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quick clarification mailing address

Started by LaskaS • 103 replies • 1724 views

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LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
Hi, I have a quick question.

according to texas Sec. 82.114. ASSOCIATION RECORDS.
(a) The association shall keep:
4)the name and mailing address of each unit owner.

Im previously requested the name and mailing address of each unit owner. This request was in addition to a records request for election proxies etc.

I was not sent the name and mailing address of each owner. I was sent a list of each unit and the owner name.

Non-resident owners' mailing address would not be the physical address of the condominium would it?

The information i have searched so far tells me that the mailing address is the registered address of each owner. i.e. the address on file with the managing agent where each owner receives official mail.

So I politely resent a request for the name and mailing address of each owner. The response was, "you have already been provided this with the original records you requested" and she attached the same list which is just a list of owner names with the corresponding unit(s) they own.

It's possible that the person responding to my request actually thinks what i was provided is the correct list. Before I respond and specify that i was not sent the name and mailing address in accordance with 82.114. Can someone confirm that the statue calls for name and mailing address and mailing address would be the actual address their official correspondence is sent. so for no resident owners, this would either be a po box or their actual address..???

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sincerely wondering, Sasha if you have no supporters in your entire HOA who can read this section for you??? You've claimed that you do. If not, your crusade will surely fail.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 04/22/2022 6:23 PM
Hi, I have a quick question.

according to texas Sec. 82.114. ASSOCIATION RECORDS.
(a) The association shall keep:
4)the name and mailing address of each unit owner.

Im previously requested the name and mailing address of each unit owner. This request was in addition to a records request for election proxies etc.

I was not sent the name and mailing address of each owner. I was sent a list of each unit and the owner name.

Non-resident owners' mailing address would not be the physical address of the condominium would it?

The information i have searched so far tells me that the mailing address is the registered address of each owner. i.e. the address on file with the managing agent where each owner receives official mail.

So I politely resent a request for the name and mailing address of each owner. The response was, "you have already been provided this with the original records you requested" and she attached the same list which is just a list of owner names with the corresponding unit(s) they own.

It's possible that the person responding to my request actually thinks what i was provided is the correct list. Before I respond and specify that i was not sent the name and mailing address in accordance with 82.114. Can someone confirm that the statue calls for name and mailing address and mailing address would be the actual address their official correspondence is sent. so for no resident owners, this would either be a po box or their actual address..???
None of the statutes describe what the "mailing address" is. The manager is obviously jerking you around. If you know of one owner who is a landlord, look up the owner's address in the property tax records of your county. Be ready to present this as an example. (And no, just because you found one address in the property tax records does not mean you have to look up possibly hundreds others.)

Try this:

Dear Manager and Board,

On ___, 2022, pursuant to TPC 82.1141, BO 22.352, and Bylaw Article IV, section 3.(l) I requested the name and mailing address of for each unit. So far what the Association has sent me appears to be the name and address of each unit titled in an owner's name. A number of owners here rent their units to tenants. In this case, I expect the mailing address that the Association uses is different from the unit's address. Also TPC 82.114 (e) requires unit owners to provide to the Association their "mailing address." It is clear to me that "mailing address" means the address to which the Association sends mail to an owner, as provided to the Association by the owner.

I am asking again: Please provide the name and mailing address of each unit owner.

Sincerely,

name
address
phone number
email addie

If this request is ignored, consider one more letter explaining that you will have no choice but to proceed to Justice of the Peace court, pursuant to 82.1141 (m).
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/22/2022 7:40 PM
I'm sincerely wondering, Sasha if you have no supporters in your entire HOA who can read this section for you??? You've claimed that you do. If not, your crusade will surely fail.
KerryL1, do you approve of a condominium organization not having an annual budget, when the state's statutes require one? Do you realize that LaskaS's effort has resulted in the COA having a budget for 2022, despite a majority of directors initially resisting this?

LaskaS's crusade at this point seeks to get the COA to comply with the law. She/he is free to do this all by him/herself.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
NOTE: The address of the Member IS and will ALWAYS be the address on the HOA property they own whether or not they reside there. The address/title is in that HOA's property name. Hence it is the address of the member. Any other addresses is none of the HOA's business. The ONLY business is with the HOA property.

Now it is a good thing to have any secondary addresses but it is NOT necessarily required. Plus it's not for membership consumption or need.

