New BOD First Meeting and a Revelation

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.

During a general discussion concerning financial matters, I voiced the opinion that we need to consider a dues increase for 2023. Each of them each said that is why I volunteered to be on the BOD. I cannot afford a dues increase thus I will not agree with any. I replied (a bit harshly I must admit)that, I think the two of you are going to have to learn that this BOD represents our entire association and we will do the right thing even if you are against something. You should not be on this BOD to "protect yourselves" at the cost of our association. We must do right for the entire association not just for our personal good.

One approached me after the end of the meeting and told me that what I said made sense. She said I do not want a dues increase but if I believe it is needed, I would vote for it.

The 3 incumbents, myself included are leaning toward a dues increase from $80 per month to at least $90 if not to $100 per month and we 3 basically think alike so we could make it happen. We can only increase dues once a year, on or before 12/01 to become effective 01/01 so we are no where near doing such at this time. There is a reason for this increase and it has to do with needed repair/replacement of fences. We have money in the reserves but things are happening faster and more expensively then we had planned on

My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM

My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

Probably many, but at least one on your board sounds open minded on responsibility. Although I would see nothing wrong with a Board member advocating a minority opinion view and voting as such, and that minority opinion view could just be a single view.

My POA has a more extreme problem. Some on the Board not only are their to push their own agendas that have shown to not care what other Board members think, instead just doing what they want from entering contracts on which the Board did not vote to county filings of guideline amendments to CCRs without the Board voting on it. I know, I know.....if some writes that is wrong....but no one in the subdivision cares enough to do anything about it.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM
Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.
My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

John, according to the Volunteer Involvement Survey (https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/surveys/volunteerism), the third most popular reason folks volunteer is "to help address a specific concern or project." The two most popular answers are, respectively, "I jumped in when nobody else was willing to help" and "I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering."

We have a volunteer who, in my opinion, joined our Board last year to ensure that our property got EV charging sorted out. This person spent a lot of time and energy spearheading a complete EV framework (with help from some other volunteers as well). Long story short, we have EV sorted out now, but the other duties this person takes on do no reflect time and dedication related to EV. That's just how it works.

Regards,
Steve

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Steve

You said #2 reason is I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering. That is why I stay on. I am afraid some other Ahole will get on.......LOL

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM

My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

I think most get on the board with at least one item (be it infrastructure; the manager; or some other narrow issue) to fix in mind. I would not call one item "an agenda" though.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM

My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

My experience is that every new Board member has the platform of lowering dues. Over the course of their term, they either get frustrated that they are unsuccessful in lowering dues and quit; or abandon the platform after they realize that we need dues to maintain the community.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 11:12 AM

You said #2 reason is I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering. That is why I stay on. I am afraid some other Ahole will get on.......LOL

We had a board member volunteer a few years ago who expressed literally "no agenda." This person also had no interest in individual governance participation (e.g. allowing someone else to instruct how to vote on specific issues, etc.). Given that experience, there's a better chance, all other things being equal, that candidates who have at least *ONE* goal mind beyond "I'm willing to volunteer, but I have no idea what I'm getting myself into" will benefit your community. I've often heard folks worry about "we don't have enough volunteers" but never solve for "how are we supporting the few volunteers we already have?" and "what are the criteria that are important to help the association operate within the requirements of the law, our governing documents, and in the best interest of our owners?"

Regards,
Steve

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 11:12 AM

You said #2 reason is I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering. That is why I stay on. I am afraid some other Ahole will get on.......LOL

OH. I forgot to post one of my favorite quotes:

"The problem is that good governance, whether in the public or private sector, depends on the initiative and leadership of good people. Having the time and the desire to serve is no thte same as having the common sense, judgment, and character to serve well. Lapses in the vetting process, coupled with the absence of any competition for the job, can product "governors" who, at best, are uninspired and, at worst, draconian (if not morally deficient) in approach."

That's from Paula A. Franzese's Privatization and Its Discontents: Common Interest Communities and the Rise of Government for "the Nice." If you haven't read it, or some of the other academic work from 20 to 25 years ago, I highly recommend it. I have a list of good reads here for anyone interested: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/PUBLICATIONS#h.jjbf83t9nlo. You can access all of them with a free JSTOR account.

Regards,
Steve

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Hard to say, but at least half. And once they're on the board and they see what type of stuff the board must address, and actually have to READ contracts and their documents, they'll either calm down and begin to apply careful thought to the issues - or render themselves utterly useless because everything comes down to money, which they don't want to spend, regardless of what it's for. Those folks will either continue to look and act ridiculous or they'll soon drop out.

Of course, if you end up with a majority of people like this, that's when the trouble begins, especially if you have homeowners who either don't give a whit or are just as short-sighted as they are....

