💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
One of our residents wants to add steps to their deck. Our governing documents say:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in this Declaration, no exterior addition to, or change or alteration (including, but not limited to any change or alteration of the exterior finish or color thereof) of any Unit shall deviate from the nature, kind, shape, height, materials, colors, dimensions or location as installed by the Declarant. No new decks are permitted. Existing decks (as installed by the Declarant, including, without limitation, layout, color and design) are permitted to be repaired as approved by the Executive Board. Repairs to any decks are confined to the footprint of the existing deck. Repairs to existing deck (as installed by the Declarant) shall be designed, constructed and maintained with open plank decking to permit stormwater runoff to pass directly to the soil-below. Concrete patios and roofs over decks are prohibited.

Do you think this language prohibits stairs to be added to a deck? A suggestion has been made that adding stairs to an existing deck would not add to the "footprint" of the deck. As well, the landing of the stairs needs concrete, but a suggestion has been made that is not the same as a concrete patio which is prohibited.

Most properties in our townhouse community would not be able to have stairs because there is a stormwater impact. However, this property would not have any stormwater impact. Additionally, the township zoning hearing board would need to allow a variance as there is a 20 foot easement/setback rule. Therefore, it could get complicated/messy since not all residents would be permitted to add stairs.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Our Association would require an Architectural Request form to be submitted to the Board for approval The owner would need to get a city permit to install the steps to ensure that the steps are built to city building codes.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
All for one and one for all is this catagory. What works for one does not work for everyone. With that being said, all things must stay consistent. I would say no to the stairs. Plus it may allow for thieves easier access.

I would suggest an emergency ladder that drops out over the side or out a window. That is for fire safety purposes. However, may allow them the stair access they desire

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArthurS7 on 04/13/2022 5:29 AM
One of our residents wants to add steps to their deck. Our governing documents say:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in this Declaration, no exterior addition to, or change or alteration (including, but not limited to any change or alteration of the exterior finish or color thereof) of any Unit shall deviate from the nature, kind, shape, height, materials, colors, dimensions or location as installed by the Declarant.
...
Do you think this language prohibits stairs to be added to a deck?
Yes, of course.
ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 04/13/2022 5:53 AM
Our Association would require an Architectural Request form to be submitted to the Board for approval The owner would need to get a city permit to install the steps to ensure that the steps are built to city building codes.

The homeowner initiated the process with an Architectural request form and the plans from the contractor. The city has said no permit would be needed, but they would need to have a Zoning Board Hearing for a variants to the 20 foot setback rule
ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/13/2022 5:56 AM
All for one and one for all is this catagory. What works for one does not work for everyone. With that being said, all things must stay consistent. I would say no to the stairs. Plus it may allow for thieves easier access.

I would suggest an emergency ladder that drops out over the side or out a window. That is for fire safety purposes. However, may allow them the stair access they desire

That's what our property managed recommended for people that felt they needed it for fire safety purposes. Note that all our houses have inside sprinklers too.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Getting rid of the excess, confusing verbiage, your docs indicate, "... no exterior addition to, or change or alteration ... of any Unit shall deviate from the ... as installed by the Declarant."

In short ... no addition to, change or alteration of what was originally constructed/installed is permitted.

Your question of "Do you think this language prohibits stairs to be added to a deck?". Yes, I do think your documents prohibit the addition of steps to a deck.

And since prohibited, the additional suggestions of it not adding to the footprint of the deck and as needing a concrete landing do not need to be entertained. Although if the steps are proposed to be added outside of the existing structure, then this would add to the footprint (as it increases the outside perimeter of the structure). And you couldn't add them any other way that wouldn't also change the existing, as-built structure. And I'd argue that an impervious concrete landing is not an essential element of stair construction. Solid footers, yes, but a concrete landing, not necessarily (and a landing could be constructed differently).