What the management company provided was the EXACT information requested. Name and address of the HOA member. Which if you put on some walking shoes you can get from anyone's outside view. You can also get it from googling.
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/23/2022 6:20 AM
NOTE: The address of the Member IS and will ALWAYS be the address on the HOA property they own whether or not they reside there. The address/title is in that HOA's property name. Hence it is the address of the member. [additional falsehoods snipped]
The above is patently false.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/23/2022 6:20 AM

Any other addresses is none of the HOA's business. The ONLY business is with the HOA property.


What??

If the owner is renting, the Association needs the mailing address of the owners resident (or, at least of the property manager) to properly send notifications and bills.

It is not the Associations responsibility to track this information down. It is the owners responsibility to provide it.
The Association can only provide the addresses that have been provided.

If the owner has provided their mailing address, then that info is part of the Association records and membership list and needs to be provided to any owner who asks to review the info.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Melissa never said anything she says is correct, just free.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
augustine.

you are so right about what mellissa said.. where does she come up with this stuff.. geez... i've been coming to hoa talk for about 3 years. in all that time I think i've seen a single post of hers that actually made sense.. and this was out of hundreds.. lol.. maybe she is paid by hoa talk for comic relief.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
Tim, augustine,

thanks for the confirmation. That is exactly what I thought.

out of 254 units. only 101 are owner occupied.

the managing agent is jerking me around for sure. They have to send the monthly statement to the owner mailing address. The owner is responsible for the maintenance fees not the owners tenant.
what they provided me was a unit number list with owner name. I will proceed with a letter . thank you once again - except for mellisa, for all of the people willing to provide your thoughts and guidance.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
augustine, funny you already anticipate what I too believe is something the managing agent would try to pull. telling me to look up the information myself in the tax records. I'm glad you confirmed that is not acceptable.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
for the record, my efforts have resulted in all of the following

1. the board now keeps minutes. (although they still aren't really available or kept in an organized way for owner review)
2. The board now does not make decisions outside of meetings without unanimous written consent. after harvey, the board didn't even keep minutes and didn't inform owners of board meetings and thought it was fine to make decisions via email with just a majority of the board responding.
3. The board consulted with the our attorney and now follows the declaration regarding owner responsibility vs hoa responsiblity. The board was literally using what they thought was fair as a gauge on whether to reimburse owners for certain issues.
4. The board did adopt a document retention policy in accordance with the texas law adopted last year. it was supposed to be adopted by sept 2021. Until i sent notice for a records request , the managing agent didn't even mention this to the board.
5. The board doesn't just follow whatever the property manager suggests.
6. The board is now not going to wholesale replace all of the our railings at a cost of 200,000 becasue the managing agent insisted we had to or we would lose insurance coverage. The board is working with an insureance broker who is providing insureance quotes for our needs rather than our association being umbrella'd under the managing agents 50+ properties under management.
The cost is within 5% and the coverage is better.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
continued...

The board now notifies owners and provides a zoom link to the monthly meetings . prior to covid , the monthly meetings were every third wednesday at the clubhouse. signs were always put out , owner were welcome. Once covid occurred, the board met via zoom only and didn't bother notifying anyone that meetings were occuring still.

Some board members have agreed that there needs to be a work order system and record keeping standard for the property maintenance. Unfortunately the centralized system that was paid for and approved my the board was not utilized. There still is no transparency. However, I think the property manager is having to provide some more information about day to day operations to the board. previously, he was just providing information on a need to know basis. And he didn't think the board needed to know anything other than what he wanted them to know.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 04/23/2022 9:00 AM

out of 254 units. only 101 are owner occupied.

the managing agent is jerking me around for sure. They have to send the monthly statement to the owner mailing address. The owner is responsible for the maintenance fees not the owners tenant.
You might add the following to the letter/email:

I understand that over half the units are not owner-occupied. For these units, the Association is surely sending the Association's monthly billing statement to the owner-provided mailing address. Respectfully, I find it difficult to believe that a non-resident owner would provide the owner's unit's address for her or his mailing address.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Laska

We have tenant occupied units in all but one of the condominium properties we manage. Some owners have given an alternate mailing address, others have not.

If we do not have an alternate mailing address for a tenant occupied property, our only option is to mail the notice, invoice, or whatever, to the physical mailing address for the unit, regardless of where the owner resides. It is not our business how the owner and tenant manage the mail.