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 11:12 AM
Steve

You said #2 reason is I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering. That is why I stay on. I am afraid some other Ahole will get on.......LOL

That's why I stayed on my board for 10 years (and ended up stepping down due to major burnout). I figure if crazy decisions are going to be made anyway, I may as well have a hand in it (and perhaps be able to mitigate some of the fallout)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

STEVEH35,

I love that quote. ..

JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM

My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

everyone has an agenda. if the leader of the free world blatantly lies and incites a riot and is never held accountable, why would a tiny hoa board member think any different?

JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/13/2022 11:08 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM
Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.
My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

John, according to the Volunteer Involvement Survey (https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/surveys/volunteerism), the third most popular reason folks volunteer is "to help address a specific concern or project." The two most popular answers are, respectively, "I jumped in when nobody else was willing to help" and "I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering."

We have a volunteer who, in my opinion, joined our Board last year to ensure that our property got EV charging sorted out. This person spent a lot of time and energy spearheading a complete EV framework (with help from some other volunteers as well). Long story short, we have EV sorted out now, but the other duties this person takes on do no reflect time and dedication related to EV. That's just how it works.

Regards,
Steve

why are you links being blocked?
posting rules copied below do not say no links are allowed? please admins don't do this.

This is a positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn. This forum is for community association Boards, Committees, Volunteers & HOA Professionals to discuss topics concerning their association duties.

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

We have only a few other rules:

(1) Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly.

(2) No Selling: No solicitation, advertising, or selling of any kind is allowed here, except for occasional announcements from official site sponsors.

(3) No Mention of Community/Company/Person Names: In order to fairly enforce (2) and prevent liability, we do not allow the mentioning of any community name, company name or product. Please also do not post the full name of any person.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I only know my HOA of 200+ high rise 21 y.o. gated urban condo. I served 7 2-year terms until 11/21 probably with about 20 other directors.

I don't recall any wanting to lower dues, but a few who wanted to better understand our budgets & reserves and seek efficiencies.

I recall at least three who mainly were interested in landscaping (we have 6,000sf of hardscape) and other exterior & interior aesthetic topics. Two were or had been interior designers

We had two mainly concerned about security, i.e., our contract, the officers' duties (our vendor supplies us with 5 officers 24/7) and related rules.

We've have none interested in our very complicated infrastructure of elevators, rooftop HVAC cooling towers, boilers and such. A few, and I was one, learned a lot about those items during our contstruction defect actions.

We had one who clearly was trying to build her real estate portfolio of listings, etc. She didn't last her 2-year term.

We had one, who "served" 3-4 terms only for the purpose of "being in the know." He contributed almost zero.

We had one who immediately fell behind in his dues and stayed on for some sort of protection by a weak president. He sold & didn't finish her his term.

We have had and still do several who're interested in the overall health and reputation of our towers and take quite an all-encompassing approach. Perhaps a total of 5-6 of us over time. All were/are recent retirees from out of the area who want something interesting and positive to fill their newly-found leisure. They tended to come from and administrative professional backgrounds, two with MPAs.

All I can think of at the moment.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/16/2022 3:21 PM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/13/2022 11:08 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM
Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.
My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

John, according to the Volunteer Involvement Survey (search for "volunteer involvement survey" using quotes like that and you'll find it), the third most popular reason folks volunteer is "to help address a specific concern or project." The two most popular answers are, respectively, "I jumped in when nobody else was willing to help" and "I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering."

We have a volunteer who, in my opinion, joined our Board last year to ensure that our property got EV charging sorted out. This person spent a lot of time and energy spearheading a complete EV framework (with help from some other volunteers as well). Long story short, we have EV sorted out now, but the other duties this person takes on do no reflect time and dedication related to EV. That's just how it works.

Regards,
Steve

why are you links being blocked?
posting rules copied below do not say no links are allowed? please admins don't do this.

This is a positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn. This forum is for community association Boards, Committees, Volunteers & HOA Professionals to discuss topics concerning their association duties.

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

We have only a few other rules:
(1) Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly.
(2) No Selling: No solicitation, advertising, or selling of any kind is allowed here, except for occasional announcements from official site sponsors.
(3) No Mention of Community/Company/Person Names: In order to fairly enforce (2) and prevent liability, we do not allow the mentioning of any community name, company name or product. Please also do not post the full name of any person.

John, there's a very small contingent (5 people) here on the forum that expressed discontent with a volunteer leader (me) who has a free website (that's not actually profitable) posting content examples that aren't suitable to re-type here. Other websites (run by businesses actually making a profit) seem to be OK (Davis-Sterling, CAI, and so many others). I scratch my head.

