JillJ4
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
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BOARD MINUTES
Started by JillJ4 • 30 replies • 494 views
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AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Is this a condominium?
Do you want "best practices"; what Minnesota law says; or both?
Do you want "best practices"; what Minnesota law says; or both?
JillJ4
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
This is a townhome with 24 homes.
I would like both ;-)
I would like both ;-)
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 7:27 AM
This is a townhome with 24 homes.
I would like both ;-)
This is a townhome with 24 homes.
I would like both ;-)
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Also what is the date the Declaration was recorded?
JillJ4
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
Does this help??
Declaration states "pursuant to the provisions Statutes Chapter 515B??
Declaration states "pursuant to the provisions Statutes Chapter 515B??
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
-- Minnesota statutes have no requirement for sending out Minutes to owners.
-- Minnesota statutes do have a requirement to (1) maintain records of board meetings, including minutes; and (2) permit owners to inspect the Minutes of such meetings. See and check the applicability of:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/515B.3-118
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/317A.461
-- Best practices IMO are to email a draft of the minutes to all owners (or possibly place a draft on the web site), with a watermark indicating the minutes are a draft, the week before the next board meeting. Post the final, approved minutes on the HOA/COA web site.
-- Minnesota statutes do have a requirement to (1) maintain records of board meetings, including minutes; and (2) permit owners to inspect the Minutes of such meetings. See and check the applicability of:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/515B.3-118
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/317A.461
-- Best practices IMO are to email a draft of the minutes to all owners (or possibly place a draft on the web site), with a watermark indicating the minutes are a draft, the week before the next board meeting. Post the final, approved minutes on the HOA/COA web site.
JillJ4
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
Even if this was just a BOARD meeting that I am talking about??
Thanks for the help BTW!
Thanks for the help BTW!
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 7:46 AM
Even if this was just a BOARD meeting that I am talking about??
Even if this was just a BOARD meeting that I am talking about??
JillJ4
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
Got it! Thanks for explaining!
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 8:02 AM
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 8:02 AM
Got it! Thanks for explaining!
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
Got it! Thanks for explaining!
I was simply taking about board meeting minutes/vs our annual HOA member meeting minutes. We are planning on sharing the annual HOA yearly member minutes with all owners, but we weren't sure if we needed to share the board minutes with all owners.
Jill
It would show your BOD is open about things if you sent all minutes to each owner. After all, there are only 24 of you.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
No requirement to mail board mtg. minutes to owners in CA. There are board meetings every month and the approved minutes are then placed on the website. For HOAs that meet less often, clearly marked draft minutes must be available to Owners upon their simple email written request.
Minutes must be kept forever and Owners who don't know how to access our website can ask our PM to email the minutes to them.
Minutes must be kept forever and Owners who don't know how to access our website can ask our PM to email the minutes to them.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
No requirement to mail board mtg. minutes to owners in CA. There are board meetings every month and the approved minutes are then placed on the website. For HOAs that meet less often, clearly marked draft minutes must be available to Owners upon their simple email written request.
Minutes must be kept forever and Owners who don't know how to access our website can ask our PM to email the minutes to them.
Minutes must be kept forever and Owners who don't know how to access our website can ask our PM to email the minutes to them.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
A homeowner should be able to request and receive board minutes. Just keep in mind that the minutes are not officially approved by the board until the next board meeting.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Maybe in Ohio, Dean, but in CA, the assn. is not required to provide requested draft minutes until 30 days after the relevant board meeting.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Once the minutes are approved, we post them to our website. We do not send them to anyone unless they request it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We do the same as Ben.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 6:47 AM
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Catching up on this post, "best practice" for disseminating meeting minutes might be interpreted as following UCIOA (versions of which have been adopted across several states). UCIOA specifically mentions that draft meeting minutes are not required to be disseminated to members before they are approved. Draft minutes would obviously be disseminated to the Board to allow for review before approval at a subsequent meeting.
Draft meeting minutes present an opportunity for disclosure and transparency that may exceed what's reasonable because material changes to a draft could leave members scratching their heads.
Regards,
Steve
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 2:08 PM
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 6:47 AM
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Catching up on this post, "best practice" for disseminating meeting minutes might be interpreted as following UCIOA (versions of which have been adopted across several states). UCIOA specifically mentions that draft meeting minutes are not required to be disseminated to members before they are approved.
Nine states use the UCIOA.
Five states (including Minnesota), where the OP appears to be) use the 1982 UCIOA. The 1982 UCIOA does not say what you claim above.