In your case, with 200+ units on the property, I am going to guess the mailing address for some tenant occupied properties is the actual unit mailing address as that is how the owner wishes to conduct business.

Tread lightly with this as you cannot automatically assume a tenant occupied unit has an alternate mailing address for the owner. You don't want to be in the position of making false accusations regarding the accuracy of the information you have been provided.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Some of our homes are occupied by owner's adult children and in at least one case, by the owner's parents so the owner may be using that address for mail though they do not live there. In SC we can look up online (by address) where the Property Tax bill goes to so typically that is the owner no matter where they live.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/23/2022 2:26 PM
Some of our homes are occupied by owner's adult children and in at least one case, by the owner's parents so the owner may be using that address for mail though they do not live there. In SC we can look up online (by address) where the Property Tax bill goes to so typically that is the owner no matter where they live.

ADD ON

I say an owner is entitled to the name and address of each fellow owner. Not necessarily to their phone number and/or Email address.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
johnc46. you are correct, there is not requirement in texas for the phone number or email address. some states do require email addresses if the owner has stipulated to use the email for official association business. Texas does not have this requirement yet.

for those of you considering what if,, what if..

the point is. I was not provided the owner name and mailing address on file with the managing agent. I was provided the unit address and owner name. I was pretty sure this was not what i requested, I came here to confirm that The association must provide the last known mailing address on file with the association for each unit and owner name and unit that they own.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
bill,, thanks for your information.

tuca requires the following..

82.114 A. 6

(e) Not later than the 30th day after the date of acquiring an interest in a unit, the unit owner shall provide the association with:

(1) the unit owner's mailing address, telephone number, and driver's license number, if any;

(2) the name and address of the holder of any lien against the unit, and any loan number;

(3) the name and telephone number of any person occupying the unit other than the unit owner; and

(4) the name, address, and telephone number of any person managing the unit as agent of the unit owner.

(f) A unit owner shall notify the association not later than the 30th day after the date the owner has notice of a change in any information required by Subsection (e), and shall provide the information on request by the association from time to time.

based on this, it is pretty clear that mailing address of an owner is a piece of information that may or may not be the same as the person occupying a unit.

The owner is required to update the association. I guess if an owner doesn't mind their tenant getting official association business. i'm curious, in what percentage of units in properties you manage that are over half tenant occupied has the owner never updated the managing agent, association. etc.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I am assuming you are in a condo association since you quoted Chapter 82 (it only applies to condos). I agree that the mailing address is the place where the owner receives mail, not the unit address. However, under Sec. 82.1141(j), I don't think you are entitled to that information:

"Except as provided by Subsection (k) and to the extent the information is provided in the meeting minutes, the association is not required to release or allow inspection of any books or records that identify the dedicatory instrument violation history of an individual unit owner of an association, a unit owner's personal financial information, including records of payment or nonpayment of amounts due the association, A UNIT OWNER'S CONTACT INFORMATION, A UNIT OWNER'S ADDRESS, or information related to an employee of the association, including personnel files."

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
BenA2 appears to have correctly quoted TPC Section 82.1141 (j) as follows (bolded emphasis is mine):

82.1141 (j)
Except as provided by Subsection (k) and to the extent the information is provided in the meeting minutes, the association is not required to release or allow inspection of any books or records that identify the dedicatory instrument violation history of an individual unit owner of an association, a unit owner's personal financial information, including records of payment or nonpayment of amounts due the association, a unit owner's contact information, a unit owner's address, or information related to an employee of the association, including personnel files. Information may be released in an aggregate or summary manner that would not identify an individual unit owner.

I think this is interesting, to say the least. Are Texas legislators seriously denying all Texas COA owners the right to have the mailing addresses of unit owners? My response: No. Texas legislators are denying only those who owns condos in an association with Declarations recorded after January 1, 1994.

Elaboration
Section 82.1141 was added in 2021, becoming effective on September 1, 2021. The bill the Texas legislature passed to enact 82.1141 is known as S.B. 318. An early version of S.B. 318 uses the phrase,

a unit owner's contact information, other than the unit owner's address,

in place of what is shown above. See

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB318/id/2234027/Texas-2021-SB318-Introduced.html
and
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/analysis/html/SB00318I.htm

Subsequent versions of S.B. 318 indicate the legislature changed its mind on this point: The 2021 Texas legislature ultimately decided to exclude even the owner's address as information that a 1994 and later COA has to share with owners. See
https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB318/id/2407060/Texas-2021-SB318-Enrolled.html
https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB318/2021
and
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/analysis/html/SB00318H.htm

By contrast and for Texas HOAs, TPC 209.005 states that a Texas HOA may withhold contact information, except for the owner's address. In other words, Texas HOAs still have to share owners' mailing addresses. This part of TPC 209 appears to have been added around 2012, per House Bill 2761.

