Unit Trash

Started by PamelaC8 • 20 replies • 327 views

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PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

Hello, There is a resident here that is going to be 97 years old, she does not come out of her unit except when her nephew takes her to the doctors. She usually has someone take out her trash and get her mail, everything else she needs is delivered to her unit. She also has a cleaning lady that I have seen come at the beginning of the month. Her trash is not being taken out regularly, the person who does do it has been gone since May 1st, he took the trash out right before he left. The cleaning lady came and put the bag of trash outside the door , the trash was an accumulation of 13 days.
The resident next door to this lady has lived there going on 5 years . Since February of 2022 the next door resident started having problems with roaches which she believes they are coming from next door. The 5year resident knows that pest control is their responsibility to have done but the issue here is the 97year old resident getting the trash taken out on a regular basis. The 5year resident offered to take out the trash but the other resident said she had someone to do it and didn't have much. How can this 97year old resident be made to get the trash out? The 5year resident has been doing DIY pest control but has called the pest control company to come. So if the unit is sprayed and the trash problem from next door still exists what is this 5year resident to do, why do they have to suffer?

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaC8 on 05/16/2022 2:43 PM
Hello, There is a resident here that is going to be 97 years old, she does not come out of her unit except when her nephew takes her to the doctors. She usually has someone take out her trash and get her mail, everything else she needs is delivered to her unit. She also has a cleaning lady that I have seen come at the beginning of the month. Her trash is not being taken out regularly, the person who does do it has been gone since May 1st, he took the trash out right before he left. The cleaning lady came and put the bag of trash outside the door , the trash was an accumulation of 13 days.
The resident next door to this lady has lived there going on 5 years . Since February of 2022 the next door resident started having problems with roaches which she believes they are coming from next door. The 5year resident knows that pest control is their responsibility to have done but the issue here is the 97year old resident getting the trash taken out on a regular basis. The 5year resident offered to take out the trash but the other resident said she had someone to do it and didn't have much. How can this 97year old resident be made to get the trash out? The 5year resident has been doing DIY pest control but has called the pest control company to come. So if the unit is sprayed and the trash problem from next door still exists what is this 5year resident to do, why do they have to suffer?

Pamela,

Some ideas for you:
> Declaration Language - Quiet Enjoyment. No Unit Owner, Residential User or Commercial User shall permit anything to be done or kept within any Unit or Common Element (including the Limited Common Elements) which will induce, breed or harbor infectious diseases, noxious insects or vermin and/or which may be or become an annoyance or nuisance and/or interfere with the quiet enjoyment of other residents. Examples include, but are not limited to the production of fumes, vapors and odors, ongoing noise, the introduction of recurring vibrations through Unit floors, walls, ceilings, and any actions or conditions that violate any applicable governmental mandate.
In recognition of the mixed-use nature of the Condominium, the foregoing restrictions shall not prohibit time-limited odors, sounds and vibration which may be generated during the course of alterations, required maintenance, repair and replacement activities, cooking odors, and similar unavoidable occurrences; however, all actions must be conducted to reasonably minimize impacts to other residents.

> "Age Friendly" programs in your area? Surely there are some in the Sunshine state like in Seattle, Washington? http://www.seattle.gov/agefriendly/about/programs

Regards,
Steve

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

What is your concern here, Pamala? Are you a board member? Are you the 5-year neighbor? Is this a condo building? Could you leave a note for the nephew asking to engage a new person to take the trash away/

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

PamelaC8, is the 5-year owner willing to file a formal complaint with the HOA, citing the covenant and rule or regulation that her neighbor is violating?

I think this is the beginning of a serious enough situation that the 5-year owner has to go on record.

I agree with SteveH35 about also seeing if the city has a services that checks on the welfare of folks like this elderly person.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

If the trash bags are sitting outside why doesn't the neighbor just carry them down and be the good Samaritan? He or she doesn't even need to tell the 97 year old what they are doing.

PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

My concern is that the 5year resident will have to keep having pest control coming because the trash problem will still exsist that is probably the cause of the problem.
This is a condo building with 12 units in it.
They are going to try and contact the nephew about the situation.

PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

The trash bag is inside, the cleaning lady had put it outside the door. The 5 year resident offered to take the trash out on a regular basis and was refused.

PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

The condo documents were looked into and nothing was found other than the unit owner is responsible for pest control, will look over them again. Also look for age friendly programs.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaC8 on 05/16/2022 4:30 PM
The condo documents were looked into and nothing was found other than the unit owner is responsible for pest control,

Look for a covenant that prohibits nuisances.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Is there a reason people can't volunteer to help their neighbor? I mean it sounds like a good oportunity to make this a great community for everyone. Instead of staring out the window at the situation, go into the window...

I helped take care of a few elderly neighbors. Nothing major. Just picking up their paper out of yard. Pulling some weeds. Visiting for a few minutes. Checking in on them. None of this takes that long to do. Think of how nice it would be to assist an 90+ person in need.

