Pool Heating Policy

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

For many years, our HOA community pool was heated in the non summer months on request (solely when an owner had guests who wanted to use the pool. Because of a sharp increase in natural gas costs, the Board recently implemented a policy which reads:

"Under no circumstance will the pool be heated during the months of November, December, January & February. Owners may request that the pool be heated only during the months of October, March, and April, with forecasted outside temperatures a consideration before the pool is heated. If the pool is heated for the homeowner, they will be expected to use the pool daily, while heated. Please recognize that this policy has been put in place to reduce unnecessary expenses (e.g. wear on our gas heater) which ALL owners incur when our pool is heated at 82 degrees and the night time temperatures are in the 40’s."

It became very costly to heat the pool on request in the coldest months, so instead of not heating the pool at all, the Board decided on a balanced compromise of three months of available pool heating.

Thus far, our community has been composed of owners not interested in swimming themselves who only request heating for their guests (primarily friends and family visiting from out of state). They usually request pool heating for 2-7 days.

The policy as it reads now does not restrict pool heating to only guests of owners. Any owner can request to have the pool heated, provided they use it. How would you handle a swimming enthusiast owner who requests the pool be heated for an entire month or two for themselves and the forecasted temperatures are mild? The owner in my opinion would certainly be violating the spirit and intent of the policy (i.e.. balance heating costs vs ability to enjoy a heated pool), but would our policy hold up to such a request (wanting pool heated for two consecutive months) if challenged by an owner? Based on our current policy, would we have to acquiesce to the owner?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Really???? Remind this guy why the policy was established in the first place - if he wants it heated for a month in mild weather, he can pay the gas bill - in advance. Or get some people to swim with him to better justify the price. Or go swim somewhere else. This really isn't rocket science.

Now having that, it may help to clarify what's considered mild weather. Considering people have different levels of tolerence, you could note the historical weather trends in your areas. You'll also have to consider how long it takes to heat the pool - why do all that for, say, three hours, only for this guy to show up for 45 minutes or something???

That also reminds me - when I took water aerobics years ago (indoor pool), the club required us to get in the shower for a few minutes before getting in the pool - not only was it a cleanliness issue, getting wet before getting in the pool made it easier for your body to adjust to the lower temperature. Tell this guy to get in the bloody shower before and after - that should take care of it

I also recall there were water aerobics classes for people with rheumatoid arthritis and the arthritis foundation (not sure of the exact name, but that's what I was told by the YMCA) had a recommendation for pool temperature. I might make an exception for that, but there would have to be several people using the pool at the same time.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Honestly, I think it makes more sense to heat the pool for owners than guests. Guests can be told the pool isn't heated, sorry (which is presumably what they are told in any community that doesn't have a heated pool.)

If the policy is that you will heat the pool in those months upon request, it really shouldn't matter what is motivating the request.

Either heat it for anyone who requests it during those months or don't heat it at all, for anyone. Don't pick and choose whose request is accommodated based on their reasons for the ask.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Honestly, I think it makes more sense to heat the pool for owners than guests. Guests can be told the pool isn't heated, sorry (which is presumably what they are told in any community that doesn't have a heated pool.)

If the policy is that you will heat the pool in those months upon request, it really shouldn't matter what is motivating the request.

Either heat it for anyone who requests it during those months or don't heat it at all, for anyone. Don't pick and choose whose request is accommodated based on their reasons for the ask.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I think that it would be easier to charge for using the pool during the colder months and just heat the thing unless you have to shut it down during very cold weather.

I've seen separate charges for use of the amenities, so it's been done before. And you have the psychological advantage of telling people "yes you can, and here's what it will cost" vs. "no you can't". Finally, what will you do if people agree to use the pool daily and then fail to do so? Policies should be developed with an eye to enforcement - if they're not reasonably enforceable, then the cost of enforcement will exceed the benefit of doing so.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

The current policy strikes me as inappropriate in a few ways. I would move to change it as follows:

"To use HOA funds efficiently for all owners, from April through October, and outdoor temperatures allowing, the pool will normally be heated as needed to achieve a water temperature of approximately ___ degrees F. The pool will not be heated for the months November through March. The Board reserves the right to close the pool earlier, or open it later, depending on outside temperatures."