I think what the Texas legislature ultimately decided for 1994+ Texas condos flies in the face of nonprofit corporation statutes and much law on the subject of an owner's right to reach out to other owners, via having access to, at a minimum, the mailing addresses of other owners. Still, after much study to me the following is crystal clear: For 1994 and later Texas COAs, the Texas legislature absolutely intended to deny all owners' contact information, including owners' mailing addresses, to any owner making such a request (with some minor caveats).

The good news for LaskaS is that TPC 82.002 is crystal clear that section 82.1141 does not apply to pre-1994 COAs. To me the following is also crystal clear: For pre-1994 Texas COAs, the Texas legislature absolutely intended to grant owners' mailing addresses, to any owner requesting the addresses.

Of note: The Texas legislative history shows there were times when the legislature considered making TPC 82.1141 applicable to both pre-1994 and 1994 and later condos, via amendment of TPC 82.002. This never made it into law.

Anyone arguing: 'Augustin, you're just trying to be a sea lawyer and get those mailing addresses from this COA.' I do not think I am being any more or any less a sea lawyer than the cute legislators who, for 1994 and later COAs, took away the owners' rights to have ready access to the mailing addresses of all owners (leading to contacting these other owners, campaigning for regime change, and, ya know, potentially replacing a board). For 1994 and later Texas COAs, owners get to go through the tedious process of looking up mailing addresses in property tax records.

What happened to make the 2021 legislatures decide to take away the right of 1994 and later Texas condo owners to have mailing addresses? I do not know. All I can say is that, to me, this was very much intentional.

The bad news for LaskaS: Since TPC 82.1141 does not apply to her/his COA, she/he cannot take denial of a records request to a Texas Justice Court. This may take a lot of the wind out of LaskaS's sails. On the other hand, I suspect her COA's board and maybe her COA's attorney have not figured out that TPC 82.1141 does not apply to this pre-1994 condo association.

LaskaS should continue to cite TPC 82.114 (expressly applying to all Texas condos, regardless of the year the condo's declaration was recorded) and BO 22.351 as giving her/him a right to the mailing addresses.

Good catch by BenA2.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I still stand the HOA address is the right address to give out. That is PUBLIC information. Personal contact information outside of the HOA is not.

Example where this came into legal play: An owner was foreclosed on by their HOA for not paying dues. They claimed they were never notified and the foreclosure had no merit. The court ruled that the HOA followed proper procedure by sending certified letters to the HOA address AND by publicly announcing intent to foreclose publicly. (This is a requirement to publish in a public resource for up to 3 months prior to foreclosure). The HOA member/Owner had no excuse according to the court/judge just because they did not contact them outside their HOA address. It is the HOA address they are foreclosing on.

Two things assured eath and taxes. What if this had been a tax or bank foreclosure? The same thing. Serving on the HOA address first and foremost. It is the one that is in trouble.

It is also the ONLY address I would provide membership for contact list. That is enough information to mail/contact the membership you want to address. You will have the same success as the HOA would. There is still google if you got their name.
Former HOA President
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 4:32 AM
I still stand the HOA address is the right address to give out. That is PUBLIC information. Personal contact information outside of the HOA is not.

Example where this came into legal play: An owner was foreclosed on by their HOA for not paying dues. They claimed they were never notified and the foreclosure had no merit. The court ruled that the HOA followed proper procedure by sending certified letters to the HOA address AND by publicly announcing intent to foreclose publicly. (This is a requirement to publish in a public resource for up to 3 months prior to foreclosure). The HOA member/Owner had no excuse according to the court/judge just because they did not contact them outside their HOA address. It is the HOA address they are foreclosing on.

Two things assured eath and taxes. What if this had been a tax or bank foreclosure? The same thing. Serving on the HOA address first and foremost. It is the one that is in trouble.

It is also the ONLY address I would provide membership for contact list. That is enough information to mail/contact the membership you want to address. You will have the same success as the HOA would. There is still google if you got their name.