Former HOA President

PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

Good Morning Steve, I have gone over the documents again and there is nothing pertaining to trash in a unit or even remotely like what you posted. This HOA has altered the rules and regulations a few times and the residents do not have an up to date copy of them. I have had a few issues with them. We have three outside grilling areas and two residents decided they wanted their own grill and set them up in the parking lot near the garages and their building. When I kept making complaints they up and changed the rule to let them have their grills, now the grills are to be 10 feet away from buildings but they don't do that either. The HOA here constantly changes rules and regulations to suit a residents needs. I can see the trash problem will not be going away and the 5 year resident will have to suffer with paying and having pest control come all the time. I am still working on getting the nephews information to ask him to help, I am told not to expect too much from him as he doesn't get along with his aunt.
The management here has been notified by email about the roach situation and states they can not do anything. I will keep at it though.
Thanks for the reply.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Because the resident is elderly, there may be special considerations in play (ie. Fair Housing laws). Here is what a law firm in my state has to say about dealing with issues like this:

https://ohiocondolaw.com/article/five-things-to-know-when-an-elderly-resident-needs-help/

Basically you have to balance the welfare of the community with the elderly resident's right to privacy and quiet enjoyment of their home.

So... know what the relevant laws have to say. Check with local services for the elderly to see what help they can provide. Put everything in writing and make sure every step you take is well thought out and justified. Don't take shortcuts.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaC8 on 05/17/2022 3:45 AM
Good Morning Steve, I have gone over the documents again and there is nothing pertaining to trash in a unit or even remotely like what you posted. This HOA has altered the rules and regulations a few times and the residents do not have an up to date copy of them. I have had a few issues with them. We have three outside grilling areas and two residents decided they wanted their own grill and set them up in the parking lot near the garages and their building. When I kept making complaints they up and changed the rule to let them have their grills, now the grills are to be 10 feet away from buildings but they don't do that either. The HOA here constantly changes rules and regulations to suit a residents needs. I can see the trash problem will not be going away and the 5 year resident will have to suffer with paying and having pest control come all the time. I am still working on getting the nephews information to ask him to help, I am told not to expect too much from him as he doesn't get along with his aunt.
The management here has been notified by email about the roach situation and states they can not do anything. I will keep at it though.
Thanks for the reply.

Hello Pamela. I don't know FL statutes well enough to quote a reference, but there might be something there that would apply. Otherwise, there's some additional, fairly standard declaration / CC&R language below to supplement what I already provided re: nuisances. I would hope that your governing documents include some kind of reference that allows your CIC to take action when circumstances within a unit have become a concern to habitability and safety.

ADDITIONAL DECLARATION LANGUAGE EXAMPLES

>>> Owner Responsibility. Each Unit Owner shall, at their sole expense, have the right and the duty to keep the interior of their Unit and its equipment, appliances, and appurtenances in good order, condition and repair and in a clean and sanitary condition, and shall do all redecorating, painting, and finishing which may at any time be necessary to maintain the good appearance and condition of their Unit.

>>> Uses Affecting Insurance. Unit Owners, Residential Users and Commercial Users shall not permit anything to be done or kept in the Units or Common Elements (including the Limited Common Elements) which will result in the cancellation of insurance on any part of the Condominium, or would be in violation of any applicable governmental mandate. A Unit Owner may use his or her Unit and/or the Limited Common Elements allocated to it in a manner which may increase the insurance premiums for the Condominium, but the Board of Directors may, in its reasonable discretion, allocate the cost of such insurance premium increase to the Unit Owner.

Regards,
Steve

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Hm, this sounds like a SWIM complaint (someone who isn’t me – that is, YOU sound like you're the 5-year neighbor). Anyway, I like John’s approach – you’d be surprised how much headway you’d make by simply talking to one’s neighbor and doing something nice for them. Sometimes, people don't realize their habits are causing problems until someone points them out. The trick is in finding the right words and timing.

That said, if this has been going on for five years, I wonder why no one hasn’t talked to the nephew before now. I suspect the lady refused the neighbor’s offer to take out the trash regularly because she doesn’t want it to appear she needs help (even if she does), or there’s a dementia issue going on. People have their pride and senior citizens are terrified of losing their independence, which is why some will do things or refuse to because they think a domino effect will ensue and they lose control over everything. I also wonder what’s the deal with the cleaning lady – why would you set the bags outside and leave them (they’re not going to walk themselves to the dumpster).

Anyway, a formal complaint will be necessary, but I’d also couple that with contacting a local area agency on aging and perhaps Adult Protective Services for a wellness check, as some have already suggested. If the neighbor is having problems with pests coming in from that unit, the inside of the lady’s place could be much worse – maybe you have a hoarding situation, and you don't want that to morph into an issue for the local health department. At 97, it may be time for the lady to live in some sort of senior citizen housing where housekeeping is provided. In fact, if the nephew doesn’t get along with her, it may be he's made that suggestion, but she's said hell to the naw (due to the dementia and/or pride).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PamelaC8 (Florida)
Posts: 37

Posted:

