Condo inspection before sale - HOA responsibility

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

During an inspection to sell their condo, there were 'water spots' found above a water heater. The current owner submitted a work order to have this inspected and fixed prior to sale. Is it appropriate to request a copy of the inspection report? If this is not 'fixed' (whatever that means) and the buyer backs out of the sale - is the HOA responsible? I doubt it could be fixed in a week which is what we have been told. We have asked if the buyer and realtor is aware of the HOA responsibilities but have yet to get a response. Since the HOA is responsible for the roofs, are we obligated to inspect and fix this issue prior to closing of the home?

We are involved in a 'claim/lawsuit' with the developer which includes inspecting all roofs/attic spaces/ceilings etc and have an engineer coming out before the end of the month. We do understand that the roof is a responsibility of the HOA but if these spots have been there for a few years, we would prefer to have this home included in our professional inspection and, of course, fix if found continual damage would happen if no action is taken. I hope I have given a good synopsis of the issue.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

CathyB7, are you the seller? Are you on the Board?

Please avoid pronouns that do not identify who has what role here.

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

My apologies - I am a board member. I am not the seller - this is a condo within our comunity.

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

My apologies - I am a board member. I am not the seller - this is a condo within our comunity.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 9:55 AM
CathyB7, are you the seller? Are you on the Board?

Please avoid pronouns that do not identify who has what role here.

What the hell is a pronoun?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Responsibility will depend on:

* how your CC&Rs define "unit", "common elements", and "limited/exclusive use common elements"

* how your CC&Rs define unit owner responsibilities and association responsibilities

* and possibly what kind of insurance the association and individual owners carry

Typically the association does not take care of repairs inside a condo, but it will depend on what your individual CC&Rs say about the items above.

Some people believe that the association is responsible for any damage originating in the common elements, but this is not true in my community. It depends on the nature of the damage and whether it is due to an insurable event or to routine wear and tear.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 05/09/2022 10:05 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 9:55 AM
CathyB7, are you the seller? Are you on the Board?

Please avoid pronouns that do not identify who has what role here.

What the hell is a pronoun?

In case this was a serious question: I, me, you, he, him, she, her, it, they, them

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 05/09/2022 10:06 AM
Responsibility will depend on:

* how your CC&Rs define "unit", "common elements", and "limited/exclusive use common elements"

* how your CC&Rs define unit owner responsibilities and association responsibilities

* and possibly what kind of insurance the association and individual owners carry

Typically the association does not take care of repairs inside a condo, but it will depend on what your individual CC&Rs say about the items above.

Some people believe that the association is responsible for any damage originating in the common elements, but this is not true in my community. It depends on the nature of the damage and whether it is due to an insurable event or to routine wear and tear.

Agree. Some people also believe that the association is responsible for damages cause by another unit. In North Carolina, per our CCR'S, generally everyone pays for their own damages whether an HOA common element or caused by a failure in another unit.

If this condo were located in our condo community, the owner/seller would be responsible for the repair.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Something to consider: if you're including this condo in the inspections or other work related to the lawsuit, you may have to offer it to every other owner. I would expect the plaintiff to have an issue with even one unit, and your association's attorney may have something to say about widening the scope of the suit.

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Thank you and yes - all condo's are included and will be inspected. The HO is responsible for fixing what is inside their unit. So, yes, they would have to fix the drywall above the water heater. They want an inspection to ensure there is not a leak in the roof. All are condo's are one story so no leaks from neighbor in the ceiling.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 9:52 AM
During an inspection to sell their condo, there were 'water spots' found above a water heater. The current owner submitted a work order to have this inspected and fixed prior to sale. Is it appropriate to request a copy of the inspection report?

Re-phrasing:

Is asking the buyer to provide a copy of the buyer's home inspector report appropriate?

I say yes. The buyer can always say no. Though I do not know why the buyer would decline.

Quote:

If this is not 'fixed' (whatever that means) and the buyer backs out of the sale - is the HOA responsible?