As always, it's about what you think makes sense and not about what state statutes, governing docs or case law might say. I sincerely hope you do not end up on your new communities Board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
For me if you are that invested in getting your point across in your HOA to contact every member then do the work. This information is NOT private by any means. I do not live at your HOA and bet I can get a list. Not even by requesting.

Looky there I can drive or walk by for your address any time I want. You have a mailbox and address out front I can address anyone in the home. Does it have to have the owners name on it? Nope. To whom it may concern is good enough.

Sorry not into handing things over with no effort made on your part. I respect the work and effort as everyone else would. Otherwise your letter you send me is tossed out in the trash.
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 6:28 AM
For me if you are that invested in getting your point across in your HOA to contact every member then do the work. This information is NOT private by any means. I do not live at your HOA and bet I can get a list. Not even by requesting.

Looky there I can drive or walk by for your address any time I want. You have a mailbox and address out front I can address anyone in the home. Does it have to have the owners name on it? Nope. To whom it may concern is good enough.

Sorry not into handing things over with no effort made on your part. I respect the work and effort as everyone else would. Otherwise your letter you send me is tossed out in the trash.
This despite your insistence that all follow the rules, Bylaws, CC&Rs, and so on:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/06/2013 9:09 PM
My HOA experience started after I moved into one. ... I was elected as President the next year. ... Basically straightened out the HOA and brought back into alignment with the rules. Which I brought to each meeting. I spent alot of time educating our members on the rules and referenced them when questions were answered. Things improved and house sales skyrocketed. Plus the HOA never looked better as properties were addressed and cleaned up.

Now I have also been on the other side and fought against my HOA. The new board who replaced me did things wrong. They forced a unnecessary special assessment without the proper vote or work needed. Me and other owners had to hire a lawyer.
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/12/2016 11:31 AM
I am a former President. ... I ALWAYS brought a copy of the by-laws, CC&R's, and Articles of Incorporation to each and every meeting. Why not? Decisions we made had to directly quote them. Maybe something your HOA may want to consider...
Which is it, MelissaP1: If an owner sent your Board a letter quoting the statutes and bylaw that state the HOA is obliged to provide each owner's mailing address, would you comply with the statutes and bylaw?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Their HOA address IS their mailing address. Any other location they may live is NOT an HOA mailing address. It does NOT reside or is a member of the HOA outside of the HOA address.

Until I see where you can pay taxes for a property you own by using a different address it does not reside then HOA address is the one I will use.

I may live in New York and have a condo in Miami. I am not paying the tax rates for New York because I live there. I am paying the taxes of Florida because that is my Florida owned property. You are the owner on record.

The HOA address is the owners address whether or not they live there.
Former HOA President
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 7:22 AM
Their HOA address IS their mailing address. Any other location they may live is NOT an HOA mailing address. It does NOT reside or is a member of the HOA outside of the HOA address.

Until I see where you can pay taxes for a property you own by using a different address it does not reside then HOA address is the one I will use.

I may live in New York and have a condo in Miami. I am not paying the tax rates for New York because I live there. I am paying the taxes of Florida because that is my Florida owned property. You are the owner on record.

The HOA address is the owners address whether or not they live there.

Melissa. Try using that reasoning when the Post Office doesn't deliver mail to the unit address because the addressee doesn't live there. Owner's don't live in P.O. Boxes either, but that is considered a legal address for mailing purposes.

The owner's address is where they accept their mail, not the address of an owned rental unit.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 7:22 AM
Their HOA address IS their mailing address.
You and I both know that nationwide and for non-resident owners, HOAs and COAs have a mailing address that is different from the owner's HOA lot address or COA unit address.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
LaskaS, did you notice 82.114 section (c) ?

Sec. 82.114. ASSOCIATION RECORDS.

(a) The association shall keep:
...
(4) the name and mailing address of each unit owner;

(c)
The association shall, as a common expense, annually obtain an independent audit of the records. Copies of the audit must be made available to the unit owners. An audit required by this subsection shall be performed by a certified public accountant if required by the bylaws or a vote of the board of directors or a majority vote of the members of the association voting at a meeting of the association.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again HOA address IS the property the HOA recognizes and IS what makes you a member. Anything outside of that address is Courtesy not a requirement. The house you file a lien or foreclosed on is the address you use. This is the address used for PUBLIC notices. It is not the one you live.

Are public legal notices illegal then if you do not include their residence address?