After someone ran to Community123, the unnamed Zendesk overlord wrote to me. I replied letting "The Wizard" know that they should ban all URLs in the rules if they want absolutely nothing to do with "businesses." I'm certainly not making a dime posting anything on this forum. That's actually laughable. Pouring your time into all things CIC isn't a profitable endeavor. The money is being made by the "industry." Definitely not by me.

Regards,
Steve

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/16/2022 6:06 PM

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/16/2022 3:21 PM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/13/2022 11:08 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM
Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.
My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

John, according to the Volunteer Involvement Survey (search for "volunteer involvement survey" using quotes like that and you'll find it), the third most popular reason folks volunteer is "to help address a specific concern or project." The two most popular answers are, respectively, "I jumped in when nobody else was willing to help" and "I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering."

We have a volunteer who, in my opinion, joined our Board last year to ensure that our property got EV charging sorted out. This person spent a lot of time and energy spearheading a complete EV framework (with help from some other volunteers as well). Long story short, we have EV sorted out now, but the other duties this person takes on do no reflect time and dedication related to EV. That's just how it works.

Regards,
Steve

why are you links being blocked?
posting rules copied below do not say no links are allowed? please admins don't do this.

This is a positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn. This forum is for community association Boards, Committees, Volunteers & HOA Professionals to discuss topics concerning their association duties.

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

We have only a few other rules:
(1) Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly.
(2) No Selling: No solicitation, advertising, or selling of any kind is allowed here, except for occasional announcements from official site sponsors.
(3) No Mention of Community/Company/Person Names: In order to fairly enforce (2) and prevent liability, we do not allow the mentioning of any community name, company name or product. Please also do not post the full name of any person.

John, there's a very small contingent (5 people) here on the forum that expressed discontent with a volunteer leader (me) who has a free website (that's not actually profitable) posting content examples that aren't suitable to re-type here. Other websites (run by businesses actually making a profit) seem to be OK (Davis-Sterling, CAI, and so many others). I scratch my head.

After someone ran to Community123, the unnamed Zendesk overlord wrote to me. I replied letting "The Wizard" know that they should ban all URLs in the rules if they want absolutely nothing to do with "businesses." I'm certainly not making a dime posting anything on this forum. That's actually laughable. Pouring your time into all things CIC isn't a profitable endeavor. The money is being made by the "industry." Definitely not by me.

Regards,
Steve

Steve, I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep bringing up the 5 people that complained. You mention that 5 people is a very small contingent as a way of minimizing the issue. I would argue that when you consider only the amount of regular posters here, 5 people is not insignificant. (How many others agree but didn't take the time to complain?)

I'm also not sure why every time you plead your case you bring up other sites that are mentioned here but you conveniently leave out the fact that it's not the owners of these sites making the posts that lead back to their own sites. In addition, every time you argue that you are posting a link to your free site you always leave out that it is designed to lead the viewer to your other site that is very much a for profit business. One could argue that the pages on your free site are basically Landing Pages for your for profit site. Given your background in technology, you are obviously well versed on how to drive traffic to you main business site.

The bottom line is people have complained and you are still here and able to link to your "free" site so there should be no issue going forward. There was no need for you to post a reply outlining how you think you've been picked on and misunderstood. HOATalk has chosen not to take action so what's the issue?

I think it's obvious that you have a lot of good knowledge to share here and that's a good thing.

JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 05/17/2022 4:46 AM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/16/2022 6:06 PM

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/16/2022 3:21 PM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/13/2022 11:08 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/13/2022 10:56 AM
Our new BOD met last night for the first time sine Annual Meeting BOD Elections. Three incumbents (myself included) and two new Members. The two new were volunteers at the Annual Meeting to be on the BOD.
My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

John, according to the Volunteer Involvement Survey (search for "volunteer involvement survey" using quotes like that and you'll find it), the third most popular reason folks volunteer is "to help address a specific concern or project." The two most popular answers are, respectively, "I jumped in when nobody else was willing to help" and "I'm afraid of what would happen if I quit volunteering."

We have a volunteer who, in my opinion, joined our Board last year to ensure that our property got EV charging sorted out. This person spent a lot of time and energy spearheading a complete EV framework (with help from some other volunteers as well). Long story short, we have EV sorted out now, but the other duties this person takes on do no reflect time and dedication related to EV. That's just how it works.

Regards,
Steve

why are you links being blocked?
posting rules copied below do not say no links are allowed? please admins don't do this.

This is a positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn. This forum is for community association Boards, Committees, Volunteers & HOA Professionals to discuss topics concerning their association duties.

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

We have only a few other rules:
(1) Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly.
(2) No Selling: No solicitation, advertising, or selling of any kind is allowed here, except for occasional announcements from official site sponsors.
(3) No Mention of Community/Company/Person Names: In order to fairly enforce (2) and prevent liability, we do not allow the mentioning of any community name, company name or product. Please also do not post the full name of any person.

