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TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our association is now 40 years old and has relied on volunteer boards, directors, etc. Unfortunately, we've had one building condemned and torn down and a golf course that our association had to take over with a $2M rehab loan.

Currently, most residents are over 75. While I don't mean any discrimination, I point it out because most just want things to remain as it's been. Problem is we had our Operations Manager resign and crazy as it sounds, this resident/member volunteered to manage all community operations! And yes he was burned out, he even yelled at a resident just the other day at the pool cause umbrellas were all being removed because of wind...another long story on cheap pool furniture.

My question is can anyone share how it went transitioning from volunteer based association to one that is ran professionally? Specifically, what steps did you take, how'd you overcome "status quo" wows, and how'd you convince the community it was best?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Golf course-based HOA communities seem to fail a lot. I think this will happen even more in places where the water shortage is becoming overwhelming. One option I have seen exercised is to sell the golf course land for development into additional housing. Sometimes it takes a few years of laying out the dollars, cents and sense to convince owners that this is the best option. Working with the city will be key, as zoning is involved. To the OP: Yes, I know the residents will revolt initially.

As for convincing the community professional management is best, I think the Board should sit down and explain:

-- How many volunteer hours each director gives each month to running the place.

-- Volunteers often lack the necessary skill set in infrastructure, accounting, and real estate and covenant law to be effective.

-- Burn-out is high.

-- In closing, the Board might wish to say: "Anyone critical of contracting with professional management: Are you willing to serve on the board?"
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Off-hand, I would point out that paying a professional manager has to cost less than tearing down condemned buildings and paying off a $2M rehab loan.

On the other hand, plenty of people are bad with numbers and even worse with dollars, so this may not compute. Any community that isn't howling over condemned buildings and $2M loans really raises my eyebrows. I also question whether your boards have been doing their jobs properly, because this screams negligence to me, and a professional manager can't fix that - the manager takes instructions from the board, not the other way around.

So the first order of business is training for board members so that they know what they're doing.

Also check what your governing documents and state statutes say. Usually it's up to the board, not the homeowners, to decide whether or not hiring a professional manager is appropriate - and based on what you've said, it seems to be in this case. Your limitations may involve homeowners' ability to vote down assessment increases. I call these provisions a "license to commit financial suicide" and if you have them, you may have problems.

Another potential problem: finding a manager who's willing to take on what sounds like a troubled community.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
2 options:

1) simply solicit bids and hire a management company.
The board can make this decision on their own.
Keep in mind you still need to have a board of directors but the MC would handle most of the day to day stuff.
As with any company, there are good and bad management companies.

2) If nobody wants to serve on the board, petition the court for receivership.
Down side is that the receiver works for the court and not the association.
Assessments can increase without membership approval because the receiver had court approval.
Not a good option, but it is an option.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyB5 on 05/26/2022 5:41 AM
Our association is now 40 years old and has relied on volunteer boards, directors, etc.

My question is can anyone share how it went transitioning from volunteer based association to one that is ran professionally? Specifically, what steps did you take, how'd you overcome "status quo" wows, and how'd you convince the community it was best?

Timothy,

You'll always have a volunteer board of directors (unless as TimB4 suggests, your CIC ends up in receivership). If your association has been self-managed for a long time, it's easy to forget the benefits and challenges that come with retaining a third party manager.

I'm a big believer in knowing exactly what you're getting into. I hope that you and your peers will spend plenty of time looking before you leap and strongly recommend that you read through Great Expectations!: What to Expect from your Management Company for some ideas that can help. You should not re-create the wheel.

Regards,
Steve
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Timothy,
You left us with a lot of things unsaid.

1) How many units are in your HOA?
2) How much is your monthly dues currently?
3) How many hours does your current volunteers spend serving the HOA doing the odd jobs?

I am assuming that you probably need a PMC to serve your community 20 hours a week. Remember they are not going to do most of the tasks that volunteers are currently doing they will only manage the contractors or agents they hire. Your dues will almost certainly go up, but it needs to happen if the community is to survive.
TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The association consists of 841 units, 192 of that is townhomes, rest are single family homes. We pay $180 per month, $60 goes toward Golf Course ops. Not sure how many volunteer hours, but sure it's pretty high especially OPS since manager is a resident.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for info, Timothy. What other amenities do you have besides the golf course? Clubhouse, pool, etc.? Your dues seem shockingly low???
TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Club house decorated in 1990s, pool with Walmart Made in China furniture with no permanent reprieve from Texas sun and heat. Two tennis courts, one with a painted on Pickleball court.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/26/2022 9:34 AM
Thanks for info, Timothy. What other amenities do you have besides the golf course? Clubhouse, pool, etc.? Your dues seem shockingly low???

