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AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
See attachment. This is a New York Times article from today, about an apartment building in the Bronx, New York City. A nonprofit dedicated to establishing co-ops for low income folks bought the apartment building. Of the 21 studio units, seven are vacant. The 14 tenants will soon own their apartments.

Note how this started when the tenants met up at a nearby bar.

The nonprofit paid the landlord 2.6 million dollars (about $124,000 per unit) for the apartment building.

The tenants feel they defeated the landlord.
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CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I wonder how the tenants will feel when they discover that they are now their own "landlords"? People can be very enthusiastic about stickin' it to The Man until they discover that they ARE The Man...

I thought this was interesting:

"At least 80 percent of the tenants must take 12 hours of training with U.H.A.B. to learn how to own, manage and operate a co-op β€” yet another step that worries Mr. Hankins. What if all the tenants don’t finish the coursework? Among a host of legalities and fine print to complete, U.H.A.B. is also seeking a tax exemption for the property, which is critical to keep the apartments affordable." It would be nice if condo owners could be required to have similar training.

I could be totally off base, but I get the sense that co-ops can be more difficult than condos to manage. In other words, co-op owners really are financial and legal partners and are more aware of it even when things are going well - unlike condo owners who become aware of it mostly when things go wrong.

I know New York has condos as well as co-ops. I wonder what made U.H.A.B go with the co-op structure.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/06/2022 9:30 AM
See attachment. This is a New York Times article from today, about an apartment building in the Bronx, New York City. A nonprofit dedicated to establishing co-ops for low income folks bought the apartment building. Of the 21 studio units, seven are vacant. The 14 tenants will soon own their apartments.

Note how this started when the tenants met up at a nearby bar.

The nonprofit paid the landlord 2.6 million dollars (about $124,000 per unit) for the apartment building.

The tenants feel they defeated the landlord.

Thank you for posting the link. New York has taken making affordable housing available seriously, though need still outweighs the availability, through their lottery system required for new developments. And many years previously by rent control. This was a very interesting read and the resident's determination of searching for alternatives is very admirable.

Charlotte, NC and it's surrounding communities are struggling very badly with rental prices increasing beyond affordability. Recently a property doubled their rents.

There has to be some balance somewhere. When resident's cut back to pay for housing, the local economy suffers when disposable income shrinks. I guess only time will tell.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I LOVE THIS!!! This is what's possible when people come together and WORK for the good of everyone. It doesn't mean the process will be quick or easy, but you do find out pretty quickly who's serious about making their community a better place to live as opposed to complaining all the time and doing nothing.

I like the idea of the mandatory training as well An 80% completion rate is high, but I would hope the new homeowners understand it's on them to make this million dollar investment work. If you haven't been a homeowner before, you need to understand you own this and won't be able to whine at the landlord when something doesn't happen. I think the homeowners can work together to encourage everyone to complete the classes and hope the material is prepared in a way that's easy to digest. Good luck to them.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/06/2022 9:54 AM

I know New York has condos as well as co-ops. I wonder what made U.H.A.B go with the co-op structure.
UHAB's web site: https://www.uhab.org/

Regarding co-ops' structure requiring that owners be financial and legal partners to a great extent than condominium associations, I think you are correct. For example, I believe co-ops often have a prescribed list of chores, and each owner has to pitch in. Pursuant to the governing documents. At least, I have reports from two co-op owners in places far from New York City that this is the co-op scheme. What is behind this? I'd say co-ops are somewhat more social-democratic in nature than condominiums. Perhaps the social-democratic movement has its deepest roots in the New York City area, dating back to the 1930s. I adore New York City and mean this as a mere observation. My sense from the UHAB site is its staff and donors may feel very much a part of this movement, in their own small way. Its staff is probably just too busy helping tenants go through all the legal hoops of buying their buildings, and organizing (Organizing?) said tenants, to think much about politics.

Still, I think there is much overlap between the legal structure of Co-Ops and condominiums.

