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CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Hi gang. I posted here in March about restrictive arc guidelines. I appreciate all the comments back then. Since I and a few others caused such a ruckus the new proposed guidelines still haven't been adopted and the board is still working on figuring out what to do.

Election time is here. We have 3 seats up for election. I and a fellow neighbor will be running the for board. Delegate elections are first.

Bare with me as I go through this and get to my question.

Our community has roughly 1700 homes. Only 700 of these homes are single family homes. These 700 homes fall under the master association (which is comprised of 5 board members. This is the board that I am hoping to join.) Within these 700 homes we have 5 "districts" and each district elects 1 delegate to vote for board members. Delegate elections for these 5 districts is happening now.

The other 1000 homes are within 5 "sub-associations" that are condo communities. These sub-associations each have their own boards. The master association really doesn't do much for these sub-association except handle some common area landscaping. These delegates are already in place as they've already had their own annual elections.

So, 10 total delegates.

The point I'm trying to make is that the 700 of us who are most affected by the master association BOD unfortunately have the LEAST amount of voting power.

We do not do cumulative voting. Instead, each district and sub-association elects 1 delegate to vote for the board. The delegate votes at their own discretion, and their one vote represents all the homeowners in their respective district. The reason this is a contentious issue is because of the 5 sub-associations. Out of those 5, one of those condo communities holds nearly 500 homes (which is essentially 500 votes for 1 delegate).

While I am not denying that each district and each sub-association should have the right to vote, I wonder if there are other communities who have similar layouts or issues? It hardly seems right that the sub-associations, who rarely deal with our board, should hold more voting power than those of us in the 700 homes that are directly impacted by the architectural decisions that our board makes. These sub-associations do not have any understanding or idea of the challenges we are facing in the single family homes.

Two of the current board members who are up for election this year have been on the board the longest (over 20+ years). These are the two who most of us in the 700 would like to see replaced. We in the single family homes are ready for change. I've attended every meeting since March and it's clear these 2 are so used to being in power and getting what they want. The events of the last few months have had them in quite a frenzy as they're not used to so many people joining meetings and fighting back. The issue is that it's clear that they are friendly with a few of the delegates in the sub-associations. My concern is that we will not get the votes we need to replace these two folks if we cant get the delegates from the sub-associations on our side.

Any advice is much appreciated.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Here is a link to how delegate voting is done in an association. https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/D/District-Delegate-Voting

I reviewed the rules for one an association in Riverside County consisting of 1900 homes and they used delegate voting using the discretionary voting method. It was a mess.
CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Hi Max,

Thanks. I saw that page earlier today. Apparently this is how our community has done it since 2010.

Can you please point me in the direction of the Riverside community so I can read about it?

Regardless - if I am elected to the board, how can I change this rule? Do you think it's right that the sub-associations hold more voting power than us here in the master association?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sure I got lost along the way, but are you saying, Cali, that sub-assn. owners can make decisions on ARC matter in that only involve the 700 homes?

Or do sub-assn. members solely get to vote for members of the master assn. Board?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/03/2022 5:25 PM
I'm sure I got lost along the way, but are you saying, Cali, that sub-assn. owners can make decisions on ARC matter in that only involve the 700 homes?

Or do sub-assn. members solely get to vote for members of the master assn. Board?

No, owners do not make decisions on ARC issues, it is the board that do. The issue is how boards are elected that is an issue.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CaliF on 06/03/2022 2:50 PM
Hi Max,

Thanks. I saw that page earlier today. Apparently this is how our community has done it since 2010.

Can you please point me in the direction of the Riverside community so I can read about it?

Regardless - if I am elected to the board, how can I change this rule? Do you think it's right that the sub-associations hold more voting power than us here in the master association?

Every master association and their sub associations are set up differently. No two are really alike. Master associations typically speak for all th subs in general and will maintain the common area that is common to all. They will also govern the association that is directly under their control.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you saying, Cali, that sub-assn. boards would make decisions on ARC applications in the mst. assn?

Or are you simply saying that sub. assoc. members can vote for members of the master assn. board?

I am trying to understand what "holding more voting power" means.
CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Sorry. Maybe I'm not explaining it right.

Like Max said above.

Our master association governs us, the 700 single family homes that are directly under their control. In addition there are 5 sub-associations that are condos. They do not govern those sub-associations but just handle landscaping and common areas. THese sub-associations each have their own HOA boards.

However, since the 5 sub-associations have a greater QUANTITY of homes (1000), they outnumber our 700 single family homes during election time. What this means is that even if the delegates in our 700 homes all vote to replace the board members we want gone, but the delegates in the sub-associations vote to keep them, then we are screwed. And it hardly seems fair that the sub-associations should get a higher amount of votes then us, when the master association doesn't even govern them.

As I mentioned earlier the delegates get to vote at their own discretion and there is no cumulative voting.

Does this make sense? Or am I totally crazy with my thought process.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Even though they have 5 delegates for the 700 in the master and 5 delegates for the 1000 condos, it is 1000 condos versus 700 homes.
CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/03/2022 6:55 PM
Even though they have 5 delegates for the 700 in the master and 5 delegates for the 1000 condos, it is 1000 condos versus 700 homes.

Yes exactly. And our master association governs us in the 700, and we 700 want change.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for the concise clarification, CaliF. Whether or not it's "fair," you owners in the master who really want change need to campaign in the subs--door to door if need be. Just think of it like any other election. Make colorful flyers promoting the candidates who'll do the best job for the whole HOA. Do not badmouth the old-timers.

Do not assume that the delegates in the subs have much persuasive power. Get a team together and work for "fresh new approaches," etc.

We seem to have only very few master/sub posters here, but maybe Adam or David will check in.

CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/03/2022 6:56 PM
Thanks for the concise clarification, CaliF. Whether or not it's "fair," you owners in the master who really want change need to campaign in the subs--door to door if need be. Just think of it like any other election. Make colorful flyers promoting the candidates who'll do the best job for the whole HOA. Do not badmouth the old-timers.

Do not assume that the delegates in the subs have much persuasive power. Get a team together and work for "fresh new approaches," etc.

We seem to have only very few master/sub posters here, but maybe Adam or David will check in.


Thanks for the advice! We are doing our best to campaign with the subs. We are not bad-mouthing the old-timers. If we end up winning, are you aware of better ways for elections to be handled in the future? Do many large associations utilize delegate voting? Thanks again.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/03/2022 6:56 PM
Do not assume that the delegates in the subs have much persuasive power. Get a team together and work for "fresh new approaches," etc.

Actually, the delegates have ALL the power, as they can vote in any matter they wish, even against how the members voted.
CaliF (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/03/2022 7:11 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/03/2022 6:56 PM
Do not assume that the delegates in the subs have much persuasive power. Get a team together and work for "fresh new approaches," etc.


Actually, the delegates have ALL the power, as they can vote in any matter they wish, even against how the members voted.

Yes, correct. They do have all the power. They can vote however they wish.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
My email address is [email protected]

I will send you the docs you're looking for.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Having no understanding of delegates, I did take a look at Davis-stirling.com and can now see how that requirement takes power away from Owners in general. Hope max can offer some kind of help.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/04/2022 9:02 AM
Having no understanding of delegates, I did take a look at Davis-stirling.com and can now see how that requirement takes power away from Owners in general. Hope max can offer some kind of help.

Heck, I thought you were the California expert.

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