History of rule prohibiting commercial vehicles?

Started by MichaelT21 • 20 replies • 483 views

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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Like most HOAs, our HOA has a rule against commercial trucks. Our HOA, like most, define commercial trucks dual wheels on the rear axle, gvw over 10,000 pounds, or things like cranes that can extend beyond the perimeter of the vehicle.

At the meeting tonight, one board member thought that the rules were discriminatory toward blue collar workers (my words), which I suppose they are.

I am wondering if anyone here knows of the origin or history of such rules. They are extremely common in HOA communities. I agree that vehicles that fit the description above are ugly, but my sense is there is a reason beyond beauty of why the rule seems to exist at every single-family HOA community.

Anyone know any context to the rule that I can share with the other board members?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I suspect it goes back many years.

Some bans are due to municipality zoning laws or parking restrictions. Others are done via deed restrictions (aka hoa covenants).

I don't think you will ever find how it started without a ton of research.

see:

Commercial Vehicles in Residential Neighborhoods from find law.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I'm sure beauty is part of it, but my community also has that rule. The reason has less to do with appearance and more with space (already limited because we're a townhouse community), creating blind spots for traffic and wrecking the concrete due to weight. They may also be noisier than, say, a fan used by a painter (like my neighbor across the street).

You may never know the intent of the developer or the original homeowners, but if there are more people bringing work vehicles home, you're better focusing on issues that are more concrete as opposed to something based on beauty, which is subjective anyway.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

There are just a variety of reasons. Mostly due to the "Keeping up Appearances" mantra. Doesn't mean your HOA can't change it but most likely not going to. It's not really high on too many people's list to spend the time and money to make that change.

It also have to factor in that HOA's are not a place for "business". Some vehicles may lead one to believe one is running a business out of the home. So it also falls in line with not running a business in the home as well.

Times are a changing they say. Think commercial vehicle rules in HOA's are getting to the point of being antiquated. However, again it is up to your individual HOA to make the updates/changes.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

It's likely due to practical reasons as well, especially in condos. Parking space is often limited, and streets can be narrow. If commercial vehicles are hogging the space, others may be out of luck (and park on the grass).

Weight is also a concern. Residential streets may not be able to handle a lot of commercial traffic, and this will send your road maintenance costs through the roof. We have an access road adjacent to our property that is residential grade, and it sees a lot of heavy commercial vehicles (food and beer trucks). The road has been beaten to a pulp and is down to bare dirt in some spots, and it's less than 20 years old.

May also be related to the signage restriction in your CC&Rs, since many commercial vehicles have advertising on them.

And it may be due to the strict prohibition of commercial activity in a residential community.

So as others have said, this is likely due to many factors. Trying to keep a certain demographic out of the community may have been one of them, but that's not a reason to ignore the many valid reasons for the restriction.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 04/05/2022 9:40 PM

At the meeting tonight, one board member thought that the rules were discriminatory toward blue collar workers (my words), which I suppose they are.

I am wondering if anyone here knows of the origin or history of such rules. They are extremely common in HOA communities. I agree that vehicles that fit the description above are ugly, but my sense is there is a reason beyond beauty of why the rule seems to exist at every single-family HOA community.

Anyone know any context to the rule that I can share with the other board members?

-- Someone in the last year or so suggested rules prohibiting certain trucks were based in racism. I went looking and could not find confirmation of this.

-- Decades ago such rules might have been based in classism. But Fair Housing law does not prohibit classism, unless maybe it's clear that discrimination based on membership in one of the several protected classes is also occurring.

-- California statutes include a provision prohibiting unreasonable covenants. This 1987 California case law struck a HOA's covenant prohibiting trucks, because according to the court:

Beauty--even with cars--is in the eye of the beholder. In this world where those persons concerned with upwardly mobile status frequently drive off-road vehicles including well-appointed jeeps or pickup trucks, we think the trial court's ruling is eminently sensible. The pickup truck, often both comfortable and economical, has become for many the equivalent of the convertible in earlier years. As times change, cultural perceptions--including society's acceptance of certain types of vehicles--also change. The pickup truck no longer has a pejorative connotation. One person's Bronco II is another's Rolls-Royce.

See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/Bernardo-Villas-v-Black

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 04/05/2022 9:40 PM

At the meeting tonight, one board member thought that the rules were discriminatory toward blue collar workers (my words), which I suppose they are.

