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ArtB1 (Florida)
Posts: 97
Posted:
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-faced-foreclosure-not-from-their-mortgage-lender-but-from-their-hoa

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Our HOA regularly files foreclosure lawsuits against those who cannot pay. In the end, the homeowners find the money to pay before the house goes to a sheriff sale. We have moved forward with foreclosure lawsuits probably 5 times in the last 2.5 years that I have been on the Board.

Ultimately, there are costs of homeownership. These include: ongoing home maintenance, taxes, utilities, and HOA dues. If a person chooses not to pay any of the previously listed costs, there are consequences. In the case of home maintenance, deferring it means one lives in a rundown house. In the case of taxes, the government takes title to the property and sells it for you. In the case of HOA dues, foreclosure lawsuits are filed.

Our HOA sends out many letters and offers payment plans prior to filing a foreclosure lawsuit. Most often, homeowners in financial difficulties ignore these letters rather than reaching out to us, which is unfortuante.

I feel really bad when I see the attorney fees pile up (these are charged to the homeowner) once we get legal involved. Had the homeowner simply reached out to us and arranged a payment plan, we could have helped them a lot.

But homeowner association dues are required, and ultimately, if one cannot afford to pay them, they cannot afford to live in our community.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
We've discussed dealing with delinquencies in the past, and I dealt with a few delinquent homeowners when I was on the board.

I believe that a payment plan only works if the homeowner wants to pay the assessments and if his difficulty is temporary. If the person truly can't afford their home, then the payment plan only delays the inevitable - although it will demonstrate that the HOA bent over backwards to work with the person. This last piece is important if you go up against a judge that believes HOAs are nasty bullies that take advantage of homeowners.

On the other hand, foreclosures are easier when the homeowner stops paying altogether (according to our attorney). If the person is paying in dribs and drabs, the court will view this as attempting to pay and will probably not go along with foreclosure.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I contribute to ProPublica, as it has a lot of excellent investigation journalism (something most outlets don’t do anymore) and I thought this story was as balanced as they could make it. For me, it highlighted several things that influenced my thinking when I served as my board treasurer for five years:

1. Homeowners need to be educated – often – on why assessments are important. They are just as important as paying the mortgage, property taxes, utility bills, etc. If you don’t pay those legal obligations, you risk a lot of drama which could result in a lien being placed on your home, your utilities cut off, etc.

2. They should also be educated on the budget and how delinquencies affect the association’s ability to provide services. In my community, I heard a lot of “I don’t see where my money’s going – there’s trash everywhere!” Yes, but the board isn’t running around throwing illegal trash in the dumpster that the association has to pay someone to remove it! People also forget inflation – I paid $95 a month when I moved to my townhouse 20 years ago and now it’s over $150. Everything else has also gone up (I got my property tax bill last week and DAMN!)

3. Boards need to be fair and consistent in pursuing delinquencies, but not every delinquency is caused by a deadbeat, and they need to take the time to figure out the difference. That’s when communication is so important – we send out our collection policy with the upcoming year’s budget and it strongly encourages people to contact the property manager if they have financial stress. When people come to you, listen to them – it’s ok to require they submit written, verifiable proof of hardship to our attorney. In our case, we didn’t put people’s business in the street and I remember working with some people for two or three years to get their accounts up to date.

4. The dribs and drabs doesn’t work. If everyone else is paying, say $150 a month, and you chime in with $25, that’s not doing anything for your debt. We can’t fix a roof for $25. There were some people who would propose that and yet I saw newer cars parked in front of their homes, so priorities may have been a problem with some people. There used to be consumer credit counseling services that helped people negotiate payment plans with their creditors – I would send people to those agencies and if THEY said $25 was the best the homeowner could do, we could negotiate from that.

5. Foreclosure was always our last resort because we usually didn’t get anything anyway. The goal was to get out the deadbeat – why should someone stay in the community and get services and then jump around trying not to pay for whatever reason? The house may as well be vacant – not a great option either, but if we aren’t getting any money anyway, I’d rather use the money we are getting to serve the people who are actually paying.

