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JonT4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
1. Our HOA has a no personal hot tub in yards rule. We do have 2 community hot tubs available 24/7. Must we allow an accommodation for a fully mobile person with a doctors statement?
2. If we allow the personal hot tub installation, can we restrict its use to that individual only?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
These things are rarely black and white. Regarding the mobility, I think there is a matter of convenience. I say that, since the cost to the HOA is nothing other than perhaps some unsightliness, and since the HOA can require the hot tub to be removed upon sale of the home, then the HOA should just approve it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If he's a fully mobile person, what is the accommodation for? Is he wanting to use the thing by himself - if so, what's the medical reason for that?

As for making an exception for a personal hot tub, you might want to run that by the association attorney, as the ADA may come into play. I would require the hot tub be removed when the house was sold or transferred, and I might also limit the size (a 2-4 person tub should be sufficient, otherwise I call BS). Or limit it to an inflatable tub, although there are pros and cons to that - read this for more education https://www.inflataspa.com/pros-cons-inflatable-hot-tubs/

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 04/16/2022 6:06 AM
If he's a fully mobile person, what is the accommodation for? Is he wanting to use the thing by himself - if so, what's the medical reason for that?

As for making an exception for a personal hot tub, you might want to run that by the association attorney, as the ADA may come into play.
The Fair Housing Act, not the ADA, is the relevant statute.

Back to the OP.

See below for what the HUD web site says about "who is disabled." The homeowner here may very well not have a disability that substantially limits him/her in the participation of major life activities. Or perhaps regular soaks in the hot tub (on account of a bad back or similar?) are what prevent the homeowner from being limited in life activities. Round and round the two sides' attorneys could potentially go. The applicant for the hot tub may very well, if push comes to shove, not meet the definition of "disabled." The problem is the 'pushing and then shoving' costs a lot of money in attorney fees.

This topic comes up a lot here. Let's see what the latest is from HOATalk members.

From https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disability_overview#_Who_Is_a :

Federal nondiscrimination laws define a person with a disability to include any (1) individual with a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities; (2) individual with a record of such impairment; or (3) individual who is regarded as having such an impairment.

In general, a physical or mental impairment includes, but is not limited to, examples of conditions such as orthopedic, visual, speech and hearing impairments, cerebral palsy, autism, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV), developmental disabilities, mental illness, drug addiction, and alcoholism.

Some impairments are readily observable, while others may be invisible. Observable impairments may include, but are not limited to, blindness or low vision, deafness or being hard of hearing, mobility limitations, and other types of impairments with observable symptoms or effects, such as intellectual impairments (including some types of autism), neurological impairments (e.g., stroke, Parkinson’s disease, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, or brain injury), mental illness, or other diseases or conditions that affect major life activities or bodily functions.

The term “major life activities” includes those activities that are important to daily life. Major life activities include, for example, walking, speaking, hearing, seeing, breathing, working, learning, performing manual tasks, and caring for oneself. There are other major life activities that are not on this list. Major life activities also include the operation of major bodily activities, such as the functions of the immune system, special sense organs and skin, normal cell growth, and digestive, genitourinary, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, cardiovascular, endocrine, hemic, lymphatic, musculoskeletal, and reproductive systems.

Under regulations implementing the ADA Amendments Act of 2008 some types of impairments will, in virtually all cases, be found to impose a substantial limitation on a major life activity resulting in a determination of a disability. Such impairments are “predictably assessed” as disabilities by the very nature of the impairment as substantially limiting a major life activity or major bodily function. Examples include deafness, blindness, intellectual disabilities, partially or completely missing limbs or mobility impairments requiring the use of a wheelchair, autism, cancer, cerebral palsy, diabetes, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) infection, major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injury, obsessive compulsive disorder, and schizophrenia. This does not mean that other conditions are not disabilities. It simply means that in virtually all cases these conditions will be covered as disabilities.

In general, the definition of “person with a disability” does not include current users of illegal controlled substances, but does provide protections for individuals with drug or alcohol addiction. Individuals would also be protected under Section 504 and the ADA if a purpose of the specific program or activity is to provide health or rehabilitation services to such individuals.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
We always sent requests for accommodations to our attorney and let him handle the verification and recommendation for action. Lawyers have seen enough of these things to know when someone is trying to scam the HOA, and they know what a "reasonable accommodation" is. (Note from our attorney: a person may be entitled to a reasonable accommodation, but is not entitled to their preferred accommodation.)

With others, I'm not sure I understand the need to accommdater a fully mobile person who presumably can use one of the community hot tubs.

On the other hand, if hot tubs aren't allowed in yards, would it be an issue for them to be on a patio with screening for privacy? Are there water usage or drainage issues? Are the yards/patios common area, or are they owned by individual owners?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/16/2022 7:46 AM
We always sent requests for accommodations to our attorney and let him handle the verification and recommendation for action. Lawyers have seen enough of these things to know when someone is trying to scam the HOA, and they know what a "reasonable accommodation" is. (Note from our attorney: a person may be entitled to a reasonable accommodation, but is not entitled to their preferred accommodation.)

With others, I'm not sure I understand the need to accommodate a fully mobile person who presumably can use one of the community hot tubs.

On the other hand, if hot tubs aren't allowed in yards, would it be an issue for them to be on a patio with screening for privacy? Are there water usage or drainage issues? Are the yards/patios common area, or are they owned by individual owners?

Forgot to add, if the disability involved is an illness, then it may be reasonable that the person would need to avoid communal facilities.

Still, I recommend getting the association attorney's opinion. It's easy to get this wrong, and the laws can be unforgiving.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Per another thread, I agree a Board should treat legal disputes (or potentially legal disputes) as financial decisions.

If the OP's board turns to its attorney for advice on this, then I think one question that must be asked is:

HOA Board:
HOA attorney, if this allegedly disabled owner submits a Fair Housing complaint to HUD, and the complaint gets to the point where HUD submits the complaint to us for a response, will you have to get involved right away? If so, about how much would your review cost?

HOA Attorney:
Good question [he nobly responds, realizing the jinx may be up]. If the owner submits an FHA complaint to HUD, then both I and probably your insurer will advise, and possibly require, my immediate involvement. I am not sure how many hours I would have to spend on this. But I bet the bill, just to review the complaint and research the statute and case law, would easily exceed $5000. Assisting the HOA with its response will be another $2000 to $5000.

Savvy Boards will be aware that HOATalk has at least two reports in the last few years of HOA-specialized attorneys diddling over FHA complaints that HUD actually dismissed within 30 days of the official filing date, without the HOA even responding. The attorney's billable hours were on the order of $10,000 in both cases. Word it out in the HOA/COA attorney industry: Fair housing complaints are cash cows for HOA/COA attorneys. Toss in that your typical HOA/COA attorney is not Fair Housing law specialized. The HOA/COA attorney is billing the HOA/COA to get an education in same.

This is not to say the OP's board should necessarily cave. It is to say that the advice from the HOA/COA attorney may be far from unbiased.

The instant an owner threatens a FHA complaint to HUD, seriously consider giving the owner what he/she wants, assuming what he/she wants does not cost he HOA/COA anything really meaningful?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I always keep in mind the NEXT owner will not need the hot tub...

Former HOA President

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