Four states use the 2008 UCIOA. The 2008 version says what you say above.
The states with the most HOAs are said to be California and Florida. California requires draft minutes to be made available to members upon request. Florida statutes are silent on the point.
I do not think UCIOA can be said to say anything about what is best practices on this subject.
See:
https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/Priorities/UniformActs/Pages/default.aspx
https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/hoa-statistics
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 4:41 PM
Catching up on this post, "best practice" for disseminating meeting minutes might be interpreted as following UCIOA (versions of which have been adopted across several states). UCIOA specifically mentions that draft meeting minutes are not required to be disseminated to members before they are approved.
According to CAI: Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 2:08 PM
Posted By JillJ4 on 04/26/2022 6:47 AM
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Do minutes from BOARD meetings usually get sent out to all members of the HOA or just to fellow BOARD members?
Catching up on this post, "best practice" for disseminating meeting minutes might be interpreted as following UCIOA (versions of which have been adopted across several states). UCIOA specifically mentions that draft meeting minutes are not required to be disseminated to members before they are approved.
Nine states use the UCIOA.
Five states (including Minnesota), where the OP appears to be) use the 1982 UCIOA. The 1982 UCIOA does not say what you claim above.
Four states use the 2008 UCIOA. The 2008 version says what you say above.
The states with the most HOAs are said to be California and Florida. California requires draft minutes to be made available to members upon request. Florida statutes are silent on the point.
I do not think UCIOA can be said to say anything about what is best practices on this subject.
See:
https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/Priorities/UniformActs/Pages/default.aspx
https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/hoa-statistics
Augustin,
I politely disagree.
RCW 64.90.445(2)(g) - Meetings (https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.445):
(g) If any materials are distributed to the board before the meeting, the board must make copies of those materials reasonably available to the unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
That text embodies the UCIOA standard (https://www.uniformlaws.org/viewdocument/act-2014):
(6) If any materials are distributed to the executive board before the meeting, the executive board at the same time shall make copies of those materials reasonably available to unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
Regards,
Steve
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
And in 13 years of property management, I have never been asked for minutes by an owner.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posts: 339
Posted:
Oh and Augustin, CAI's maps and information on those "advocacy" pages is not all up to date, so I'd be careful about citing CAI in this case. For example, Washington State passed an EV Charging bill that becomes effective one month from now. CAI's EV page says nothing of it. It's a shame that an organization pulling in millions of dollars can't keep their web properties current, but that's a different topic...
Regards,
Steve
Regards,
Steve
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 4:50 PM
Oh and Augustin, CAI's maps and information on those "advocacy" pages is not all up to date, so I'd be careful about citing CAI in this case. For example, Washington State passed an EV Charging bill that becomes effective one month from now. CAI's EV page says nothing of it. It's a shame that an organization pulling in millions of dollars can't keep their web properties current, but that's a different topic...
Regards,
Steve
Oh and Augustin, CAI's maps and information on those "advocacy" pages is not all up to date, so I'd be careful about citing CAI in this case. For example, Washington State passed an EV Charging bill that becomes effective one month from now. CAI's EV page says nothing of it. It's a shame that an organization pulling in millions of dollars can't keep their web properties current, but that's a different topic...
Regards,
Steve
tou·ché
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 4:46 PM
I politely disagree.
I politely disagree.
Quote:
RCW 64.90.445(2)(g) - Meetings (https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.445):
(g) If any materials are distributed to the board before the meeting, the board must make copies of those materials reasonably available to the unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
That text embodies the UCIOA standard (https://www.uniformlaws.org/viewdocument/act-2014):
(6) If any materials are distributed to the executive board before the meeting, the executive board at the same time shall make copies of those materials reasonably available to unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
Steve, the above is Washington's statute section on this subject. Washington is one of the exactly four states (according to CAI) that has adopted the 2008 UCIOA. It appears forty-six other states have not adopted the 2008 UCIOA with its language about not making draft Minutes available.
UCIOA is no authority on anything as far as I am concerned. Readers here should go straight to their state statutes. When there is room for discretion, asking here is a good idea.
I am happy to agree to disagree that UCIOA is the authority on this subject. I do not think it has much use in general at this forum.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 4:50 PM
Oh and Augustin, CAI's maps and information on those "advocacy" pages is not all up to date
Oh and Augustin, CAI's maps and information on those "advocacy" pages is not all up to date
Per the CAI site and so as recently as 2018, a super majority of states do not use UCIOA. A super super majority (sic) of states do not use the 2008 UCIOA (which says what you say about the distribution of unapproved minutes).