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 03/31/2022 9:16 AM
The current policy strikes me as inappropriate in a few ways. I would move to change it as follows:

"To use HOA funds efficiently for all owners, from April through October, and outdoor temperatures allowing, the pool will normally be heated as needed to achieve a water temperature of approximately ___ degrees F. The pool will not be heated for the months November through March. The Board reserves the right to close the pool earlier, or open it later, depending on outside temperatures."

This is exactly the way I'd approach this.

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

A survey was conducted that asked owners whether or not they want to pool to be heated full time during the non-summer months and ZERO (yes, it was unanimous) homeowners were in favor of full time heating. Based on this and the gas cost increase, the Board decided to heat upon request for 3 months.

Historically, requests have come only from owners with guests, as there are no owners interested in swimming in the non-summer months. I don't think this will remain this way forever and there is a likelihood of swimmers moving-in who may want the pool heated full-time for 3 months or every other week, which is unreasonable. Most people are reasonable, but all it takes is one unreasonable person to challenge the policy which doesn't have a limit on number of days requested and then it becomes a reactionary situation.

One way to prevent an unreasonable request is to limit each owner to two days of heating per year. The downside to that is that if someone has guest visiting for a week, they would only be able to have it heated for 2 days.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 04/01/2022 4:36 AM
A survey was conducted that asked owners whether or not they want to pool to be heated full time during the non-summer months and ZERO (yes, it was unanimous) homeowners were in favor of full time heating. Based on this and the gas cost increase, the Board decided to heat upon request for 3 months.

Historically, requests have come only from owners with guests, as there are no owners interested in swimming in the non-summer months. I don't think this will remain this way forever and there is a likelihood of swimmers moving-in who may want the pool heated full-time for 3 months or every other week, which is unreasonable. Most people are reasonable, but all it takes is one unreasonable person to challenge the policy which doesn't have a limit on number of days requested and then it becomes a reactionary situation.

One way to prevent an unreasonable request is to limit each owner to two days of heating per year. The downside to that is that if someone has guest visiting for a week, they would only be able to have it heated for 2 days.

Personal opinion but I would be looking at avoiding the entire issue by doing away with heating the pool for guest. The primary purpose of the pool is for the owners and zero percent want it heated. As an owner, I have no incentive to pay for heating the pool for some other owner's grandkid.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 04/01/2022 4:36 AM
A survey was conducted that asked owners whether or not they want to pool to be heated full time during the non-summer months and ZERO (yes, it was unanimous) homeowners were in favor of full time heating. Based on this and the gas cost increase, the Board decided to heat upon request for 3 months.

Historically, requests have come only from owners with guests, as there are no owners interested in swimming in the non-summer months. I don't think this will remain this way forever and there is a likelihood of swimmers moving-in who may want the pool heated full-time for 3 months or every other week, which is unreasonable. Most people are reasonable, but all it takes is one unreasonable person to challenge the policy which doesn't have a limit on number of days requested and then it becomes a reactionary situation.

One way to prevent an unreasonable request is to limit each owner to two days of heating per year. The downside to that is that if someone has guest visiting for a week, they would only be able to have it heated for 2 days.

Why is it unreasonable for members of an HOA to want to use the amenities?

Why do you place so much importance on accommodating guests, but consider requests from actual members unreasonable?

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 03/31/2022 1:48 AM
For many years, our HOA community pool was heated in the non summer months on request (solely when an owner had guests who wanted to use the pool. Because of a sharp increase in natural gas costs, the Board recently implemented a policy which reads:

"Under no circumstance will the pool be heated during the months of November, December, January & February. Owners may request that the pool be heated only during the months of October, March, and April, with forecasted outside temperatures a consideration before the pool is heated. If the pool is heated for the homeowner, they will be expected to use the pool daily, while heated. Please recognize that this policy has been put in place to reduce unnecessary expenses (e.g. wear on our gas heater) which ALL owners incur when our pool is heated at 82 degrees and the night time temperatures are in the 40’s."

