Help!! Voting rights

Started by JillJ4 • 23 replies • 431 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JillJ4
Posts: 29

Posted:

Can a homeowner vote on an issue that is pertaining to them directly ?
We have to have a special meeting and vote for something that pertains to one homeowner and they think they can vote on the issue. They cannot correct? I need somewhere that says that..

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Remind us, Jill, are you on the Board? If this one issue pertains only to this one Owner, is it an architectural issue? A disciplinary issue? A landscaping or parking issue? A request made by this owner?

If this "special meeting" is a board meeting, the owner has no vote. If this special meeting is a meeting of the members (owners), she might have a vote.

Please give us some details.

JillJ4
Posts: 29

Posted:

Yes I was voted in as VP but not acting President as he resigned.
The issue is a legal issue-they want the HOA to pay for legal fees where they tried to sue the HOA.
The special meeting is just for this particular issue hoping to end it!

JillJ4
Posts: 29

Posted:

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I assume then, that this meeting is in executive session? Do you have a property manager or experienced board member who can help advise you? I'm a little worried that you think it possible she can vote on this topic. This isn't atopic that owners can vote on.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JillJ4 on 05/26/2022 7:31 PM
Can a homeowner vote on an issue that is pertaining to them directly ?
We have to have a special meeting and vote for something that pertains to one homeowner and they think they can vote on the issue. They cannot correct? I need somewhere that says that..

Owners only officially vote at member meetings such as annual meetings and special meetings of members.

Regards,
Steve

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Your governing documents should state when legal fees may be passed to an owner - if you don't find anything there, check state laws.

This shouldn't be a voting matter at all, not even by the board.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

This appears to be a continuation of the thread at https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/326936/view/topic/Default.aspx

Is the proposed vote for an amendment of the governing documents? If not, then the owners en masse have no legal authority to order that the HOA pay the attorney fees an owner incurred.

Has this board even asked the HOA attorney what the correct approach is?

But since it appears this board is going forward with an unlawful owners' vote, and so deep down the rabbit hole, I think the board should let the owner vote. There is nothing, zero, to argue he cannot vote (unless you want this forum to make something up). Just get this gross violation of the governing documents over and done with (regardless of what the final vote is) and get on with other foolishness in the make-it-up-as-you-go-who-cares-what-the-governing-documents-say.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The only reason I can see for allowing homeowners to vote on this is that the board assumes most of them will say "oh heck no", and when Mr. Lawsuit complains or threatens to sue again, they can point to the vote and hope he'll shut up and go away.

Given that he's bold enough to sue the association, lose, and then expect them to pay the price for his foolishness, I predict that he will not go away. Appeasing the unreasonable seldom works as desired.

JillJ4
Posts: 29

Posted:

That is our hope!

JillJ4
Posts: 29

Posted:

That is our hope!

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 05/27/2022 10:33 AM
The only reason I can see for allowing homeowners to vote on this is that the board assumes most of them will say "oh heck no", and when Mr. Lawsuit complains or threatens to sue again, they can point to the vote and hope he'll shut up and go away.

Given that he's bold enough to sue the association, lose, and then expect them to pay the price for his foolishness, I predict that he will not go away. Appeasing the unreasonable seldom works as desired.

There's really nothing to vote on in this case. Homeowners do not vote at Board meetings and they are excluded from executive session discussions. It sounds to me like there's a survey happening unless the issue is put to a formal vote at a properly noticed meeting of the members or by ballot (if allowed statutorily).

Regards,
Steve

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

I really wish I understood why this vote was even allowed to happen? Is it because the Board members don't know better or is there some other reason?

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JillJ4 on 05/26/2022 7:31 PM
Can a homeowner vote on an issue that is pertaining to them directly ?

Others have pointed out how voting in this particular case may simply be wrong.

But I’d like to point out that there is no general prohibition against a person voting in their own interest: political candidates can and do vote for themselves in elections; marijuana smokers can vote for decriminalization/legalization; members of special interest groups can vote for referendums that favor their group; etc.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/27/2022 11:21 AM

Oh yes, I agree. My first response was that this isn't a voting matter for anyone - either the governing docs allow for something like this, or legal expenses may be assigned to one party by the court. Other than that, everyone pays their own legal costs.