Bottom line, there’s plenty to be said on both sides, and while I understand why people are going to the legislature, the legislature had better remember Surfside and actually do some critical thinking for a change to find a balance in this issue.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
I am in favor of limiting how and when an HOA can foreclose but its essential that HOAs retain that right, or they'd never be able to function. In Texas, HOAs can only foreclose for delinquent assessments, not unpaid fines or fees, any payments received must be applied to the assessment balance first. Every legislative session a bill is proposed that would cap the amount of legal fees that can be collected (usually at a super low number like $300) and that gets defeated.

Our property code also requires that foreclosure action be approved in an open meeting, so whenever one appears on an agenda, I get at least one homeowner who thinks its appalling that the HOA would "take someone's home away from them". And I tell them they are welcome to pay their neighbor's assessment for them if that's what they want to prevent. Shockingly, they never take me up on that.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 04/08/2022 7:36 AM
I am in favor of limiting how and when an HOA can foreclose but its essential that HOAs retain that right, or they'd never be able to function. In Texas, HOAs can only foreclose for delinquent assessments, not unpaid fines or fees, any payments received must be applied to the assessment balance first. Every legislative session a bill is proposed that would cap the amount of legal fees that can be collected (usually at a super low number like $300) and that gets defeated.

Our property code also requires that foreclosure action be approved in an open meeting, so whenever one appears on an agenda, I get at least one homeowner who thinks its appalling that the HOA would "take someone's home away from them". And I tell them they are welcome to pay their neighbor's assessment for them if that's what they want to prevent. Shockingly, they never take me up on that.



Yup. From time to time, someone on this site will ask about publishing a list of delinquent homeowners - my response is usually "if you really want to know, pull out your checkbook and pay some of these debts and I'll tell you exactly who they belong to! Good luck on getting reimbursed"

As for the cap on legal fees, that'll NEVER happen - there are lawyers (lots of them) in the legislature. Who would vote on something that'll affect their ability to secure the bag and stuff it with as many Benjamins they can grab?????


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Michael

What does it cost you to file a foreclosure suit? I assume this cost gets added to amount due the HOA.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/08/2022 9:06 AM
Michael

What does it cost you to file a foreclosure suit? I assume this cost gets added to amount due the HOA.

It's a few thousand. Yes, it is charged to the homeowner. Usually we send them to the attorneys when they owe about $1000 and they usually write a check to the tune of about $6500 or so if they wait until last minute to pay us. Allowing their account to go to legal is the worst possible thing for a homeowner in tough financial times.
DaveP8 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 47
Posted:
I would think bankruptcy would affect/delay HOA foreclosure.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveP8 on 04/08/2022 9:34 AM
I would think bankruptcy would affect/delay HOA foreclosure.



Yes it does and in a big way. When someone files chapter 13, collection efforts by the association and everyone else has to stop while the courts determine what's next. Usually, the homeowner works out some sort of payment plan through the court - the money will come in drabs and drips, but eventually you'll be paid.

Unfortunately, I found there are a lot of people who play the system and play it well. That homeowner I mentioned earlier that makes me want to cuss a lot (and did?) We would file a lien and the sheriff would then schedule a sherrif's sale and THE DAY BEFORE THE SALE, guess who would file for chapter 13 This happened at least three times during my tenure on the board - the owner never paid, the bankruptcy court would throw out the case, leaving the HOA to pursue foreclosure, and we'd start all over again.

The third time this happened, I went to court with our attorney. I was treasurer at the time) and was determined to tell the court about this owner's history. Instead, the owner's attorney announced he was withdrawing from representation and the court had already decided (again) to toss the case, and did, so I didn't get to testify.

Chapter 7 is a liquidation, where the owner may give up the house, but then the question is whether it's sold and there's enough money to pay everyone. The bank will always get theirs first (unless there's a government tax lien or something) and if there's anything left, the association might get its money. In our experience, we ended up writing off the account because there wasn't anything left.

And of course, the banks pursue their own foreclosures - if you know that's what happening, save your legal fees and let the bank do the dirty work. Most times you still won't get your money because they only care about their own. But at least the deadbeat will be gone and maybe the house will be purchased by someone who will pay (just pray it isn't an investor-owner....)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DaveP8 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 47
Posted:
The homeowner in your neighborhood must be related to someone in our neighborhood. Same issue. Homeowner filed for bankruptcy the day before house was to go to sheriff auction. I know the bankruptcy was vacated (?) but not sure what happened after that. I know the HOA has not received anything on back dues (over 10 years).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I read the article.
Thought it was interesting.