It became very costly to heat the pool on request in the coldest months, so instead of not heating the pool at all, the Board decided on a balanced compromise of three months of available pool heating.

Thus far, our community has been composed of owners not interested in swimming themselves who only request heating for their guests (primarily friends and family visiting from out of state). They usually request pool heating for 2-7 days.

The policy as it reads now does not restrict pool heating to only guests of owners. Any owner can request to have the pool heated, provided they use it. How would you handle a swimming enthusiast owner who requests the pool be heated for an entire month or two for themselves and the forecasted temperatures are mild? The owner in my opinion would certainly be violating the spirit and intent of the policy (i.e.. balance heating costs vs ability to enjoy a heated pool), but would our policy hold up to such a request (wanting pool heated for two consecutive months) if challenged by an owner? Based on our current policy, would we have to acquiesce to the owner?

First, I am going to parrot some others who find it odd that you feel it is more important to accommodate guests than residents.

Second, can I assume you have a gas heater, which allows you to quickly heat the pool up for short periods of time?

Finally, and someone else can answer this, can HOA's charge "use fees?" For instance, could the HOA charge a resident $50/day to heat the pool on request during certain months?

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidG45 on 04/01/2022 12:50 PM

Posted By NpB on 03/31/2022 1:48 AM
For many years, our HOA community pool was heated in the non summer months on request (solely when an owner had guests who wanted to use the pool. Because of a sharp increase in natural gas costs, the Board recently implemented a policy which reads:

"Under no circumstance will the pool be heated during the months of November, December, January & February. Owners may request that the pool be heated only during the months of October, March, and April, with forecasted outside temperatures a consideration before the pool is heated. If the pool is heated for the homeowner, they will be expected to use the pool daily, while heated. Please recognize that this policy has been put in place to reduce unnecessary expenses (e.g. wear on our gas heater) which ALL owners incur when our pool is heated at 82 degrees and the night time temperatures are in the 40’s."

It became very costly to heat the pool on request in the coldest months, so instead of not heating the pool at all, the Board decided on a balanced compromise of three months of available pool heating.

Thus far, our community has been composed of owners not interested in swimming themselves who only request heating for their guests (primarily friends and family visiting from out of state). They usually request pool heating for 2-7 days.

The policy as it reads now does not restrict pool heating to only guests of owners. Any owner can request to have the pool heated, provided they use it. How would you handle a swimming enthusiast owner who requests the pool be heated for an entire month or two for themselves and the forecasted temperatures are mild? The owner in my opinion would certainly be violating the spirit and intent of the policy (i.e.. balance heating costs vs ability to enjoy a heated pool), but would our policy hold up to such a request (wanting pool heated for two consecutive months) if challenged by an owner? Based on our current policy, would we have to acquiesce to the owner?

First, I am going to parrot some others who find it odd that you feel it is more important to accommodate guests than residents.

Second, can I assume you have a gas heater, which allows you to quickly heat the pool up for short periods of time?

Finally, and someone else can answer this, can HOA's charge "use fees?" For instance, could the HOA charge a resident $50/day to heat the pool on request during certain months?

Yes, they can. Some HOA's with a clubhouse charge user fees for member use of a clubhouse for private parties. If the Board charged user fees, I predict ZERO owners would pay the daily gas heating costs.

Regarding my HOA's pool use, owners are entitled to request the pool be heated. However, there have been ZERO owners who have requested the pool be heated in the non-summer months for their own personal use, most likely because they are not interested in swimming for various reasons, but their non resident family members are. Guests of recorded owners are permitted to use the common areas as well as family members who reside in the unit who are not recorded owners on the title.

The Board would have to honor requests from owners who want the pool heated for themselves, because the policy doesn't explicitly read for guests of owners only.

The policy doesn't address selfish owners who defy common sense and reasonableness and who want the pool heated every two weeks or for all three months.