There will be consequences for doing what the OP's board proposes. For instance, board members often complain about how little homeowners understand their rights and responsibilities as members of a community association. Doing something like this will further confuse them and may set the board up for problems down the road when owners feel entitled to weigh on things that they have no authority over.

Many of the regulars here recommend that boards say "bring it on" when homeowners threaten to sue and whatnot. This works better if boards know what they're doing and are on solid ground as far as complying with the CC&Rs and the law goes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 05/27/2022 11:50 AM
I really wish I understood why this vote was even allowed to happen? Is it because the Board members don't know better or is there some other reason?

Same here. Not an item for owners to be voting on. It is a BOD/lawyer decision.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Completely disagree with BillD. If a board member, one certainly can vote for self to be, say, an officer. But a non-director has no standing to vote at a board meeting.

With JohnT, I have the feeling that this Board isn't very experienced and, with Augustin, think it should probably seek their HOA attorney's advice.

Jill, a is your Board really having Owners vote on this matter?? What kind of meeting will this be? A "special meeting" of the members? Or a "special meeting" of the Board? What will the agenda item wording say?

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

If the amount to be paid out or neogiatedand would require a special assessment to pay, then by all means a vote by owners is in order.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/27/2022 2:01 PM
Completely disagree with BillD. If a board member, one certainly can vote for self to be, say, an officer. But a non-director has no standing to vote at a board meeting.

Something of a gedankenquestion: is it possible to completely disagree with something that someone never said?

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

The OP is in Minnesota, with her 24-home HOA subject to MN statute 515B yada. I do not see anything in the statutes saying a vote must happen for a special assessment.

Clearly the OP's board is fine making up stuff. I think it would be sweet revenge (for the board's recklessness) if a majority of owners present at the meeting did vote for all owners to pay this guy's attorney fees. Those not present will rain hell down on the board.

JillJ4, is the HOA President going to require a quorum? Requiring a quorum could get in the way of this vote, right? Maybe you all should throw out the quorum requirement. Also what percentage must vote in favor of assessing all owners to pay this guy's attorney fees for this vote to count? A simple majority of owners present? A super majority (2/3rds or 3/4s, say) of all 24 owners? Has your board made up the number for this yet?

JillJ4, are you buying into this meeting of the owners and subsequent vote of the owners, or did you get outvoted by the board regarding whether the governing documents even authorize such an owners' meeting to have such a vote?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I seem to recall the last conversation from the OP saying this homeowner lost a lawsuit or something against the association and is now raising hellfire and brimstone so the HOA will pay his/her legal fees. If that's the case, I think this board is running scared - unless a judge said pay the fees, this homeowner should be told in no uncertain terms - you lost and your legal expenses are YOUR responsibility. If he/she pushes things, remind the homeowners that the association doesn't print money - THEY'D be paying this person's expenses. If they're ok with that, fine, but if not......

Sometimes you have to call people out on their BS because there are times when the answer really is no.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 05/27/2022 3:17 PM
... snip...

Something of a gedankenquestion: is it possible to completely disagree with something that someone never said?

BillD

We do it around here all the time.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

As I'd mentioned earlier, I suspect that the board wants cover when they tell the person "no" and he/she blows up. They'd like to point to a homeowner vote and say "sorry, our hands are tied". I also suspect that this won't prevent a blow-up, although maybe the threat of being sued by a bunch of neighbors will give the person pause.

Along with Sheila, there are times when a board needs to pull up their adult pants, say "no" and just weather the storm. In what universe does that homeowner think that someone can pick, lose the fight, and then the winner pays the loser? (Yes, I know, it happens in the business world all the time.) The loser is lucky that the CC&Rs and the judge didn't allow the HOA to pass the HOA's legal costs to *them* - that can happen as well, it's one of the risks of suing your association.

CassyM (New York)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Yeah I totally agree

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here