What are most important things to update in CCR's?

From earlier threads, this appears to be a Florida HOA (not a condo association).



Commenting on each of the above:

1.
I oppose in its entirety. FS 720 allows HOAs to suspend voting rights and rights to use the common area. Collecting assessments is a burden on boards and costs owners' money. If there are not ways to enforce the covenant for assessments, then assessments will be even harder to collect. A deal's a deal. Either pay up or sell your home and move to a non-HOA.

2.
Remove all quorum requirements. The quorum requirement for director elections is silly. (The California Davis-Stirly site says so, notably.) Also votes on things like amendments still have to yield a supermajority in favor. Quorum is not relevant.

3.
I oppose in its entirety. Owners are not savvy about HOA infrastructure and financial planning. Directors will give much more attention to how to spend money. Owners who do not like how their money is spent can either get on the board; lawyer up; or frankly, shut up.

4.
See 3. above.

5.
Maybe, but I lean against. The supermajority requirements ensure stability. I believe even the courts have observed the value of the covenants being hard to change.

6.
Maybe. Perhaps a requirement of 20% of the owners approving to bring suit for anything that is not related to the collection of the regular or a special assessment.

7.
From the looks of the AARP bill of rights, the AARP wants to tie up board's hands so that older people can pay less. Meanwhile the 20 story waterfront condo building may be collapsing under them. I do not find this "bill of rights" helpful. I find it a little criminal insofar it promotes infrastructure not being maintained by tying the board's hands when it comes to maintenance.

In my opinion, the "wheel" here has already been invented. See Florida statutes and California statutes. See also Ohio's statutes requiring the Board to maintain the reserve account at the level specified by a reserve study performed within the last five years.

yeah cause one vote is gonna really make a difference. It's just a power grab move. Maybe before jumping to assumptions you can just answer the question. dont' care about your opinion. No ones gonna are if they can't use the swing set in our neighborhood either.

No ongoing deadbeat that refuses to pay their HOA fees should be voting. If they can't afford it then they need to move and stop free loading.

What a load of crap.

I agree that withholding privileges only is effective if there are privileges with suspending. In many HOAs, this could th gym , pool or other recreational amenities. In our urban high rise, suspending underground guest parking has been very effective.

exactly, our HOA has nothing desirable to be withheld.

One person's comments:

I've said on this website that being in a HOA is like going into a bar and becoming business partners with everyone there (heard that from another source, although I can't remember now). Anyway, when you are a HOA member, everyone's cooperation is necessary in order for the association to function, and when people don't pull their weight for whatever reason, it can make things difficult for everyone else. People make choices to join HOAs or not and if they're going to do that, it's THEIR responsibility to read the rules and understand their rights and responsibilities before going in.

Which is why I don't like #1 - if you don't pay your assessments in full and on time, why should the paying homeowners indirectly subsidize YOU and why should YOU have a say in who manages the association or be part of the board that makes said decisions? As for the common area, we all have to share and pay to maintain it, so you DON'T have a right to do whatever the hell you want with it.

#2 is ok - if people don't want to fret about the tyranny of the majority or minority, they should get off their asses and vote. That means you make the time to attend the annual meeting if you don't want to go to anything else and at least pay some attention to what's going in your community. Ditto for CCR changes - it's bad enough some people pay more attention to preparing a grocery list than looking at the documents that dictate how the community is run or how the common areas (that everyone owns) are supposed to be used.

#3 - my community can raise assessments up to 5% over the current amount without homeowner approval - it should really be 10% because 5% only amounts to about $5 more a year. When you consider inflation, that's really not enough to keep up. I do agree that homeowners should approve special assessments (I think the percentage in my community is 75%, which is fair - everyone needs to know why special assessments are necessary and there should be buy-in from a majority)

#4 - if you mean the board should get homeowner approval for projects costing over $5K, I think that threshold is too low - $10K is more appropriate. It's easy to spend $5K on things like carpeting for the clubhouse or new playground equipment, and if you have to stop and get homeowner approval every time, you probably won't get anything else done. Sometimes those $5 or $6K expenses are for things that can quickly add up if you don't deal with them sooner rather than later.

