like a bunch of you wonks should unite and chief in to meet with a sound HOA attorney who has expertise in this area.

I noticed you wrote the the president "deeded." Only board should decide with their vote at meetings. You do attend board meetings, right? Apparently they aren't required to post where and where they are held but apparently board meetings are open to owners if you can find out the details.

PaulaR4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 22

Posted:

This company who wrote the report specializes in landscaping and design. The author of the report is getting bids for work. I have researched his credentials and he is an engineer not a contractor. I think we may be headed down a deep hole. We just paid $25,000 for the report preparer to prioritze the items yet the board says they want everything fixed at the same time.

Report says structural engineer, mechanical engineer, architect needed as well as electrical, plumbing fire proofing, cost estimating and any other non structural/non water filtration investigations to be completed by others and not the responsibility of company who completed report.

We have older owners who are on fixed income. We are trying to encourage them to attend meetings and have asked for zoom meetings for owner’s who can’t attend in person yet only directors are allowed to attend via zoom. Even if we could telephone in would be great. Only
the Board can call in.

Owners are feeling helpless and if we stand together and get 50.1% to stand up for answers we may
get them.

I think we need a 2nd report. Who spends millions of dollars with only 1 report?

Our building is of envelope construction which I feel needs contractors who specialize in this type of construction. No mention of
this in our report.

We have 9 directors. Normally 6 vote in favor of all motions. The remaining 3 are helpless.

The building manager is a recent college student whose prior experience was Asst Manager of a sandwich shop. He had 9 months of property management experience prior to being hired in February. Again no references required by Board. He is absolutely of no help. Board signed a year contract with the only company that provided bid for services.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Please excuse all my typos, Paula. Main point a group of Owners (not 'wonks!') should unite and chip in to hire a seasoned HOA attorney for advice.

IMO, the author of the report being the right kind of engineer is a good thing. A structural engineer should understand your envelope construction (as is my condo building) I truly don't think a 2nd inspection is needed. I'm afraid I can't offer anything further & others here typically aren't condo building ppl.

I'll just add this: our high rise has 300 balconies. about 90 of them are 3 X 10 off of dining areas or pri. bdrms. One 3' edge of each is "unconfined," it has no wall to hold in the tiles on the balconies. They could loosen and fall off during someone below. Our architect's certified report states this is a safety hazard and also states that many tiles on many balconies are loose or debonded. They aren't a safety issue to those below in the common areas because they're confined by balcony walls. So our HOA is paying a lot form reserves to build little walls to hold in these tiles. Our HOA attorney said we must due to the written report by the appropriate expert. We do not need a 2nd I opinion.