Ask a lawyer if an address outside the HOA is required to be given out or just HOA address since HOA business.

Quite frankly it would piss me off for a HOA member to send me something in the mail to my non HOA address. The HOA fine. A complete stranger not so much
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 8:02 AM
Again HOA address IS the property the HOA recognizes and IS what makes you a member. Anything outside of that address is Courtesy not a requirement.
From TPC 82.114, applicable to all texas condominiums:


Not later than the 30th day after the date of acquiring an interest in a unit, the unit owner shall provide the association with:

(1) the unit owner's mailing address, telephone number, and driver's license number, if any;

(2) the name and address of the holder of any lien against the unit, and any loan number;

(3) the name and telephone number of any person occupying the unit other than the unit owner; and

(4) the name, address, and telephone number of any person managing the unit as agent of the unit owner.

(f) A unit owner shall notify the association not later than the 30th day after the date the owner has notice of a change in any information required by Subsection (e), and shall provide the information on request by the association from time to time.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 8:02 AM
Again HOA address IS the property the HOA recognizes and IS what makes you a member. Anything outside of that address is Courtesy not a requirement. The house you file a lien or foreclosed on is the address you use. This is the address used for PUBLIC notices. It is not the one you live.

Are public legal notices illegal then if you do not include their residence address?

Ask a lawyer if an address outside the HOA is required to be given out or just HOA address since HOA business.

Quite frankly it would piss me off for a HOA member to send me something in the mail to my non HOA address. The HOA fine. A complete stranger not so much

The recorded deed makes you a member, not the mailing address. Notices should be sent to a mailing address. Ever fill out a form, passport, voter registration, even a vehicle registration, etc. that asks for a mailing address in addition to a physical address?

Our HOA gets mailed addressed to an owner that doesn't live there returned by the post office all the time. The HOA must have a CURRENT mailing address for the owner.

WOW! I can't imagine an owner with multiple rentals only receiving mail at the rental address for the renter. Things may be different where you are, but here if a renter received a Property Tax bill, violation letter, or notice of hearing, they'd probably ignore it or throw it away.

There was a court case not to long ago. A foreclosure was overturned. It was determined that the HOA did not use all means provided to them to locate the owner. They only sent the notices to the unit number. Ignored an alternative mailing address and email address.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The operative words being To the Association. It does not say to individual members. It says to the HOA as a whole. After that the association rules are names and HOA addresses.

I would not give out a driver's licence number, email, or other PII to members.
Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Vote: would you want your HOA to give out your mailing address outside the HOA or phone/email address to any member that asks for it?
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 8:45 AM
The operative words being To the Association.
Non sequitur. You posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 8:02 AM
Again HOA address IS the property the HOA recognizes and IS what makes you a member.
The statute section I quoted above requires owners to provide their mailing address to the HOA. What the HOA recognizes is this mailing address.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 8:48 AM
Vote: would you want your HOA to give out your mailing address [irrelevant stuff deleted] to any member that asks for it?
So you think a board vote or owners' vote should be able to override the governing documents, and the following is you lying:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/06/2013 9:09 PM
My HOA experience started after I moved into one. ... I was elected as President the next year. ... Basically straightened out the HOA and brought back into alignment with the rules. Which I brought to each meeting. I spent alot of time educating our members on the rules and referenced them when questions were answered. Things improved and house sales skyrocketed. Plus the HOA never looked better as properties were addressed and cleaned up.

Now I have also been on the other side and fought against my HOA. The new board who replaced me did things wrong. They forced a unnecessary special assessment without the proper vote or work needed. Me and other owners had to hire a lawyer.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Opinion. Do you think any HOA member should have the right to information beyond your name on title and HOA address?

It is that simple. Would you want someone like Laska contacting you ? Keep in mind your lack of interaction or interaction with them just fuels more and more flames.
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 9:22 AM
Opinion. Do you think any HOA member should have the right to information beyond your name on title and HOA address?
You yourself have said repeatedly that you expect owners and directors to comply with the governing documents and statues. You have posted that you "referenced [the governing documents] when questions were answered. You posted that, "Decisions [your former Board] made had to directly quote [the governing documents]."

Now you're saying you would throw out the governing documents and evidently state statutes.