I don't know what kind of a policy you would have to deter that.

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 04/03/2022 2:21 PM

Posted By DavidG45 on 04/01/2022 12:50 PM

Posted By NpB on 03/31/2022 1:48 AM
For many years, our HOA community pool was heated in the non summer months on request (solely when an owner had guests who wanted to use the pool. Because of a sharp increase in natural gas costs, the Board recently implemented a policy which reads:

"Under no circumstance will the pool be heated during the months of November, December, January & February. Owners may request that the pool be heated only during the months of October, March, and April, with forecasted outside temperatures a consideration before the pool is heated. If the pool is heated for the homeowner, they will be expected to use the pool daily, while heated. Please recognize that this policy has been put in place to reduce unnecessary expenses (e.g. wear on our gas heater) which ALL owners incur when our pool is heated at 82 degrees and the night time temperatures are in the 40’s."

It became very costly to heat the pool on request in the coldest months, so instead of not heating the pool at all, the Board decided on a balanced compromise of three months of available pool heating.

Thus far, our community has been composed of owners not interested in swimming themselves who only request heating for their guests (primarily friends and family visiting from out of state). They usually request pool heating for 2-7 days.

The policy as it reads now does not restrict pool heating to only guests of owners. Any owner can request to have the pool heated, provided they use it. How would you handle a swimming enthusiast owner who requests the pool be heated for an entire month or two for themselves and the forecasted temperatures are mild? The owner in my opinion would certainly be violating the spirit and intent of the policy (i.e.. balance heating costs vs ability to enjoy a heated pool), but would our policy hold up to such a request (wanting pool heated for two consecutive months) if challenged by an owner? Based on our current policy, would we have to acquiesce to the owner?

First, I am going to parrot some others who find it odd that you feel it is more important to accommodate guests than residents.

Second, can I assume you have a gas heater, which allows you to quickly heat the pool up for short periods of time?

Finally, and someone else can answer this, can HOA's charge "use fees?" For instance, could the HOA charge a resident $50/day to heat the pool on request during certain months?

Yes, they can. Some HOA's with a clubhouse charge user fees for member use of a clubhouse for private parties. If the Board charged user fees, I predict ZERO owners would pay the daily gas heating costs.

Regarding my HOA's pool use, owners are entitled to request the pool be heated. However, there have been ZERO owners who have requested the pool be heated in the non-summer months for their own personal use, most likely because they are not interested in swimming for various reasons, but their non resident family members are. Guests of recorded owners are permitted to use the common areas as well as family members who reside in the unit who are not recorded owners on the title.

The Board would have to honor requests from owners who want the pool heated for themselves, because the policy doesn't explicitly read for guests of owners only.

The policy doesn't address selfish owners who defy common sense and reasonableness and who want the pool heated every two weeks or for all three months.

I don't know what kind of a policy you would have to deter that.

One of us is missing something. My suggestion is to charge individual owners a daily usage fee if they want the pool heated out of season.

That would seem to resolve it.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Are you saying, NpB that your CC&Rs permit owners who are non residents to use the pool and to bring their guest to it?

In our HOA and in many others, Owners lose their rights to the recreational amenities when they don't reside in their units. In a case like yours,
tenants and their guests could use the pool. But the policy as written seems to exclude tenants?

Curious: How much does your HOA save on your gas bill during the 3 months when the pool's closed compared with Oct. & March, taking into account the average temp of each of those months?

Our HOA keeps ours heated year 'round and we have probably 8 residents who swim laps or do water aerobics at least 5 days a week, and 4-5 who swim laps 3-4 days a week. One man who must be 75 swims almost every day with goggles & flippers and appears to be drowning while he "swims" his 10 or so laps. But, you gotta bless 'im for taking advantage of one of our amenities to try to keep healthy.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

***The policy doesn't address selfish owners who defy common sense and reasonableness and who want the pool heated every two weeks or for all three months.***

But the owners who expect the rest of the community to pay for a heated pool for their guests aren't selfish? This is bonkers thinking.