John, there's a very small contingent (5 people) here on the forum that expressed discontent with a volunteer leader (me) who has a free website (that's not actually profitable) posting content examples that aren't suitable to re-type here. Other websites (run by businesses actually making a profit) seem to be OK (Davis-Sterling, CAI, and so many others). I scratch my head.

After someone ran to Community123, the unnamed Zendesk overlord wrote to me. I replied letting "The Wizard" know that they should ban all URLs in the rules if they want absolutely nothing to do with "businesses." I'm certainly not making a dime posting anything on this forum. That's actually laughable. Pouring your time into all things CIC isn't a profitable endeavor. The money is being made by the "industry." Definitely not by me.

Regards,
Steve

Steve, I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep bringing up the 5 people that complained. You mention that 5 people is a very small contingent as a way of minimizing the issue. I would argue that when you consider only the amount of regular posters here, 5 people is not insignificant. (How many others agree but didn't take the time to complain?)

I'm also not sure why every time you plead your case you bring up other sites that are mentioned here but you conveniently leave out the fact that it's not the owners of these sites making the posts that lead back to their own sites. In addition, every time you argue that you are posting a link to your free site you always leave out that it is designed to lead the viewer to your other site that is very much a for profit business. One could argue that the pages on your free site are basically Landing Pages for your for profit site. Given your background in technology, you are obviously well versed on how to drive traffic to you main business site.

The bottom line is people have complained and you are still here and able to link to your "free" site so there should be no issue going forward. There was no need for you to post a reply outlining how you think you've been picked on and misunderstood. HOATalk has chosen not to take action so what's the issue?

I think it's obvious that you have a lot of good knowledge to share here and that's a good thing.

cause as I mentioned before there are no rules against posting links.
I thought HOA's were all about following the rules, yet when the wizard blocks links that's a blatant censorship.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/20/2022 12:44 PM
I thought HOA's were all about following the rules, yet when the wizard blocks links that's a blatant censorship.

Violating what law?

The site is privately owned. The owners of the site can edit or remove any post they want.

JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/20/2022 12:46 PM

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/20/2022 12:44 PM
I thought HOA's were all about following the rules, yet when the wizard blocks links that's a blatant censorship.

Violating what law?

The site is privately owned. The owners of the site can edit or remove any post they want.

sure they can if they are amoral cowards. any good admin would follow their own rules. or are you advocating hypocrisy as a good characteristic?

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/20/2022 12:53 PM

Posted By AugustinD on 05/20/2022 12:46 PM

The site is privately owned. The owners of the site can edit or remove any post they want.

sure they can if they are amoral cowards. any good admin would follow their own rules.

-- I think the moderator here is following the site's rules, regarding advertising. You do not. Oh well.

-- One person's amoral coward is another person's business owner enforcing rules for what the business owner sees as the well-being of the business.

-- You can always set up your own web forum for HOAs/COAs. When people google, it will come up.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 05/17/2022 4:46 AM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/16/2022 6:06 PM
I'm also not sure why every time you plead your case you bring up other sites that are mentioned here but you conveniently leave out the fact that it's not the owners of these sites making the posts that lead back to their own sites. In addition, every time you argue that you are posting a link to your free site you always leave out that it is designed to lead the viewer to your other site that is very much a for profit business. One could argue that the pages on your free site are basically Landing Pages for your for profit site.

Oh! I’d been wondering why something seemed a bit off … but now it all makes sense.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/20/2022 1:02 PM

Posted By JustinT5 on 05/20/2022 12:53 PM

Posted By AugustinD on 05/20/2022 12:46 PM

The site is privately owned. The owners of the site can edit or remove any post they want.

sure they can if they are amoral cowards. any good admin would follow their own rules.

-- I think the moderator here is following the site's rules, regarding advertising. You do not. Oh well.

-- One person's amoral coward is another person's business owner enforcing rules for what the business owner sees as the well-being of the business.

-- You can always set up your own web forum for HOAs/COAs. When people google, it will come up.

yep already have. if the mod would of noted link was blocked due to advertising, that would be better. however sounds like it's a free website.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

> My issue is how many do you think get on a BOD with their own agenda? I think most do.

I think a lot of people are driven to get involved because they have an agenda. But I don’t see this as a bad thing. IME, people who are working towards a goal are often more competent than people who signed up to be a ‘caretaker’.

Granted, some people might have an Evil Agenda. But I’m inclined to think it’s uncommon in HOAland. Anyone who has a serious interest in criminal power / money / influence wouldn’t waste their time in an HOA; they’d go straight into local / regional politics. Or money laundering in the Ozarks, or something like that.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”