$1.2MM/yr for everything besides the golf course which consumes ~$600,000/yr is "shockingly low"? Timothy, do you have an updated reserve study?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Timothy

HOA's with attached golf courses are getting into financial problems all over. One main factor is younger people are not attracted to golf or the country club life. Older people who were attracted to that life style are also the ones screaming they are on fixed incomes and cannot afford any increases.

The fact that you have never had professional management is a bad omen in that I doubt many of your people knew/know what is in store for them.

My initial blush is sell the golf course. If it is to stay a golf club, then make a lucrative arrangement for an owner to be a member.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyB5 on 05/26/2022 9:22 AM
The association consists of 841 units, 192 of that is townhomes, rest are single family homes. We pay $180 per month, $60 goes toward Golf Course ops. Not sure how many volunteer hours, but sure it's pretty high especially OPS since manager is a resident.

This situation blows my mind. I can’t even imagine a volunteer HOA running a golf course.

It looks like you’re taking in about $1.8 million dollars a year in dues. I’m most definitely not a shill for the PMC industry, but essentially you’ve got an almost $2,000,000/year business there, y’all *should* look into some kind of professional mgmt services.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Operating income is at least $1.816k per year with $600k going to the golf course. I suspect the townhomes pay a little more because of insurance requirements. Sorry, that doesn't seem "shockingly low".
TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Kerry,

No, but I just asked Treasurer this week that ecxact question to include financial plan when we can delcare the golf course as self-sustaining.
TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Here's the real sad thing is that we residents pay exact same amount for membership as anyone off the street. In fact, all we can get is 10% discount on green fees and that requires you to tell pro shop every time. But first words out of their mouths are "are you member?" In fact, if you own you own golf cart and want to get a valued sticker to allow your cart on the course requires you to buy membership...you know kind of like mafia stiff arm.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oops, sorry, my bad math strikes again.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyB5 on 05/26/2022 10:38 AM
Here's the real sad thing is that we residents pay exact same amount for membership as anyone off the street. In fact, all we can get is 10% discount on green fees and that requires you to tell pro shop every time. But first words out of their mouths are "are you member?" In fact, if you own you own golf cart and want to get a valued sticker to allow your cart on the course requires you to buy membership...you know kind of like mafia stiff arm.
TimothyB5, in your first post you say the HOA "had to take over the golf course with a $2M rehab loan." Is it correct to say the HOA is now running the golf course as a separate business, said business being open to the public?

I am curious: Was there an owners' vote to amend the Declaration to include the golf course as "common area" that the HOA maintains?
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2022 11:00 AM
Is it correct to say the HOA is now running the golf course as a separate business, said business being open to the public?

I am curious: Was there an owners' vote to amend the Declaration to include the golf course as "common area" that the HOA maintains?

I, too, would be very interested in hearing more about this situation and how it came to be. Feel free to quote from Caddyshack if you need to.

“Be the ball”

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
PaulP17 (Louisiana)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I apologize up front but just thinking out loud, a “public” golf course with a budget of 600k doesn’t seem like it has much chance of success.
It also seems like a few legal steps may have been overlooked in the “acquisition” of the said property. Not looking at the true financials make it hard to offer recommendations but a property that large with a golf course would need some type of professional management. May not be a PMC but a business professional can help you see the upcoming pitfalls you are about to experience.
TimothyB5 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
What I've learned to date is the Golf Course, Egret as they call it, has it's own financials. But, our HOA is supplementing the course such as making pro shop AC repairs, painting Pro Shop, course sprinkler repairs. Yet these costs are being shown on our HOA financials as separate operational costs. Instead, the Treasurer told me is all included in capital improvements. Here's the really sticker, golf course April 2022 showed a net income of $27K. Yet it is not added/included under the HOA's Incomes. I asked Treasurer why, no answer.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Do your CC&Rs require a periodic audit of your books? I *strongly* recommend having one, especially if you haven't used a professional manager who knows how to keep the books in good order.

I agree that the facts you've presented don't quite add up, and you're probably not getting answers because the questions haven't been considered before. I'd also be concerned.

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