Hello , We have something like that, it mentions trash also. It states to keep the trash in your unit until taken to the compactor and details on how to put it in the compactor and thats it. It does not mention clean and sanitary condition. We had a nusiance rule but they changed it concerning noise to now say if you can hear it outside of the unit it is a nusiance, no longer inside the unit. There are two residents that know the nephews contact information and neither will give it saying they don't want to be in the middle, the nephew lives in Georgia, this is Florida. Yes as you all have guessed I am the 5 year resident. I apologize if I don't really belong here and will go away. I just need help and the HOA here is not helpful. I was shocked to find that that I have to pay for pest control. Without seeing the creatures the pest company states they are german roaches and you pay for that treatment. I have lived three other places before this and I never had a problem with any roaches so I am kind of pulling my hair out. Well my husband and I have decided after our second pest treatment if they have not gone we will make a move . I will definetly get the nephews info, call some elderly programs about this. I thank all of you for your suggestions and help and I will keep it all in mind. Thank you.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaC8 on 05/17/2022 10:09 AM
Yes as you all have guessed I am the 5 year resident.

PamelaC8, as far as I am concerned, you are welcome here at HOATalk.

In any situation posted here, many of us are fine with people not saying who they are in the situation. Many of us members here at hoatalk know that a person who posts here risks retaliation from their HOA, neighbor, et cetera.

Many a time the counsel here ultimately can be to move.

Good luck.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

You shouldn’t be too surprised you have to pay for pest control – the critters being there can very well be your fault (some hitch a ride on whatever you, a friend, your pet, or whatever brings into the house). Maybe you aren’t as sparkling clean in all things as you think you are. And who’s to say they aren’t coming from another house?

And you don’t have to run away from this website – nearly everyone here is a homeowner and some are or have been board members, so it’s helpful to get perspective from different people.

Your neighbors who have the nephews’ information aren’t particularly helpful, are they? You’re not asking them to get in the middle of this – you simply want to talk to them to see if they can intercede on your behalf. If they don’t want to get involved, what’s wrong with them forwarding your contact information to the nephews so they can contact you. With that attitude, I suspect they haven’t bothered to help this lady for the same reason (and then people wonder why things happen to them – or not. What you put in this world, you’ll get back eventually, so why not try to be helpful once in a while?)

Anyway, I would definitely call APS and the local area agency on aging. APS is trained on drawing out elders who flat out refuse to get help and if they see any indication of self-neglect, there may be some things they can do, like pursue an emergency guardianship to get the lady out of there (depending on how bad the house looks). Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 05/16/2022 4:05 PM
If the trash bags are sitting outside why doesn't the neighbor just carry them down and be the good Samaritan? He or she doesn't even need to tell the 97 year old what they are doing.

Bingo, be the superhero, knock on this lady's door and see if she needs anything, milk, eggs, take her trash to the dumpster for her. Make her feel that neighbors are looking out for her.
thats the way I was raised.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 05/17/2022 4:54 PM
Posted By JohnT38 on 05/16/2022 4:05 PM
If the trash bags are sitting outside why doesn't the neighbor just carry them down and be the good Samaritan? He or she doesn't even need to tell the 97 year old what they are doing.

Very good idea. I was thinking the same thing. Sometimes it's more simple than what we anticipate. But the neighbor may also reject offers of help like she did once before but it's worth trying again.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

In this case I would not hesitate to call adult protective services and ask them to do a wellness check. I would not feel guilty about that at all. Someone that age who does not leave the house is probably living in awful conditions. Yes, you have a trash and insect problem with her but you are not retaliating and in fact may be extending her life.

I have an absolutely horrific story of a relative who, even though she was living with a relative, would have been saved a lot of agony if someone had just called for help. We lived out of state and had no idea. I have seen two older single friends in my neighborhood who definitely should not have been living alone.

I think we all hesitate to call the authorities on anyone because we don't want to be "that" neighbor and don't want to intrude. But it's a kindness to have someone look in on an older person who may no longer be able to cope.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What Lori said!

I went through the same situation with a close relative. Among other things she cussed out the neighbors both sides (she thought one was gaslighting her up and accused him of some bizarre stuff). A neighbor overheard the cussing one day and called APS with his/her concern. I don't know who made the call and since I live out of state, I didn't know how bad things had gotten.

Eventually, I spoke to the APS investigator and a few other neighbors who gave me valuable information we used to get our relative some help. they knew She had issues, but tried to look out for her as best they could because they knew She lived alone and was also in her 90s and most of her relatives lived out of state like me.

She protested loudly about accepting help because she didn't want people "in her business" but soon her health began to fail in a big way to where she couldn't live alone anymore. Now she has a POA and lives in an assisted living facility. And she's happier (and I suspect the neighbor is grateful for the peace and quiet!)

Sometimes we get so caught up debating what HOA documents say or don't say, we don't think of looking beyond that and deal with the heart of the problem. It's not that the CCRs and rule enforcement aren't important, but often you can save a lot of time and trouble by talking to the person and Being a good neighbor. That may mean shutting your yap and listen objectively to the other side. You don't have to agree, but when you try to look at things from another perspective (or two, maybe three), You may find some common ground and you can build from that. No, it doesn't always work, but at least make the effort (if nothing else, you can document what you did and use that if you need to throw hands in court.)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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