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AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Curious what your Bylaws say that 'allows' Membership Meetings to do zoom/electronic meetings and to vote online?

Currently, my Bylaws say: "Meetings of the Corporation shall be held on the Property or as close to the Property as practicable"
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 9:15 AM
Curious what your Bylaws say that 'allows' Membership Meetings to do zoom/electronic meetings and to vote online?

Currently, my Bylaws say: "Meetings of the Corporation shall be held on the Property or as close to the Property as practicable"

New California state statues allows for virtual meetings.
ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820
Posted:
many states during covid passed new laws that allowed nonprofits corporations to hold meetings virtually, I have read at least 4 or 5 states doing this on this very forum, you can google your own state to find out.
search for virtual,remote,electronic corporate meetings + STATE.

just becaause bylaws state you have to have a physical meeting, doesn't mean it can't be physical and virtual.

my bylaws state the meeting date and time, and voting to be done by written ballot, and our board has no issues with that.

generally residents only complain when rights are resitricted not enlarged.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/06/2022 9:20 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 9:15 AM
Curious what your Bylaws say that 'allows' Membership Meetings to do zoom/electronic meetings and to vote online?

Currently, my Bylaws say: "Meetings of the Corporation shall be held on the Property or as close to the Property as practicable"


New California state statues allows for virtual meetings.

As Max identifies, many states have enacted statutory updates over the past 24 months to enable virtual meetings. Those statutes typically supersede your governing documents.

Regards,
Steve
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
My state has a statute that only addresses Board Meetings, allowing meetings by any means of communication. Nothing about Membership meetings
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:07 AM
My state has a statute that only addresses Board Meetings, allowing meetings by any means of communication. Nothing about Membership meetings

well there you go! answered your own question.
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:07 AM
My state has a statute that only addresses Board Meetings, allowing meetings by any means of communication. Nothing about Membership meetings

might want to list your state, get specific advice.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JustinT5 on 06/06/2022 10:15 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:07 AM
My state has a statute that only addresses Board Meetings, allowing meetings by any means of communication. Nothing about Membership meetings


well there you go! answered your own question.

ehh....not really.

my question was: Curious what your Bylaws say that 'allows' Membership Meetings to do zoom/electronic meetings and to vote online?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You do realize that many Bylaws were written before programs like ZOOM became a thing, don't you? In your case, one could interpret your bylaws as mandating live meetings somewhere on the property (e.g. clubhouse) or a location close to it, such as a public library. If we're getting nit-picky, it could be argued that many people are sitting at home on their computer or tablet during a Zoom meeting, so technically, the meeting IS on the property - it's just that everyone's at home (or in their garage, the backyard, etc.) It would be the same if there was a massive conference call, although some people might "attend "the thing while driving to or from work.

I didn't attend our annual meeting in 2020 (it was February just as everything was beginning to shut down), but our board made arrangements to host it on Zoom and the letter included the link. If memory serves, that meeting was live, but everyone had to social distance and wear a mask - can't remember if someone bought a digital thermometer to take everyone's temperatures.

The portion you offered up doesn't mention voting at all and since online voting is rapidly becoming a thing, you could always have homeowners vote on amending the Bylaws to allow for online voting and/or virtual meetings. I haven't asked my board about this, but I may do so because pandemics aren't the only reason this may be necessary - this is the Midwest and sometimes weather becomes a HUGE factor.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
And as Justin noted, it's not about what OUR bylaws say because you don't live in our communities -check what YOUR state has to say and then discuss if you should update your documents accordingly. If a formal update isn't necessary, the board can always adopt a resolution stating annual meetings board meetings AND general homeowners' meetings can be held online when appropriate or necessary, or some such. If you allow for participation via phone (because some people don't have a computer or the internet), you should be ok.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:48 AM
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....

unless the documents were written in the last couple of years, they wont' mention anything online.
as long as your documents are vage enough,the board can do the meeting how they want as long as it meets state law.
if the documents state the meeting must take place at a certain address and people can only vote via hand raise then you cant' do online.

