HOA replacing commercial grade hot water boilers -- is a "modular" system more reliable / cheaper in long run?

Started by ChrisS24 • 11 replies • 240 views

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ChrisS24 (California)
Posts: 14

Posted:

Hi all --

I help our small condo complex's HOA team maintain items in our gradually aging building, and one of them is our natural gas hot water system. Right now we have two 250k BTU boilers that feed a 250 gallon storage tank, which are getting to the end of their 20 year life.

One of the commercial plumbers has suggested we replace the system with a "4-pack" modular setup like this: https://www.rinnai.us/commercial/tankless-rack-systems

The reasoning being that the smaller units are cheaper to maintain and can back each other up better. And they might not need a crane to get the units up to the roof, which is an advantage.

And we're wondering, is this true? Are these systems reliable and worth switching to, rather than just replacing "as-is" the 2 large boilers that we have right now? (maybe with a higher efficiency unit) Or should we go with what's tried and tested?

If anyone has experience with these, I'd appreciate your opinion.

Thanks!

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

From a lifetime cost standpoint, I am not convinced tankless systems are so superior to conventional systems.

For a roughly 20 unit COA like yours, I'd recommend that the board get bids from four plumbers, for both tankless vs. non-tankless systems.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/27/2022 4:14 PM
From a lifetime cost standpoint, I am not convinced tankless systems are so superior to conventional systems.

For a roughly 20 unit COA like yours, I'd recommend that the board get bids from four plumbers, for both tankless vs. non-tankless systems.

I agree. Multi bids on a project this size/cost. Also, as it would be a major change in system configuration 5 to 7 initial bids is not out of the question with the initial cut made on type of system as in new style or just replace old style.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Why would the board vote to replace a commercial grade hot water supply with a standard one and what plumber in their right mind would jeopardize their business
installing a sub par hot water tank in a building that requires commercial. I would think this would be a code violation considering many jusrisicrtnns
require a permit be pulled and perhaps the completed work pass inspection.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

O a side note, tankless hot water systems like Rinnai are very reliable for single family homes. Yes typically a standard SFH with a square footage of less than 2200 SQ would need just one Rinnai system
.
Rinnai has a detailed website for demand and units required. I'm no plumber, but I would hazard to guess you would need one for every unit to remain code compliant.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 04/27/2022 4:58 PM
O a side note, tankless hot water systems like Rinnai are very reliable for single family homes.

I do not like the maintenance requirements. Without said maintenance, I am not sure they are going to last.

I have lived in homes with tankless systems. From a day-to-day standpoint, I think tankless hot water systems are just peachy. From a cost standpoint, I have my doubts I will ever install one.

ChrisS24 (California)
Posts: 14

Posted:

Thanks for the comments -- just to clarify, the boilers we have are cube-shaped units, each the size of an air conditioning condenser, and the 2 of them feed into a large 250 gallon water storage tank that feeds our entire building's residents with circulating (continuous) hot water. The tank is the size of a large refrigerator on its side.

So, if I understand it right, the proposed modular boilers are not exactly "tankless" -- these would still produce hot water that would be stored in the large tank. (In case this makes a difference to what some above were suggesting)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

How many units does your assn. have? How many stories? Where is the storage tank?

ChrisS24 (California)
Posts: 14

Posted:

We've got a 3 story + basement building of 25 units (quite large, 2+3 BR units), and our boilers and hot water tank are on the roof.
Thanks!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Keep in mind that even if you don't need a crane to put the modular system in place, you still need a crane to remove the old system.
So, no cost savings for the crane.

ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820

Posted:

a commercial system that only lasts 20 years? sounds like salesmen are trying to make you upgrade something before it's time IMHO. what exactly is wrong with the system? I've seen systems going 30 years no problem. You got minerals/ scale build up? softwater systems can easily go 40 years with proper maintenance.

replace if needed, not because it's 20 years old.

ChrisS24 (California)
Posts: 14

Posted:

Thanks -- well a couple things aside from the age have made us think to replace.

One of the 2 boilers is tripping it's overheat sensor often (weekly) so some relay/pump is starting to have issues. Also the efficiency gains of a higher efficiency unit could pay back within a few years given natural gas prices now. Also our large holding tank may be due for a replacement as well. So all of these factors cause us to think it may be time to replace if we're going to do it anyway within a few years.

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