By the way, this applies to homeowners as well - sometimes the answer really is no, and some people insist on poking the bear because of their ego, not because someone actually did something wrong. When I was treasurer of my board and wrestling with delinquencies, I didn't take any pleasure in suing anyone or pursuing a foreclosure, but I also knew if you didn't let people know right away what the association would and wouldn't tolerate, they would continue to get away with not paying. You don't want a ton of attorney bills, maybe you should pay your assessments! Or try to be a decent neighbor instead of an asshole.

#5 - I like this one - 51% is a good starting point.

#6 - that's easier said than done. You're paying for an attorney's time and expertise, so if you're talking about major legal matters like - updating the documents, it's important that be done by qualified people so they'll stand up in court. This doesn't mean pay whatever the attorney wants - it's quite appropriate to ask for a fee schedule that addresses everything from drafting legal forms to skip tracing (if they do collections for the association) and back to answering emails or returning phone calls. All of that is part of the attorney's time, and so before you haul off and sue someone because "you are the board and therefore you are", it's appropriate to stop, take a deep breath and consider all the potential pros and cons, including the costs. That doesn't mean bow down to whatever the homeowner demands all the time, but if you're heading to court, you should have a better than 70% chance of winning (and even that isn't guaranteed, depending on opposing counsel and however the judge is feeling at the time). Lawsuits are nasty, expensive and time consuming, so if you're going that route, you may as well go in knowing you'll win.

This is also why I agree that alternative dispute resolution should be tried before throwing hands in court. To make things fair, have both sides put up half of the expenses - whoever wins has to reimburse the other side. A good mediator or arbitrator will work to bring both sides to the middle so everyone goes away with something.

I've seen the AARP homeowner rights and there's a lot I agree with. Some of that is already written into the documents (people would know that if they would sit down and read them), and if something isn't clear, they can be adapted to an individual community. Some of it is also common sense , which sadly, you can't legislate. All you can do (and must do) is keep yourself and your neighbors in check, including the board (because that's what they are). Remember, you're also business partners (even if the association is a non-profit) - all of you have a responsibility to ensure the money is used appropriately and all the partners comply with community rules to ensure all of you can enjoy a clean, safe, attractive community with rising property values (whatever those are...)

so if you dont' pay state sales tax you can't drive your car on any roads right? dont' go to any parks and don't you dare think about getting a covid relief check! and then the government can take away your right to vote right?

maybe I should of made it clearer, I am looking for other ideas. I literally spent 1 minute making my list. Surely someone has put more thought into a list of desirable changes??? Dont' really care about anyones opinion of my list of stuff that just popped into my head. Looking for comments from people that have actually changed thier rules and what they changed.

That's not what I mean and you know it. If YOU know a way where people can get everything they want without paying for it, do enlighten us. It may work in your community but it sure doesn't in mine.

In fact, how much experience do you have on a HOA board? I find many people come up with all sorts of wild ideas without having any idea how they really work. I know I don't know everything, but I did serve on my board for 10 years, five as treasurer, so I know how budgets work and the true cost of things when you pay for them. What you got?

You have another conversation on this website the examples of CCR revisions and during that conversation, you said your community has never revised its documents. Before revising anything, don't you think it might make sense to read what you have so you can think about Why some things are even there and then determine if they're necessary or should be updated? That's common sense, but as I said some people don't have a lot of it.

I believe that one of the key qualities of a Board member is to remain calm and unemotional when they are facing criticism. You do not appear to have this. Your tendency to go for personal insults when questioned tells me that you have some growing up to do.

Also, if you believe that long term deadbeats should not face any consequences then you are ignoring your fiduciary responsibilities to protect your members investment and you simply don't belong on the Board.

wrong, if a HOA board cant' use massive weapons like unlimited lawyer budgets and ability to foreclose on people for the most minor of reasons then the smaller tools wont' hurt as much.

HOAs 101:

HOAs are not democracies. They are corporations. Members are financial and legal partners and have obligations, the main one being to pay assessments. If owners are free to ignore their responsibilities without consequence, then there will be no money and the HOA will be bankrupt - and there will be nothing to vote about.