Problem is, many homeowners don't consider hoa/coa assessments a major debt that should be paid.

When I was treasurer, we had one homeowner who wouldn't pay assessments until we started legal action against them. Due to legal fees, it cost them more then it would have had they paid the assessments on time. Due to some legal fees that we could not charge to the member, the Association always lost money in the collection effort (yes, even with late fees attached). Not to mention the additional time all of this took. Fortunately we were self managed. An Association with a management company might have had to pay for that additional time.

Most Associations have a very tight budget and can only absorb so much loss.
Thankfully, we only had one member that did that. Had we had more, the Association might have struggled to meet all of it's obligations.

In the situation I described above, I lobbied for foreclosure (stop the bleeding and take our chances with the next owner).
The board was all for it until a name was attached to the proposal, then they didn't want to foreclose on someone they knew.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I am on the board of a private school. We had a family that had a huge amount in unpaid tuition and we finally filed a lien against the home. I used to get all of the court notices so I followed the case. There was a large mortgage on the home and every time the bank would file for foreclosure the homeowner would contact them and ask for a payment plan. For a while there was a federal program that made it easier for homeowners to do workouts instead of foreclosure. This guy took advantage of every opportunity to delay the foreclosure, many times at the last minute getting the bank to agree or the court to order the bank to agree. He would make one of the new payments under the payment plan and then stop paying again so the clock would start ticking. This went on for at least 5 or 6 years. The bank finally foreclosed but our lien was secondary and we never saw a penny. Some people are masters at the game.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I've been off the Board for a few months but I assume a guy who's been delinquent for several years still is. He is a master at everything being postponed with his "new" payment plans. We had a prez one of those years who owned next door to him and felt sorry for him, etc., which delayed action. We did start foreclosure proceedings on him last fall. Our collection attorneys have looked into his finances and it does seem like he has a healthy equity unless he has a lot of unrecorded loans. With such a red hot market here, I'm surprised he isn't selling.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree on the need for limits on foreclosures, but...

There already are limits:

* For one, many states forbid foreclosure for fines and other non-assessment debt.

* Second, a successful foreclosure requires much jumping through legal hoops, and delinquent owners can game the system almost indefinitely. If anything, I believe the laws protect the delinquent owner's rights more than those of the HOA.

* It costs money to file for foreclosure, meaning the debt has to be high enough to justify the cost, meaning the little piddly stuff goes unaddressed unless the HOA can resort to things like small claims court.

* Many HOAs don't ever recoup the delinquent assessments. Coupled with the legal costs of foreclosure, this means HOAs tend not to file for foreclosure unless they have a slam dunk case.

Here's a question for everyone who owns property in an HOA or COA: was it ever disclosed to you that you could end up obligated to keep your deadbeat neighbors' roof over their heads?

A lot of the articles on foreclosure talk about homeowners who run into hard financial times, and there are plenty of them. Readers feel sorry for these folks, and rightfully so: life has already kicked them, and now we're going to take their homes on top of it?

But the HOA/COA structure is an unstated method of transferring debts to others who did not explicitly agree to this (and some of whom may be struggling themselves). In some ways it's worse in condo communities. Delinquent condo owners are somewhat protected from the consequences of not paying - the water still runs, the toilets still flush, and the trash gets picked up. But this means that the neighbors are paying for these things, and they can't deduct these "charitable contributions" on their tax returns. Bottom line: it's legally approved theft.

(We have a chronic deadbeat in my community. I think they've been delinquent for almost the entire time they've lived in the community. They play the game: occasional payments, with strategic filing for bankruptcy as needed. Their credit is trashed, but what do they care? They've got a good deal thanks to their neighbors, in return for which we get attitude.)
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Playing devil's advocate some more....

One, I think the authors of the article are mis-identifying the problem. The real issue is homeowners not paying assessments, for whatever reason, and the HOA's limited options for dealing with this. The bills won't go away, many are not optional, and the board is obligated to take lawful and appropriate steps to deal with the shortfall in income. (My bylaws list foreclosing as one of the duties of the board, and it's one of those "must" duties, not "may". And we can foreclose for unpaid fines and other non-assessment charges.)

I also think some of the homeowners in the article are the authors of their own misfortune, to some extent.

