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BevW (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Has anyone experienced that their board made Declarations/Covenants CICAA compliant and thus took the vote away from the entire community?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BevW on 05/24/2022 9:29 AM
Has anyone experienced that their board made Declarations/Covenants CICAA compliant and thus took the vote away from the entire community?
BevW, are you saying that your Board, without an owners' vote, amended its Declaration/Covenants strictly to ensure compliance with the Illinois CICAA? If so, my thoughts:

-- First and foremost, are you aware of this section of the IL CICAA?

If a provision of the community instruments does not conform to this Act or to another applicable law because of an error, omission, or inconsistency in the community instruments of the association, the association may correct the error, omission, or inconsistency to conform the community instruments to this Act or to another applicable law by an amendment adopted by vote of two-thirds of the board of directors, without a membership vote. A provision in the community instruments requiring members of record to vote to approve an amendment to the community instruments, or for the members of record to be given notice of an amendment to the community instruments, does not apply to an amendment that corrects an omission, error, or inconsistency to conform the community instruments to this Act or to another applicable law.


See https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=076501600HArt%2E+1&ActID=3273&ChapterID=62&SeqStart=100000&SeqEnd=1831250

-- Assuming this is strictly all the board did, so what? The CICAA would trump the declaration/covenants anyway.

-- If either the Declaration or CICAA prohibits amending the Declaration/Covenants as you describe, then okay, the amended Declaration/covenants is not valid. And again, so what? The statute trumps the Declaration/covenants.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Our board did something similar some years ago because our Declaration did not comply with current Ohio law.

Things like this generally don't need to have a homeowner vote as long as the amendment *only* brings the CC&Rs into compliance. It's not like you have a choice. Even if homeowners were 100% opposed to the changes, they have to obey state law since it supersedes anything a community's governing documents. (Note: there can be exceptions where state law defers to the governing documents in certain specific instances.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BevW on 05/24/2022 9:29 AM
Has anyone experienced that their board made Declarations/Covenants CICAA compliant and thus took the vote away from the entire community?

And what do you believe should have happened and why?
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BevW on 05/24/2022 9:29 AM
Has anyone experienced that their board made Declarations/Covenants CICAA compliant and thus took the vote away from the entire community?

I'll second Augustin. Nobody had their vote "taken away." It sounds like the Board made a reasonable change, supported by statute, to clarify and align your governing documents with the applicable statutory language. You should thank the Board for taking this initiative that will likely help your CIC going forward.
BevW (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The fact remains that our board sought this change so that they could begin spending monies without a majority vote. A nine member board with an agenda thwarts 371 other homeowners. I do not find this a good thing as suggested. I also do not see it justified in the CICAA law. As was pointed out this was not an error, omission or inconsistency.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BevW on 06/06/2022 6:12 AM
The fact remains that our board sought this change so that they could begin spending monies without a majority vote. A nine member board with an agenda thwarts 371 other homeowners. I do not find this a good thing as suggested. I also do not see it justified in the CICAA law. As was pointed out this was not an error, omission or inconsistency.

Bev, with respect, you never provided us any context to understand what changed or what's even in your governing documents.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Homeowners need to understand that boards in community associations normally decide on spending priorities. Homeowner input into these decisions is the exception rather than the rule, and the governing docs and/or state law would need to spell out the few specific instances where homeowner input is required.

Second, compliance with state law is not optional, and when the communities association's CC&Rs contradict the provisions in the state law, the state law overrides.

Amending the CC&Rs to bring them into compliance with current state law is typically within the scope of the board's authority. A homeowner vote is pointless. Homeowners could be 100% opposed to some provisions in the state law, but they still must comply with it.

In my experience, the unhappiest homeowners are the ones who don't understand how community associations work and who refuse to accept that they personally do not have a say in much of it. Community associations are not democracies, they're corporations - people who expect a democracy will be disappointed.
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BevW on 06/06/2022 6:12 AM
The fact remains that our board sought this change so that they could begin spending monies without a majority vote. A nine member board with an agenda thwarts 371 other homeowners. I do not find this a good thing as suggested. I also do not see it justified in the CICAA law. As was pointed out this was not an error, omission or inconsistency.

well what are they doing with the money?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You can find that out by requesting the monthly income/expense statement. In my opinion, a good board will tell homeowners where and how to get it. Some post it on the community website (usually in a section that's only available to homeowners) and/or provide a summary in the newsletter. We tell homeowners they can contact the property manager for a copy at any time (those are emailed as a PDF).

It also helps to attend a meeting every now and then to listen to the proceedings and you can always contact the board or property manager with questions. When you don't get a response AT ALL or the reply is gobbdygook, that's when you might want to ask more questions (in person). You might not agree with the expense, but should get a reasonable explanation as to why it was necessary. If you have suggestions on how those costs might be reduced, e.g. contact information for another vendor who you heard provides quality work at competitive prices, tell the board.

The board should also post approved meeting minutes - by reading them you should be able to track the progression of certain expenditures. For example, the board sent out RFPs for repairs to the clubhouse in March, reviewed them in April, asking the property manager to contact two vendors to provide additional information and in June, the board selected X to do the repairs, which are scheduled for June 27 and 28. Routine expenses shouldn't change much, but if there was a major jump, the minutes may explain why. For example, gas prices are DAMNED HIGH as I write this and that could affect assorted repairs later this year because the cost of materials will go up (because of supply chain issues and the cost of delivering them to your area and then your community).


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 06/06/2022 7:08 AM
Homeowners need to understand that boards in community associations normally decide on spending priorities. Homeowner input into these decisions is the exception rather than the rule, and the governing docs and/or state law would need to spell out the few specific instances where homeowner input is required.

Second, compliance with state law is not optional, and when the communities association's CC&Rs contradict the provisions in the state law, the state law overrides.

Amending the CC&Rs to bring them into compliance with current state law is typically within the scope of the board's authority. A homeowner vote is pointless. Homeowners could be 100% opposed to some provisions in the state law, but they still must comply with it.

In my experience, the unhappiest homeowners are the ones who don't understand how community associations work and who refuse to accept that they personally do not have a say in much of it. Community associations are not democracies, they're corporations - people who expect a democracy will be disappointed.

Well said especially about expecting a democracy.
BevW (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The board has put us into debt! In the 18 years that we have lived in our home the HOA never had debt. That being said they were not being proactive about setting aside reserves for potential improvements. We currently have a pool that is still viable but some want a deluxe pool that would be much larger. The area where the pool needs to be has a very small footprint on top of a wooded hillside.
Yes, these people were voted in by a democratic process. As we are finding out shame on us for being unaware. Several attorneys have reviewed the statute and not found the justification. So, our options are sue or get others elected to the board. Three were just voted in by the largest vote turnout in our recent history.
Other larger HOAs in our area did not conform their governing documents to comply for single family homes. They did comply with shared walled buildings such as row homes and townhomes which make sense because of the need for cohesiveness.
BevW (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
We have made formal requests as per the law and have had little luck with getting information. They are pretty much stonewalling or reluctant to reveal either a lack of good record keeping or something that can’t be defended. Receipts, bids, contracts have been a messy incomplete set or not provided. We do not have a management company. The work that has been done over the past several years has been done by board members or their cronies. Giving work to those who reside here is fine provided that three bids were sought and the best one chosen. And a board member should not be voting on their own company. As I have already said much fault is on not being involved or paying attention.

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