Also it would be worthwhile to keep in mind that if/when one homeowner is allowed to add steps, then you may get more requests for the same. But shutting it down now, because the docs presently prohibit this improvement anyway IMO, will likely prevent this situation.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Assuming the deck hangs over common elements - not a person's personally owned lot - then yes, the steps add to the footprint. In addition, the steps may make it harder for the lawn care crew to mow and fertilize around the deck.

Think twice about this one.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Augustin & ND, the declaration is clear: No additions or alterations. The word "footprint" is a distraction.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Our ARB would say that if you need to have a variance hearing because it violates the setback then we won't approve. Isn't the land between the units common property?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The stairs may be a necessity due to range of motion or limited mobility. Maybe they can't lift their leg that high.
ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 04/13/2022 11:32 AM
Our ARB would say that if you need to have a zoning variance hearing because it violates the setback then we won't approve. Isn't the land between the units common property?

Land behind and in front of units belongs to the homeowner, but is maintained by the HOA.

For the property in question, it's on the edge, so ends with the fence to the community. Beyond the fence is the retirement home property.

Also, the resident contacted a Township representative who told this person to first get the community to approve a change in the declaration to allow it (which assumes everyone on here is correct that stairs would violate the current declaration), and then proceed with the variance hearing. On the other hand, the township engineer said to the property manager to first get the zoning variance hearing, and then have the community consider changing the declaration. And keep in mind, no one with stormwater aspects on their property would be allowed to have stairs, which affects the 66% needed to change the declaration.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArthurS7 on 04/13/2022 11:42 AM
Posted By LoriM15 on 04/13/2022 11:32 AM
Our ARB would say that if you need to have a zoning variance hearing because it violates the setback then we won't approve. Isn't the land between the units common property?


Land behind and in front of units belongs to the homeowner, but is maintained by the HOA.

For the property in question, it's on the edge, so ends with the fence to the community. Beyond the fence is the retirement home property.

Also, the resident contacted a Township representative who told this person to first get the community to approve a change in the declaration to allow it (which assumes everyone on here is correct that stairs would violate the current declaration), and then proceed with the variance hearing. On the other hand, the township engineer said to the property manager to first get the zoning variance hearing, and then have the community consider changing the declaration. And keep in mind, no one with stormwater aspects on their property would be allowed to have stairs, which affects the 66% needed to change the declaration.

Beside the alteration issue, if I was on the Board there is no way I would want to go through the time, money and hassle to change the declaration for one homeowner.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/13/2022 5:56 AM

I would suggest an emergency ladder that drops out over the side or out a window. That is for fire safety purposes. However, may allow them the stair access they desire

How the hell did you dream that nonsense up?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It was not just me. Their MC said same thing. What is wrong with an emergency ladder?

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Totally agree with JohnT. Buyers know the no alteration or additions restriction in the CC&Rs. Forget planning, zoning dept., etc.

I don't get LetA's lift-their-leg-that-high remark. To step from the unit to the deck???

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Totally agree with JohnT. Buyers know the no alteration or additions restriction in the CC&Rs. Forget planning, zoning dept., etc.

I don't get LetA's lift-their-leg-that-high remark. To step from the unit to the deck???

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/13/2022 1:07 PM
Totally agree with JohnT. Buyers know the no alteration or additions restriction in the CC&Rs. Forget planning, zoning dept., etc.
I agree. Arthur, if you are new to the law of covenants, as far as the HOA is concerned, all that matters is that what is proposed is a blatant violation of the covenants. New directors often think approving a violation of the covenants is no big deal, because they think the violation is so minor. But this is not how the courts see it.

Furthermore, and more for the archives, I would not be so optimistic that the city would approve a variance. In many cities code enforcement does not mess around and needs an exceptionally good reason to grant a variance.

This situation shows signs of an owner being charming with the board, sucking up to the board, and so on, all to get what he/she wants. Stop now. Your loyalty is not with any one owner. Your loyalty should be almost exclusively to the governing documents, the state HOA statute, the state nonprofit corporation statute, and the federal Fair Housing Act. This is the contract to which all agreed when they bought into the HOA.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here