That 12-hours of training that UHAB is requiring sounds right out of the social-democrat playbook, no? (Again, I do not mean this pejoratively. I would like every prospective home buyer to have to pass a course in personal finance.) It sure seems like a good idea. Right-leaning Florida has a similar requirement but for new directors only.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When I was in high school, taking a personal finance class was mandatory in order to graduate. That was 100 years ago (it seems!) and that requirement has been dropped. Time for it to come back around because kids don't always get this information from their parents, who may be as addled about personal finance as their kids. Hell, the parents could take the class with the kids and learn something.

I took a first time homebuyer's class run by a community organization before buying my townhouse - I've learned a helluva lot since then, but it was definitely one of the best classes I took from any setting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 05/06/2022 9:56 AM
New York has taken making affordable housing available seriously, though need still outweighs the availability, through their lottery system required for new developments. And many years previously by rent control. This was a very interesting read and the resident's determination of searching for alternatives is very admirable.

Charlotte, NC and it's surrounding communities are struggling very badly with rental prices increasing beyond affordability. Recently a property doubled their rents.

There has to be some balance somewhere. When resident's cut back to pay for housing, the local economy suffers when disposable income shrinks. I guess only time will tell.
I just wonder how often housing that a local government regulates to be "affordable" stays "affordable." I am aware rent control was a big thing in New York City for some time but am not sure where things stand now. It's a very different city from my time in the 1980s in and around it. More fraught, I'd say.

I just extended my lease (in a very humble neighborhood of large townhomes) and faced no rent increase. I do not know if this will last. But where I am is not tony (for a good part, AFAIC) North Carolina.

You are welcome.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 05/06/2022 10:25 AM
This is what's possible when people come together and WORK for the good of everyone.
I think these tenants are mostly working to enhance their own bank accounts by way of not paying for increasing rents. Which is perfectly understandable. On the other hand, co-ops last a long time in New York City and are still popular. Without question and per the governing documents as I understand them, people have to work together more if they want to keep their co-op home. One has to want it?

I agree about the personal finance classes. I overheard a VITA client (income tax filing for the poor, disabled, and some super annoying, ostensibly "educated," middle and upper class folks) say that completing a Form 1040 and basic acquaintance with a W-2 should be a mandatory high school class. The volunteers cheered.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Sheila about the value of personal finance classes in schools. I don't remember having a specific class about it, but my grade school math classes often dealt with money calculations, various types of interest, and the like.

In my more cynical moments, I suspect the decision to remove the classes from the curriculum was deliberate. After all, if people understand how money works, then politicians and investment "professionals" can't hand them a line of hooey.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/06/2022 10:34 AM
Posted By PatJ1 on 05/06/2022 9:56 AM
New York has taken making affordable housing available seriously, though need still outweighs the availability, through their lottery system required for new developments. And many years previously by rent control. This was a very interesting read and the resident's determination of searching for alternatives is very admirable.

Charlotte, NC and it's surrounding communities are struggling very badly with rental prices increasing beyond affordability. Recently a property doubled their rents.

There has to be some balance somewhere. When resident's cut back to pay for housing, the local economy suffers when disposable income shrinks. I guess only time will tell.
I just wonder how often housing that a local government regulates to be "affordable" stays "affordable." I am aware rent control was a big thing in New York City for some time but am not sure where things stand now. It's a very different city from my time in the 1980s in and around it. More fraught, I'd say.

I just extended my lease (in a very humble neighborhood of large townhomes) and faced no rent increase. I do not know if this will last. But where I am is not tony (for a good part, AFAIC) North Carolina.

You are welcome.

I check the New York affordable lottery when it pops up on my FB. I do sometimes wonder where they get their qualifications from. Even $1,000 a month for a studio in any of the New York boroughs on gross income of say $38,000 seems almost impossible depending on the employee paid costs of health insurance. Public transportation availability allows resident's to live without a car, but how many have fully paid health benefits through their employers?