The COA should make any repairs that the governing documents require and no more. If the COA maintains that it is not responsible for the repairs, while the seller says, "Wrong. The COA is responsible for these repairs," and knowing people can sue for anything, then sure, the seller might sue the COA.

Quote:

I doubt it could be fixed in a week which is what we have been told. We have asked if the buyer and realtor is aware of the HOA responsibilities but have yet to get a response. Since the HOA is responsible for the roofs, are we obligated to inspect and fix this issue prior to closing of the home?

I think the Board should just give its honest answer. If the Buyer wants some assurance of the timeline for the repair, then the board should offer what it can, including a qualifier such as "no guarantees."

Quote:

We are involved in a 'claim/lawsuit' with the developer which includes inspecting all roofs/attic spaces/ceilings etc and have an engineer coming out before the end of the month. We do understand that the roof is a responsibility of the HOA but if these spots have been there for a few years, we would prefer to have this home included in our professional inspection and, of course, fix if found continual damage would happen if no action is taken. I hope I have given a good synopsis of the issue.

IMO if this is the reality of the situation, the board should simply disclose it and let the buyer and seller hash it out. You folks on the board do not have super powers to make things happen instantly, after all.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 9:52 AM
During an inspection to sell their condo, there were 'water spots' found above a water heater. The current owner submitted a work order to have this inspected and fixed prior to sale. Is it appropriate to request a copy of the inspection report? If this is not 'fixed' (whatever that means) and the buyer backs out of the sale - is the HOA responsible? I doubt it could be fixed in a week which is what we have been told. We have asked if the buyer and realtor is aware of the HOA responsibilities but have yet to get a response. Since the HOA is responsible for the roofs, are we obligated to inspect and fix this issue prior to closing of the home?

We are involved in a 'claim/lawsuit' with the developer which includes inspecting all roofs/attic spaces/ceilings etc and have an engineer coming out before the end of the month. We do understand that the roof is a responsibility of the HOA but if these spots have been there for a few years, we would prefer to have this home included in our professional inspection and, of course, fix if found continual damage would happen if no action is taken. I hope I have given a good synopsis of the issue.

Cathy,

In many states, the "walls-in" nature of "water spots found above a water heater" would be a Unit Owner responsibility. Every condominium should have a responsibility matrix that clearly outlines components and who is responsible: 1) for expense and 2) executing maintenance, repair and replacement. Feel free to check out this resource example of a responsibility matrix: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/governance/GOVERNINGDOCS/responsibility

Regards,
Steve

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 11:45 AM

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 9:52 AM
During an inspection to sell their condo, there were 'water spots' found above a water heater. The current owner submitted a work order to have this inspected and fixed prior to sale. Is it appropriate to request a copy of the inspection report? If this is not 'fixed' (whatever that means) and the buyer backs out of the sale - is the HOA responsible? I doubt it could be fixed in a week which is what we have been told. We have asked if the buyer and realtor is aware of the HOA responsibilities but have yet to get a response. Since the HOA is responsible for the roofs, are we obligated to inspect and fix this issue prior to closing of the home?

We are involved in a 'claim/lawsuit' with the developer which includes inspecting all roofs/attic spaces/ceilings etc and have an engineer coming out before the end of the month. We do understand that the roof is a responsibility of the HOA but if these spots have been there for a few years, we would prefer to have this home included in our professional inspection and, of course, fix if found continual damage would happen if no action is taken. I hope I have given a good synopsis of the issue.

Cathy,

In many states, the "walls-in" nature of "water spots found above a water heater" would be a Unit Owner responsibility. Every condominium should have a responsibility matrix that clearly outlines components and who is responsible: 1) for expense and 2) executing maintenance, repair and replacement. Feel free to check out this resource example of a responsibility matrix: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/governance/GOVERNINGDOCS/responsibility

Regards,
Steve

Steve

The real issue is where are the water spots coming from, not the spots themselves. If coming from the roof, the HOA will be responsible for correcting the leak. The owner for repairing the actual spots on his ceiling.

SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/09/2022 1:29 PM

Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 11:45 AM

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 9:52 AM
During an inspection to sell their condo, there were 'water spots' found above a water heater. The current owner submitted a work order to have this inspected and fixed prior to sale. Is it appropriate to request a copy of the inspection report? If this is not 'fixed' (whatever that means) and the buyer backs out of the sale - is the HOA responsible? I doubt it could be fixed in a week which is what we have been told. We have asked if the buyer and realtor is aware of the HOA responsibilities but have yet to get a response. Since the HOA is responsible for the roofs, are we obligated to inspect and fix this issue prior to closing of the home?

We are involved in a 'claim/lawsuit' with the developer which includes inspecting all roofs/attic spaces/ceilings etc and have an engineer coming out before the end of the month. We do understand that the roof is a responsibility of the HOA but if these spots have been there for a few years, we would prefer to have this home included in our professional inspection and, of course, fix if found continual damage would happen if no action is taken. I hope I have given a good synopsis of the issue.

Cathy,

In many states, the "walls-in" nature of "water spots found above a water heater" would be a Unit Owner responsibility. Every condominium should have a responsibility matrix that clearly outlines components and who is responsible: 1) for expense and 2) executing maintenance, repair and replacement. Feel free to check out this resource example of a responsibility matrix: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/governance/GOVERNINGDOCS/responsibility

Regards,
Steve

Steve

The real issue is where are the water spots coming from, not the spots themselves. If coming from the roof, the HOA will be responsible for correcting the leak. The owner for repairing the actual spots on his ceiling.

John,

Absolutely agree on root cause analysis, but as others have pointed out, there's also a contract between a buyer and a seller (that's the Form 17 in Washington State). Sellers have legal disclosure obligations to buyers. CICs are third parties who are not privy to the details of real property transactions. Above all else, CICs should remain neutral third parties.

Back to the OP's question, if the CIC performs an inspection of the common elements, the results (reports and findings) of that inspection are records of the association. *Every* owner in the CIC has a right to obtain a copy of that inspection report. Anyway, there's not much else to this, but having a responsibility matrix removes all the guesswork and need to decipher inscrutable run-on paragraphs of legalese in a declaration / CC&Rs.

Regards,
Steve

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Thanks to everyone for your insight. As the inside of the condo is the responsibility of the homeowner, I believe we will push back to the HO and let them know "per the CCR's Section.....etc" this is a homeowner responsibility and not the HOA. The buyer/seller then can hash it out. At this point, the HOA will stay clear.

Again, thanks for the insights - really appreciated.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 2:26 PM
Thanks to everyone for your insight. As the inside of the condo is the responsibility of the homeowner, I believe we will push back to the HO and let them know "per the CCR's Section.....etc" this is a homeowner responsibility and not the HOA. The buyer/seller then can hash it out. At this point, the HOA will stay clear.

I really hope the OP understands that, if the HOA is responsible for the roofs, and the damage was caused by improper roof maintenance, the HOA may very well be responsible.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 5:19 PM

Posted By CathyB7 on 05/09/2022 2:26 PM
Thanks to everyone for your insight. As the inside of the condo is the responsibility of the homeowner, I believe we will push back to the HO and let them know "per the CCR's Section.....etc" this is a homeowner responsibility and not the HOA. The buyer/seller then can hash it out. At this point, the HOA will stay clear.

I really hope the OP understands that, if the HOA is responsible for the roofs, and the damage was caused by improper roof maintenance, the HOA may very well be responsible.

And in your infinite wisdom and experience, what would you consider "improper roof maintenance"?

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 05/09/2022 5:25 PM
And in your infinite wisdom and experience, what would you consider "improper roof maintenance"?

Remove the snark from your question, and maybe I will respond.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 5:34 PM

Posted By MaxB4 on 05/09/2022 5:25 PM
And in your infinite wisdom and experience, what would you consider "improper roof maintenance"?

Remove the snark from your question, and maybe I will respond.

You can't

CathyB7 (Colorado)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Yes, we will absolutely let the buyer/seller know if the leak was found to be an issue with the roof, the HOA has accountability. I appreciate the thought.