It very well may be discriminatory toward blue collar workers, but the fact is that "blue collar" is not a protected class as defined for federal discrimination. If there's enough 'blue collar' Members, they can band together to push through a change in the rules.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Like others have said, limited parking space is behind the spirit of the law until people started allowing the camel to poke his proverbial nose under the tent. Now the Camel is completely inside
the tent and it is a complete nightmare for many communities to tow "commercial" vehicles off private property because loony laws allow such foolery. Here in Nevada it is such foolery
that a unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured vehicle can be parked on private property for any amount of time. Of course red zone violations qualify for immediate tow. If the vehicle is damaged, unsightly,
flat tire etc the vehicle can be tagged with a 48 hour tow warning, the caveat is, if the vehicle is moved even an inch the 48 hour clock starts all over again.

This mess all started because people confuse two words, rights and abilities.. People started driving their work truck home because they are on call and don't want to drive to their worksite to pick up
the work truck, and I'm referring to bucket trucks or Vans with ladders like HVAC or the cable company uses. Now it's full on Semi cabs, not only those drivers that are bobtailing, parking a full rig with 80' trailer
in residential communities. When is this madness going to stop. Stop cow towing to those people who's mother never told them no and who's mom's that used the candy free lane at the grocery story.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

My last HOA had a ban on commercial vehicles parked overnight in the driveway. Each home has a at least a two car garage and a driveway big enough for 4 vehicles.

Some issue that arose:

1. A truck with a double rear axle (4 tires) but no signage or tools, ladders, etc. We rule not commercial.
2. A small car with an advertising wrap. We ruled commercial.
3. Two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door "Airport Limo". The other had no signs. We ruled the signage made it a commercial vehicle.
4. Two identical Ford Explorers. One had a sign on the rear window for a Real Estate Company. The other had no signs. We ruled the signage made it a commercial vehicle.
5. Got challenged on a State Police patrol vehicle having signage as being commercial. We ruled "public safety vehicles" were not commercial.
6. Got challenged on an ambulance vehicle having signage as being commercial. We ruled a business, not a not a public safety vehicle.

In my present HOA, some of our homes do not have garages thus no commercial overnight vehicles would not be proper.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Hey, Michael, on your post about your Board's 1st Zoom meetings, can you tell us how it went?? Meanwhile, you've mentioned a group of working class ppl in a certain part of you HOA, I think. Was it a member of that group who mentioned the trucks?

With some others, I think it's the bulk and appearance (of some) that are objectionable. Had a home on a 40ft. lot and could watch the pacific ocean from my front yard. BUT, the driveway of the house west of us -- about 30 feet away, was a 2nd home whose owners visited in their huge expensive pick-up truck. I totally lost my view when it parked there.

So I can see if homes are fairly close together that hulking vehicles in driveways could give a claustrophobic feel.

I think it is possible that years ago in the east where there are or were lots of enclaves of "white ethnics," e.g. Irish-American, Italian-Americans, who, say, 70 years ago were often blue collar workers, that white non-ethnics didn't want their trucks in their neighborhoods. But it was biases against the white ethnics in general IF if occurred. Hmm, might look this up.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/06/2022 4:42 PM
My last HOA had a ban on commercial vehicles parked overnight in the driveway. Each home has a at least a two car garage and a driveway big enough for 4 vehicles.

Some issue that arose:

1. A truck with a double rear axle (4 tires) but no signage or tools, ladders, etc. We rule not commercial.
2. A small car with an advertising wrap. We ruled commercial.
3. Two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door "Airport Limo". The other had no signs. We ruled the signage made it a commercial vehicle.
4. Two identical Ford Explorers. One had a sign on the rear window for a Real Estate Company. The other had no signs. We ruled the signage made it a commercial vehicle.
5. Got challenged on a State Police patrol vehicle having signage as being commercial. We ruled "public safety vehicles" were not commercial.
6. Got challenged on an ambulance vehicle having signage as being commercial. We ruled a business, not a not a public safety vehicle.

In my present HOA, some of our homes do not have garages thus no commercial overnight vehicles would not be proper.

This is exactly the thinking in our HOA in both the single family area and the condos (condos all have at least a single garage and room for two cars in the driveway).

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

This is perfect. As long as rules are clearly defined, and allowed per the governing documents, and uniformly applied, then its all above board. It's all about the contract that we all signed.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

The signage seems to be the common theme in your numbered items. I just wonder why the signage is problematic in your HOA. Do you mind sharing your opposition to the signage.

What hours are considered overnight?

On the historic prohibition to commercial vehicles, I do think it was a class issue. I have no specific facts to back that up, just through my lens as coming from a working-class family. It's my perception. I never lived in a community with an HOA until 13 years ago. My age is showing, because in my part of the country, HOAs were not that common. My perception was (I've changed my opinion) was that HOA's were for the ritzy upper classes that wanted to keep their neighborhoods in pristine condition. In my working-class neighborhoods it was not practical to have parking limitations.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I'm sure class was behind it. Some people have the attitude that they've come up to the point they don't "those vehicles" to remind them if where they came from. Off they can't relate at all to the people who worked their asses off ( using the van or truck) to get the money to afford said house.