Just looking at it from a simple budget perspective. For many it's still not affordable, but for many it is.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
My sister is on the board of her co-op in NYC. NY does not have open meeting requirements, so they only have to do one open meeting per year and that's the annual members meeting. In many ways it's the same as a condo, except that you have to be interviewed when purchasing and you can be rejected and there are other differences including pretty tight rental rules and you can't foreclose when someone doesn't pay their monthly maintenance fees.

In her building, which was originally built in the 1960's as housing for moderate income workers like teachers and postal workers, the maintenance fees are pretty reasonable but they don't have "chores" or anything like that. They do have a lot of committees.

The downside is that problem tenants, because they are owners of the whole building (for example if there are 200 units they own 1/200th of the entire building), are extremely difficult to get rid of. And her building had to have the entire front facade replaced do to aging materials so like a condo association they had to pay significant special assessments. The feeling I get is that a co-op can be less expensive than a condo but also there are some downsides.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/06/2022 9:54 AM
I wonder how the tenants will feel when they discover that they are now their own "landlords"? People can be very enthusiastic about stickin' it to The Man until they discover that they ARE The Man...


I didn't have time to wade through the entire article, once I saw that they got into the level of detail about the architecture of the bar and what food they ordered.

To Cathy's point, this building was built in 1910, once the owners find out what it costs to maintain a structure that old in NYC they might wish they were still renting.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 05/06/2022 11:00 AM
My sister is on the board of her co-op in NYC. NY does not have open meeting requirements, so they only have to do one open meeting per year and that's the annual members meeting. In many ways it's the same as a condo, except that you have to be interviewed when purchasing and you can be rejected and there are other differences including pretty tight rental rules and you can't foreclose when someone doesn't pay their monthly maintenance fees.

In her building, which was originally built in the 1960's as housing for moderate income workers like teachers and postal workers, the maintenance fees are pretty reasonable but they don't have "chores" or anything like that. They do have a lot of committees.
I stand corrected. From checking some NYC condo vs. co-op sites, the "chores" thing is something that I think may occur far more often with non-New York City co-ops.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/06/2022 10:51 AM
I agree with Sheila about the value of personal finance classes in schools. I don't remember having a specific class about it, but my grade school math classes often dealt with money calculations, various types of interest, and the like.

In my more cynical moments, I suspect the decision to remove the classes from the curriculum was deliberate. After all, if people understand how money works, then politicians and investment "professionals" can't hand them a line of hooey.



Same thing with civics classes. In my day, you also needed that to graduate. These days, people barely know the three branches of government and the differences between them, let alone who their representatives are and what they do. And the judges - you get a list of names and end up doing things like "I think I'll vote for John Brown because my uncle's name is John. Or my favorite teacher in algebra 2 was Mrs. Brown." Explains a lot about what's happening in this country nowadays - we're slipping straight into hell tripping on a banana peel.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/06/2022 11:09 AM
To Cathy's point, this building was built in 1910
Did you see the year the building was built somewhere?

For rent, these tenants were paying a $1000 a month for a studio apartment. Which in my experience, is a bargain in the NYC area, though maybe not so much the Bronx. For a co-op, the owners own shares in the building. If all stays on track, and assuming 21 tenants paying off a 30-year mortgage at about 5.2% on a $2.6 million loan, they will now pay around $680 per month per tenant for the mortgage plus the costs of maintaining the building plus insurance et cetera. Which I agree could easily put them over the $1000 per month they have been paying in rent. But as you know, the deal is each tenant is now building some equity.

Article with photos:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/realestate/tenants-eviction-port-morris-bronx.html
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/06/2022 1:19 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/06/2022 11:09 AM
To Cathy's point, this building was built in 1910
Did you see the year the building was built somewhere?

Not in the article, but here:
https://www.propertyshark.com/mason/Property/45282/700-E-134-St-Bronx-NY-10454/


Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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