open source TLDR for statutes

Started by SteveH35 • 10 replies • 266 views

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SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

I'm planning to create a TLDR for CIC and nonprofit statutes that breaks them down into meaningful, contextual chunks across state lines (not simply on their own individual sites or pages). This kind of project seems like it should have been done years ago by the Foundation for Community Association Research, but does not meaningfully exist, except in very small batches.

It would certainly help to have contributors from multiple states. If you're interested in participating, please feel free to connect: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/Contact.

Regards,
Steve

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Steve

Many things depend on an associations docs, not which state they are in. How do you anticipated dealing with this?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Statutes and rulings continue to change. By the time such a document was created and fully reviewed by attorneys, it could be out of date and who would be passionate enough to continually update it.

To be all inclusive, it would need to have applicable Federal and State statutes. Federal agency rulings. State and County codes and, perhaps, city ordinances. Additionally, as has been pointed out, governing documents comes into play as well.

Ambitious project.
Would need a team just for one area.

If you really want to do it this, start small.
I'd suggest your own HOA/COA and see how much time and effort it will really take.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/15/2022 3:35 PM
Statutes and rulings continue to change. By the time such a document was created and fully reviewed by attorneys, it could be out of date and who would be passionate enough to continually update it.

To be all inclusive, it would need to have applicable Federal and State statutes. Federal agency rulings. State and County codes and, perhaps, city ordinances. Additionally, as has been pointed out, governing documents comes into play as well.

Ambitious project.
Would need a team just for one area.

If you really want to do it this, start small.
I'd suggest your own HOA/COA and see how much time and effort it will really take.

This project is not about individual CIC docs. Every organization needs to figure out their own governance and honestly the concepts are all that matter from the public's perspective. The weeds are only important to a given community (and maybe some kind folks on public message boards like this).

The majority of CIC and nonprofit statues remain the same for years. This just takes time and organization. I'm trying to identify one volunteer per state. Two states down. 48 to go! I estimate about 10 hours or less per state, so the request is for around 10 hours of volunteer effort.

Regards,
Steve

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/15/2022 3:06 PM
Steve

Many things depend on an associations docs, not which state they are in. How do you anticipated dealing with this?

Declarations / CC&Rs and Bylaws are heavily based on state statutes. Many questions homeowners have (reference topics on this forum and others) can be resolved by understanding statutes. One source (instead of hundreds of web references) will make a difference.

Here's an extremely preliminary skeleton of the document for anyone interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdEolnY0bpys-moraZf8rZdSjW85JLdbvhPtW3jt9Xw/edit?usp=sharing

Regards,
Seve

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

What do you intend to do with that document once it's done?

Post on a free website?
Publish in book form?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

It sounds like a product that would be sold to HOAs and/or property management companies.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 05/15/2022 5:23 PM
It sounds like a product that would be sold to HOAs and/or property management companies.

Nope, it's intended to be open source. Don't worry Michael, I have Washington State covered.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/15/2022 5:21 PM
What do you intend to do with that document once it's done?
Post on a free website?
Publish in book form?

Tim,
I don't think a book would be meaningful because books are difficult to update and, sadly, the appetite to spend money on educational products for CICs is low to nonexistent. Assuming I can find some willing volunteers to open-source the project, the goal is to publish it online. There's more complexity and nested references to deal with the framework of the document itself, but that will all get sorted out by working through the first 5 states worth of data.

This is a compelling project because there are no less than half a dozen messages on this forum from the last few days that demanded statutory references and where posters asked "what are my statutes?" You can certainly look things up methodically through https://www.hopb.co/hoa-state-laws and the like, but I'm trying to do something that brings the concepts to the surface. For example, say you want to know about disclosure. You should be able to find the disclosure section, reference your state, reference your community type and construction age and get an answer. You could then also view referential information from all the other states about the same concept.

Regards,
Steve

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/15/2022 1:29 PM
I'm planning to create a TLDR for CIC and nonprofit statutes that breaks them down into meaningful, contextual chunks across state lines (not simply on their own individual sites or pages).

Contextual chunks of what? Are you saying these "contextual chunks," when assembled, would be some kind of summary? I am not sure this could trump google.

The way the words are put together in statute sections matter. I would not find a summary helpful. Particularly when looking up the pertinent HOA/COA statutes and nonprofit corporation statutes, and then doing a keyword search is easy. As I trust you have seen, a site like hoatalk.com has folks often looking up the pertinent statutes and maybe a bit of case law (maybe from their HOA/COA attorney?) for any state that comes along.

This site summarizes and provide links to all the states' HOA/COA and nonprofit corp statutes:
https://www.hopb.co/hoa-state-laws

The Restatement (Third) of Property: Servitudes summarizes the case law state by state and topic by topic for common interest communities. That the Restatement is not available online for free is a pity. Many of those who have been posting here for years would instantly recognize many of the principles of which the Restatement's short summaries of actual, state-by-state case law speak.

I am aware HUD has "rulings" on interpreting the Fair Housing Act. Else I have doubts "federal rulings" come into play much with HOAs/COAs. Unless you mean the rare federal appeals court or even Supreme Court case that addresses some relatively arcane bit of the law of real property and covenants that may have an impact once in a great while on HOA/COA law?

Perhaps one problem is HOAtalk.com is the competition. It's a crowd sourced, sometimes Socratic, dialectic; sandbox; and online bar, sans booze, with a number of fine, well-trained bartenders and pretend bouncers. (I think there's only one bona fide hoatalk bouncer, and I think he/she is either not around much or is a master of subterfuge.) Folks love to interact and be heard. I am not aware of other sites with such high attendance. I trust the posters here are making the owner of the site a bit of money, somehow.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Well, a place that might be helpful is/was a sponsor of this site that I have referenced many times:

Community Associations Network

Select a State from their drop down menu (under "State Resources" in the far right column) and you will be taken to a page with the latest news, links to statutes, articles specific to that State and additional resources.

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