When you explain this inconsistency, then I will respond to your question.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No. I am saying the HOA is owed this information. I do not believe an individual member is allowed access to it. Meaning the HOA Secretary and/or board may know email and alternative mailing addresses. Do not believe that should be handed over to any one member. The one member is allowed names of other members and the HOA address. Not anything outside that scope.
Former HOA President
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 9:44 AM
No. I am saying the HOA is owed this information. I do not believe an individual member is allowed access to it. Meaning the HOA Secretary and/or board may know email and alternative mailing addresses. Do not believe that should be handed over to any one member. The one member is allowed names of other members and the HOA address. Not anything outside that scope.

As I said before, with you it's all about what you think and not what you know. You are a danger to newcomers here who are trying to educate themselves.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Our attorney states that e-mail addresses are considered "unlisted phone numbers" and thus the HOA does not need to provide those to homeowners upon request.

It's what they said...I was surprised but it does make sense that the HOA shouldn't provide e-mail addresses to anyone who asks.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 04/25/2022 10:00 AM
Our attorney states that e-mail addresses are considered "unlisted phone numbers" and thus the HOA does not need to provide those to homeowners upon request.

It's what they said...I was surprised but it does make sense that the HOA shouldn't provide e-mail addresses to anyone who asks.

The original question was about mailing addresses and not e-mail addresses.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No one is answering the question. Do you think the HOA should provide any of your neighbors your address outside off the HOA?

All you can do with this information is to send your PERSONAL letters to that address. You pay for the stamps. You also do NOT represent the HOA in any capacity. There is no complaining of their tenants allowed. Can not submit proxies for them. All can do is send letters of your personal opinion. The HOA is not in the business of personal opinion.

Again I do not think my HOA should provide anyone outside the scope of HOA business my personal information.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 10:19 AM
No one is answering the question. Do you think the HOA should provide any of your neighbors your address outside off the HOA?
Asked and answered by everyone here: For LaskaS's COA, the governing docs and statutes say yes. What the governing documents and statutes say makes sense.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I have not seen any one answer it yet. Stop hiding behind the statutes. Your honest opinion. Can you not give an opinion? Plus stand up for it?
Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I wouldn't have an issue with having owners within a community having my address, home or mailing and email address.

Michael's attorney is full of, well, you know what. There is case law supporting the release of email addresses to members of a corporation, WORLDMARK, THE CLUB v. WYNDHAM RESORT DEVELOPMENT CORP.(2010) 187 Cal.App.4th 1017.

Meliisa, in a matter like this, it doesn't matter what your opinion is, you have an obligation to uphold your governing documents and state statues. Since you are too lazy to do any reasearch and will only cit what you would have done, maybe it is time for you stop commenting here until you ate willing to put some time into what state statues may or may not say on a particlur topic.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Melissa has been spreading her myth about owners's mailing address literally for years. I agree with JohnT & others it's wrong to give newbies the impression she is correct. To me, it's even an ethical/moral issue. The inspection of assn. documents seems to be one of the biggest issues on this forum and we owe readers the correct answers. Owners have a lot of rights in many if not most states to have a copy of owners' mailing addresses.

In CA, Owners have the legal right to have owners' primary address--often NOT their assn. property--AND owners secondary address.

I've tried this with Melissa before: what are owners' rights re: obtaining owners' mailing address in your HOA? In Alabama? She usually says she doesn't know because she's not a lawyer. So apparently she recently bought her HOA home without reading/comprehending the governing clients. Or did she pay an attorney to read them to her?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My mailing address is my HOA address according to the HOA since it is the address that make me a member off the HOA..

How hard is that to understand? I am giving out that address and other members their HOA address. Never denied it. I just do not give addresses that are not part of the HOA. That is not in violation of any laws or requirements. I am giving the address on record that is the HOA address.
Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/25/2022 11:59 AM
My mailing address is my HOA address according to the HOA since it is the address that make me a member off the HOA..

How hard is that to understand? I am giving out that address and other members their HOA address. Never denied it. I just do not give addresses that are not part of the HOA. That is not in violation of any laws or requirements. I am giving the address on record that is the HOA address.

BS
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Tell me how it is BS? The fact that stating mailing address of member is their membership address. That is what all your rules and laws you posted state. It does not state all known addresses of the member. Which any other address is NOT an HOA address unless they own multiple homes in the HOA.

Still can not offer an OPINION on how would you like someone like Laska contacting you via email, phone, or alternative address.

Answer the question. Would you accept Laska contacting efforts or be mad at the HOA for allowing your information being released?
Former HOA President

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