That said,some of those work trucks and vans look like they've been through some stuff and looking at that every day may prompt you and passersby to wonder if the driver has heard of a car wash.

As for "overnight hours," is it too soon to ponder the fact that some people work overnight and so their " overnight hours" are going to be in the daytime?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

I said, "On the historic prohibition to commercial vehicles, I do think it was a class issue. I have no specific facts to back that up, just through my lens as coming from a working-class family. It's my perception. I never lived in a community with an HOA until 13 years ago. My age is showing, because in my part of the country, HOAs were not that common. My perception was (I've changed my opinion) was that HOA's were for the ritzy upper classes that wanted to keep their neighborhoods in pristine condition. In my working-class neighborhoods it was not practical to have parking limitations."

To expand on what I said, I think class comes to mind based on a person's increase in economic status. Some of those current rules in HOA's can come from where a person was raised and wanting to live in a nicer looking neighborhood. When I was growing up a lot of homes had no driveway and no garage to park in. Or there was a driveway but no garage. We had one car that ran and my father was constantly working on it to keep it running. Those realities stick in my mind and as I grew up my economics improved so of course I chose neighborhoods that were in line with my economics in bigger and nicer homes in nicer neighborhoods. One of my biggest pet-peeves was when my teen-age sons wanted to buy old hoopties to work on in my driveway. We had many an argument over that but I won out except for one car my youngest son brought home that left a huge oil spot in my driveway.

So personally, I can see why HOA's want to keep their neighborhoods looking nice hence some parking restrictions. I want my new neighborhood to look nice, and I do not want certain things that detract from that. I would much prefer a nice- looking vehicle with signage than an old oil leaker with no commercial signage.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

My new HOA we have a few people with work trucks in driveways. No one seems to care. Plus we have construction still going on. So always a work vehicle in our neighborhood.

My concern now is break ins. That is a popular thing in my town. Car break ins happen a lot due to people leaving vehicles in their driveway. Had one the other day. IMO you are responsible for your own property. So if you have a work vehicle it can be subject to crime due to the tools or equipment it may have inside.

I am sure more than one HOA has had to deal with someone blaming the HOA for this. If not, I would be surprised.

Former HOA President

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/07/2022 7:41 AM
My new HOA we have a few people with work trucks in driveways. No one seems to care. Plus we have construction still going on. So always a work vehicle in our neighborhood.

My concern now is break ins. That is a popular thing in my town. Car break ins happen a lot due to people leaving vehicles in their driveway. Had one the other day. IMO you are responsible for your own property. So if you have a work vehicle it can be subject to crime due to the tools or equipment it may have inside.

I am sure more than one HOA has had to deal with someone blaming the HOA for this. If not, I would be surprised.

We have street walkers every night walk the street and pull on car door handles looking for an easy score. I just saw the other day a owner fed up with thieves placed a flash bang in his lifted truck. In the
video you see the thief smash the drivers window, the their then hops up through the broken widow, once inside you see a flash of light and the thief runs away covering their eyes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I do not want to speak bad for this neighbor but... They posted their truck was broken into and gun stolen. Believe house may have been broken into as well. Scary...
However, they posted how we should keep our doors locked at all times. Now I am thinking this person has been leaving their doors unlocked with a gun inside in public view and access? There are kids here!

How responsible gun owner are you to keep it in an unlocked vehicle in your driveway? We have garages. No rules about being parked in them just not on the street. Why keep a gun in the open basically and then tell people to lock their doors?

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Yes, I've been reading a lot about break-ins in my area. Some articles say some of this is due to weather improving in several areas, so people may be leaving the door unlocked or the window cracked. On the Next Door website for my community, some said it may be better to leave the door unlocked so the thief won't smash the window and then your have that expense.

Personally, I'd never do it, so I'll resort to the usual - hide all valuables, lock the door, even if you're just running in for a moment, take the registration and garage door opener out of the car when you're done for the day, even if it's in a garage (put the stuff in a basket of something near the door so you can grab it before getting in the car), and so on.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BancsS on 04/07/2022 4:46 AM

It is being a SNOB. Nothing more.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/07/2022 10:20 AM

Posted By BancsS on 04/07/2022 4:46 AM

It is being a SNOB. Nothing more.

Well, that's being honest. I think it would be very challenging to create a parking rule that is fair to all. It is so situational. I guess that is for the HOA board to figure out and enforce or not.

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