This is a pretty big thing for a board member to be unclear about.

ThadC2 can you give us a better picture of what you believe is going on in your HOA that needs to be corrected by drastically changing the documents? That would help us understand why you are saying some of the things you are and how we might be able to help. For example, if you have too many investor owners, you might want to add some rental restrictions. If the community is aging, you might want to require that the reserve fund is funded to at least a certain percentage. There are many more things we could suggest but it's very specific to a community.

Is it an HOA or COA? How much are the monthly dues? You say there is not desirable common area - but are there any amenities at all on common property? Why is foreclosure such a hot button? Are there many people unable to pay the HOA fees? Are there special assessments?

I think we all agree that lowering the number of homeowners for a quorum is a good idea. But some of your other ideas, like the vote for projects over $5000, are pretty unrealistic in todays market. We have to pay almost $2000 just for a sidewalk repair and $150 a tree to have coconuts removed.

Or he wants to take power from the HOA? Like maybe he does not like any of the architectural covenants or perhaps any of the lots' use restrictions?

He is free to seek an amendment.

ThadC2, maybe you might like to elaborate on what position you hold at the HOA? Are you on the Board? Has the Board expressed interest in amending or re-stating the covenants? Is MRTA playing a role here?

I actually spent a little time offering some changes we ae making to our CC&Rs (not "rules"), and even tho' ignored by Thad, some might be of interest to other posters.

I especially like our addition: increases to contributions to reserves must be the same or higher than the previous year's rate of inflation until the percent funded is 100% .

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Private governments that take away your rights without due process. Just to be clear, you don't have anything to contribute to answer my question, you just want to argue about something you know I wont' change my position on, right? if so I'll just ignore your future replies.

appreciate the ideas

board members also have no fiuciary duty to act in the best interest of the association many times. Hence HOa's have little to no reserves or are bankrupt.

I'm laughing as i read your comments cause you basically reinforce why homeowners with no business experiece shouldn't be running an hoa. oh but wait , i know, you are the exception. somehow you are better and deserve to run the hoa, but other home ownders dont'.

you act as if this hoa corporation was indispensible??? show me some google articles of what happens when an hoa goes out of business and the ramificaitons then.

that is a irrelavant as a homeowner in a hoa or a board member in a hoa I am free to go around getting signatures to change the current governing documents.

My advice would be for the OP to consult a lawyer, period. He does not understand how HOAs work, is wrong about a number of fundamental concepts, and won't accept reality unless he pays good money for it. Let the lawyer provide some straight talk.

I agree. Those HOAs/COAs in states that do not have statutes requiring, for example, a hearing before imposing a fine, typically end up paying a lot of money to an attorney to learn that common law (court-made law) requires a hearing and other due process.

let me guess a CAI approved lawyer that makes his money foreclosing on people who have dandelions, clover and other noxious weeds in their grass? Maybe that lawyer that made hundreds of thousands of dollars over an obama sign and forced the entire HOA to go bankrupt, have special assments to pay his fees and destroyed the community ? yeah sounds like a great idea sweetie.

Thanks for keeping on topic!
Absolutely nothing is going on in the HOA that needs drastically corrected. Which is the BEST TIME TO make changes. Most of the time people who want to make changes are in the middle of a HOA battle with a BOD that treats them like crap. I don't consider trying to give homeowners basic rights very drastic.

IT's HOA, monthly dues are $15/month for a playground area that no one uses. Foreclosure has always been a hot button topic because it denies people their basic needs of shelter. Never been a special assesment because there is no need for one. But I've read about HOA that have gone bankrupt over a political sign in the front yard and lawyer fees to fight it. I'm sure everyone says that wont' happen in our neighborhood but when you look at the CCR's they deffinetely would allow the same thing to happen.

$5000 is just a number I picked out of my ass, can be any reasonable number. Bag of cement is $8. elbow grease is what makes the repair cost a lot. You'd need several bags, but you get my point.

because it makes the board feel powerful is the only real reason. Never read a single article about one vote making a difference in an HOA election.