it's not gonna be spelled out for you , if that's what you are looking for.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Ours say:

"Telephonic participation. One or more directors may participiate in and vote during any regular or special meeting of the Board by telephone conference call or similiar comunication equipment by means of which all Persons participating in the meeting can hear each other at the same time...."
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JustinT5 on 06/06/2022 10:57 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:48 AM
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....


unless the documents were written in the last couple of years, they wont' mention anything online.
as long as your documents are vage enough,the board can do the meeting how they want as long as it meets state law.
if the documents state the meeting must take place at a certain address and people can only vote via hand raise then you cant' do online.

it's not gonna be spelled out for you , if that's what you are looking for.

I think you're missing the question. Of course they don't mention online meetings, hence the point of the question. I included exact phrasing from my Bylaws that currently says meetings must be held on the property.

I am asking if anyone's HOA allows for e-meetings of the membership, and if so, what is the wording your Bylaws use...
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 11:02 AM
Ours say:

"Telephonic participation. One or more directors may participiate in and vote during any regular or special meeting of the Board by telephone conference call or similiar comunication equipment by means of which all Persons participating in the meeting can hear each other at the same time...."

and what about Meetings of the Membership, aka Annual and Special Meetings? This is what I'm specifically asking about.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 11:02 AM
Ours say:

"Telephonic participation. One or more directors may participiate in and vote during any regular or special meeting of the Board by telephone conference call or similiar comunication equipment by means of which all Persons participating in the meeting can hear each other at the same time...."


and what about Meetings of the Membership, aka Annual and Special Meetings? This is what I'm specifically asking about.

No, ours do not allow virtual meetings of the membership. We do virtual meetings because there is a state law that allows this, not because our CC&Rs allow it.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 11:12 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 11:02 AM
Ours say:

"Telephonic participation. One or more directors may participiate in and vote during any regular or special meeting of the Board by telephone conference call or similiar comunication equipment by means of which all Persons participating in the meeting can hear each other at the same time...."


and what about Meetings of the Membership, aka Annual and Special Meetings? This is what I'm specifically asking about.


No, ours do not allow virtual meetings of the membership. We do virtual meetings because there is a state law that allows this, not because our CC&Rs allow it.

are you talking about the Emergency Proclamation (https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/proclamations/proc_20-51.11.pdf) or 24.03.075 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=24.03&full=true#24.03.075) or something else?

If the SOE proclamation, what happens when the SOE is over? then back to your regular bylaws...

as we all know, just because something is 'allowed' at a legislative level does not mean an HOA cannot control it further. That's why I'm looking for examples of bylaws that allow for remote/online meetings, to remove any possible conflict.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
RCW 64.38.35 - Association meetings

(5) Except as otherwise restricted by the governing documents, meetings of the association may be conducted by telephonic, video, or other conferencing process, if: (a) The meeting notice states the conferencing process to be used and provides information explaining how owners may participate in the conference directly or by meeting at a central location or conference connection; and (b) the process provides all owners the opportunity to hear or perceive the discussion and to comment.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
To be honest, I'm not really a legal expert. We do electronic meetings because our homeowners prefer them and a state law allows us to collect absentee ballots. We are aggressive with getting homeowners to meetings and aggressive with getting people to vote, so no one complains about lack of transparency with our association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Why am I of the belief enough electronic meeting/voting. It is time to get back to face meetings.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/06/2022 11:55 AM
Why am I of the belief enough electronic meeting/voting. It is time to get back to face meetings.

We might have a face to face meeting this winter, but we will continue to do electronic voting. Why? We met quorum without any door knocking this year, for the first time ever. Electronic voting is here to stay. We actually only had about 10-15 homeowners at our annual meeting since we met quorum prior to the meeting.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 12:00 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/06/2022 11:55 AM
Why am I of the belief enough electronic meeting/voting. It is time to get back to face meetings.


We might have a face to face meeting this winter, but we will continue to do electronic voting. Why? We met quorum without any door knocking this year, for the first time ever. Electronic voting is here to stay. We actually only had about 10-15 homeowners at our annual meeting since we met quorum prior to the meeting.