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 4:56 PM
With what? Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 4:46 PM
I politely disagree.
I politely disagree.
Quote:
RCW 64.90.445(2)(g) - Meetings (https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.445):
(g) If any materials are distributed to the board before the meeting, the board must make copies of those materials reasonably available to the unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
That text embodies the UCIOA standard (https://www.uniformlaws.org/viewdocument/act-2014):
(6) If any materials are distributed to the executive board before the meeting, the executive board at the same time shall make copies of those materials reasonably available to unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
Steve, the above is Washington's statute section on this subject. Washington is one of the exactly four states (according to CAI) that has adopted the 2008 UCIOA. It appears forty-six other states have not adopted the 2008 UCIOA with its language about not making draft Minutes available.
UCIOA is no authority on anything as far as I am concerned. Readers here should go straight to their state statutes. When there is room for discretion, asking here is a good idea.
I am happy to agree to disagree that UCIOA is the authority on this subject. I do not think it has much use in general at this forum.
Augustin,
I posted a link to the 2014 UCIOA, but yes, there are earlier versions. Six states have adopted one or more versions of UCIOA (https://www.uniformlaws.org/committees/community-home?CommunityKey=66a8afd1-326a-4525-ad0f-accf961ed0b6). 15 states have adopted the Uniform Condominium Act (https://www.uniformlaws.org/committees/community-home?communitykey=3304f481-3a47-4f52-9b05-73db978e33bc).
The lack of movement by multiple state legislatures to adopt UCIOA is unfortunate, but not suprising. Florida legislators could not muster the requirements to pass meaningful changes to their legislation in the wake the Surfside disaster.
The UCA (https://www.uniformlaws.org/HigherLogic/System/DownloadDocumentFile.ashx?DocumentFileKey=23b288ba-2e74-5fd9-a46e-3b27126f7c4f&forceDialog=0), finalized in 1960, includes the *SAME* language with regard to unapproved minutes. So there are 20 states with some form of UCIOA and/or UCA in place. 20 out of 50 ain't bad, just sayin'. That language *is* authoritative and a great example of how to handle unapproved minutes, regardless of whether an individual state has adopted the language into its CIC statutes.
(6) If any materials are distributed to the executive board before the meeting, the executive board at the same time shall make copies of those materials reasonably available to unit owners, except that the board need not make available copies of unapproved minutes or materials that are to be considered in executive session.
Regards,
Steve
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 5:09 PM
That language *is* authoritative and a great example of how to handle unapproved minutes, regardless of whether an individual state has adopted the language into its CIC statutes.
That language *is* authoritative and a great example of how to handle unapproved minutes, regardless of whether an individual state has adopted the language into its CIC statutes.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Augustin
Maybe you can speak to your qualifications and/or experience and maybe we can cut to the BS.
Maybe you can speak to your qualifications and/or experience and maybe we can cut to the BS.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/09/2022 5:16 PM
SteveH35, you've already demonstrated willingness to play quite loose with the facts. I am not going to try to confirm your claims. They certainly do not represent any authority on how to handle draft Minutes. I will stand by my position that I think California and Florida's position speak at least as loudly as anything you cite (or really, do not cite) on this subject.Posted By SteveH35 on 05/09/2022 5:09 PM
That language *is* authoritative and a great example of how to handle unapproved minutes, regardless of whether an individual state has adopted the language into its CIC statutes.
That language *is* authoritative and a great example of how to handle unapproved minutes, regardless of whether an individual state has adopted the language into its CIC statutes.
Augustin,
You're calling me out with "Play loose with the facts" yet the two states you quote are polar opposites. California has arguably *the most* rigid set of CIC statutes anywhere in the United States of America. You also cite Florida statutes that are silent" in this regard. Silent statutes aren't authoritative.
Nobody is debating that minutes are a record, but point that seems to be lost here is "what happens when a material misrepresentation appears in a set of draft minutes and is later corrected?" 20 states have statutes incorporating the Uniform language that addresses the right for a Board to withhold unapproved minutes. We could have a similar conversation about providing a recording of a meeting (look to Florida statutes for that). Many attorneys in many states will advise Boards to avoid recording their meetings for some of the same reasons to withhold unapproved minutes.
Regards,
Steve
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
SteveH35, you and I have different views of what is "authoritative."
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