Example 1:

"Kunic and her husband were served with a foreclosure lawsuit from the HOA in 2018, 12 years after she purchased their townhouse. Kunic doesn’t know many of the details of what happened because she said her husband, who died in 2020, handled the situation. But she said he had to borrow roughly $10,000 to pay off the HOA and keep their house.

Kunic, 49, said she didn’t know until she was contacted by Rocky Mountain PBS and ProPublica that her home came within three days of being auctioned off at a sheriff’s sale. She also didn’t realize how much of the payment her husband made had gone to paying the HOA’s legal fees."

My comment: You'd think she'd show a little more interest in the details since later on she's quoted as worrying about not being able to afford housing. This level of disengagement is the sort of thing that can lead to missed or late payments, ignored notices from the HOA, and the like. And then we're off to the races again. Completely avoidable unless the homeowner simply doesn't have the money - and that's not a problem that an HOA can solve.

Example 2:

"The Timbers’ collection policy states that payments are due on the first day of the month, and those not paid within 30 days are subject to late fees. Month after month, Edward James paid online through the HOA’s website and saved his receipts showing he paid within 30 days."

My comment: So he was in fact paying late - he waited until the last minute before late fees were assessed. He could so easily have decided to pay a few days earlier - still late! - and have avoided the whole mess. But he wanted things his way. (We had one like that. He drove his payment to the PM's office on the 7th day after it was due, which is the last day before our late charges are assessed. This worked OK unless day 7 fell on a weekend. A few times a year he was charged the late fee and was OUTRAGED every freakin' time. After about the fourth time he tried to bend my ear, I told him flat out: "You know how to fix this problem, but you won't do it. I can't help you." No sympathy here.

Further comments:

I'm not saying that the HOA and attorney in the article weren't aggressive or that they didn't make some mistakes. But if you want to fix this problem by focusing entirely on the HOA, then you're ignoring the role homeowners are playing. And when it gets right down to it, the homeowners are causing the problem by not paying. The HOA's aggressive tactics don't matter at all to the homeowners who are paying their assessments on time - in fact they benefit because they won't have to make up a shortfall that they didn't cause. ($200,000 in this case!)

So I consider the article to be unbalanced, no matter how well researched. I agree there is a problem, but you can't fix it if you ignore a good chunk of the cause. Unfortunately, that good chunk is a whole lot harder to fix than simply changing some laws to further limit HOAs' ability to collect delinquent assessments. So much easier to buy into the whole "those awful HOAs!" narrative.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/10/2022 2:22 PM
I'm not saying that the HOA and attorney in the article weren't aggressive or that they didn't make some mistakes. But if you want to fix this problem by focusing entirely on the HOA, then you're ignoring the role homeowners are playing. And when it gets right down to it, the homeowners are causing the problem by not paying. The HOA's aggressive tactics don't matter at all to the homeowners who are paying their assessments on time - in fact they benefit because they won't have to make up a shortfall that they didn't cause. ($200,000 in this case!)

So I consider the article to be unbalanced, no matter how well researched. I agree there is a problem, but you can't fix it if you ignore a good chunk of the cause.
I agree the authors, try as they might, made a poor case for the owners. I also think it's entirely possible that, for one, the Timbers HOA and its attorney did not make mistakes.

This part of the article quickly got my attention:

“The Timbers had mounting capital maintenance obligations, such as the replacement of 40-year-old water lines that were routinely bursting at great expense and inconvenience to our members, 40-year-old asphalt which was rapidly turning our parking lots into gravel, necessary roof replacements, and significant repairs [needed] to one of the association’s swimming pools which made it unusable,” the board said in a statement.

Eventually, the community voted to take out a $3 million line of credit to try to complete necessary repairs and maintenance.


Maybe propublica.org will next have the guts to report on how, when people do not pay their federal taxes, the IRS piles on penalties and interest; IRS garnishes wages; and yes, can foreclose on homes. Compared to the IRS, I think the chances of having a rational conversation with a HOA Board are much higher.

If these owners (upon whom the HOA foreclosed) had a real case, pro bono, low income legal clinics would be helping them. I imagine the counsel time and again is: It would be best to pay up, or sell your home and move elsewhere.

"Abuse of power... " Come on. Bad stuff happens; no question. But I do not feel volunteer boards should be persecuted for doing what the covenants require, and in the best interests of owners who can pay.

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