Do you use Proxies to establish Quorum? Also electronic voting or not, let us not forget minimum % needed to make Covenant/Bylaw changes.
ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 06/06/2022 10:57 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:48 AM
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....


unless the documents were written in the last couple of years, they wont' mention anything online.
as long as your documents are vage enough,the board can do the meeting how they want as long as it meets state law.
if the documents state the meeting must take place at a certain address and people can only vote via hand raise then you cant' do online.

it's not gonna be spelled out for you , if that's what you are looking for.


I think you're missing the question. Of course they don't mention online meetings, hence the point of the question. I included exact phrasing from my Bylaws that currently says meetings must be held on the property.

I am asking if anyone's HOA allows for e-meetings of the membership, and if so, what is the wording your Bylaws use...

if the laws don't specifically say you CANNOT then by logical conclusion, you can.
ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 06/06/2022 12:00 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/06/2022 11:55 AM
Why am I of the belief enough electronic meeting/voting. It is time to get back to face meetings.


We might have a face to face meeting this winter, but we will continue to do electronic voting. Why? We met quorum without any door knocking this year, for the first time ever. Electronic voting is here to stay. We actually only had about 10-15 homeowners at our annual meeting since we met quorum prior to the meeting.

what service do you use for online voting?
ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/06/2022 11:55 AM
Why am I of the belief enough electronic meeting/voting. It is time to get back to face meetings.

cause online voting seems to generally give higher member participation and you seem to be in favor of the board making most decisions with little community input from your posts constantly calling me out for wanting to give the community more voice?
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThadC2 on 06/06/2022 3:54 PM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 06/06/2022 10:57 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:48 AM
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....


unless the documents were written in the last couple of years, they wont' mention anything online.
as long as your documents are vage enough,the board can do the meeting how they want as long as it meets state law.
if the documents state the meeting must take place at a certain address and people can only vote via hand raise then you cant' do online.

it's not gonna be spelled out for you , if that's what you are looking for.


I think you're missing the question. Of course they don't mention online meetings, hence the point of the question. I included exact phrasing from my Bylaws that currently says meetings must be held on the property.

I am asking if anyone's HOA allows for e-meetings of the membership, and if so, what is the wording your Bylaws use...


if the laws don't specifically say you CANNOT then by logical conclusion, you can.

except when your governing documents specifically says it must be in person, aka cannot. Governing documents can be more restrictive than laws, but cannot conflict. Hence my question asking for examples of Bylaws that allow for electronic meetings.
ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820
Posted:


except when your governing documents specifically says it must be in person, aka cannot. Governing documents can be more restrictive than laws, but cannot conflict. Hence my question asking for examples of Bylaws that allow for electronic meetings.

that's not waht your bylaws state, you wrote aboe
"Meetings of the Corporation shall be held on the Property or as close to the Property as practicable"

but to answer question add a sentence like this:
All meetings may be held in any manner the board designates, including but not limited to in person, online, telephonically, etc.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 06/06/2022 10:57 AM
Posted By AdamL1 on 06/06/2022 10:48 AM
this is why I am asking for examples of what other Bylaws say, to allow for remote connection to meetings and voting....


unless the documents were written in the last couple of years, they wont' mention anything online.
as long as your documents are vage enough,the board can do the meeting how they want as long as it meets state law.
if the documents state the meeting must take place at a certain address and people can only vote via hand raise then you cant' do online.

it's not gonna be spelled out for you , if that's what you are looking for.


I think you're missing the question. Of course they don't mention online meetings, hence the point of the question. I included exact phrasing from my Bylaws that currently says meetings must be held on the property.

I am asking if anyone's HOA allows for e-meetings of the membership, and if so, what is the wording your Bylaws use...

You specially asked what someone's Bylaws stated as far as virtual meeting. How many HOA's do you think ran out and updated their Bylaws to insert new state laws, any state laws enacted over the last 5 years. I happen to have HOA's in California that still think they can conduct regular Action Without a Meeting because it's in their Bylaws.

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