Either heat for all or for none. Stop assigning morality to owners who want to use their amenities.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 04/04/2022 7:26 AM
***The policy doesn't address selfish owners who defy common sense and reasonableness and who want the pool heated every two weeks or for all three months.***

But the owners who expect the rest of the community to pay for a heated pool for their guests aren't selfish? This is bonkers thinking.

Either heat for all or for none. Stop assigning morality to owners who want to use their amenities.

Amen. This is borderline silly.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Agee with Barbara.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 04/04/2022 7:26 AM
***The policy doesn't address selfish owners who defy common sense and reasonableness and who want the pool heated every two weeks or for all three months.***

But the owners who expect the rest of the community to pay for a heated pool for their guests aren't selfish? This is bonkers thinking.

Either heat for all or for none. Stop assigning morality to owners who want to use their amenities.

Well said.

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 04/03/2022 5:18 PM
Are you saying, NpB that your CC&Rs permit owners who are non residents to use the pool and to bring their guest to it?

In our HOA and in many others, Owners lose their rights to the recreational amenities when they don't reside in their units. In a case like yours,
tenants and their guests could use the pool. But the policy as written seems to exclude tenants?

Curious: How much does your HOA save on your gas bill during the 3 months when the pool's closed compared with Oct. & March, taking into account the average temp of each of those months?

Our HOA keeps ours heated year 'round and we have probably 8 residents who swim laps or do water aerobics at least 5 days a week, and 4-5 who swim laps 3-4 days a week. One man who must be 75 swims almost every day with goggles & flippers and appears to be drowning while he "swims" his 10 or so laps. But, you gotta bless 'im for taking advantage of one of our amenities to try to keep healthy.

The common areas are for the use of owners and any invitee of an owner, whether they be paid tenants or family/friends visiting. Owners are responsible for the behavior of guests on common area and can be fined for violating CC&Rs.

I think this discussion is going off track because some are focusing too much on guests of owners. I simply mentioned that in the current and past composition of owners, there are no owners who are interested in having the pool heated for themselves in the non-summer months. There is nothing in the present pool heating policy that prevents an owner from requesting the pool be heated for that owner, nor is there anything in the pool heating policy that limits requests to owners with guests. It just so happens that the only owners with visiting guests have requested pool heating.

In the next year, there could be multiple units that sell and all the new owners themselves could be swimming enthusiasts who request the pool heated for themselves.

I originally posited how would one handle a situation where an owner requests the pool be heated (no matter if it's for their guests of for themselves) for two consecutive weeks, an entire month or all three months?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Now you're sounding like this is one of your hypothetical questions. You'll drive yourself crazy thinking "what if this or that happens" and you really need to stop it.

in the beginning you made it clear why the policy was enacted, so if someone came along asking that the pool be heated in mild weather, Why didn't you just say no? The homeowner might get indignant, but if you repeat why the policy was there, he may just say ok and that's the end of it. He or she may also push the issue, but that doesn't mean a lawsuit will ensue. Or that the board will lose.

Sometimes boards have to make tough decisions, but that should be accompanied by a logical explanation and documentation as needed. Why are you running scared? Set your policy and enforce it - you'll find out soon enough if its effective or needs to be tweaked or dropped.

I'm with Barbara - either keep the pool heated or don't - you don't have to differentiate between residents and guests.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/05/2022 4:35 AM
Now you're sounding like this is one of your hypothetical questions. You'll drive yourself crazy thinking "what if this or that happens" and you really need to stop it.

in the beginning you made it clear why the policy was enacted, so if someone came along asking that the pool be heated in mild weather, Why didn't you just say no? The homeowner might get indignant, but if you repeat why the policy was there, he may just say ok and that's the end of it. He or she may also push the issue, but that doesn't mean a lawsuit will ensue. Or that the board will lose.

Sometimes boards have to make tough decisions, but that should be accompanied by a logical explanation and documentation as needed. Why are you running scared? Set your policy and enforce it - you'll find out soon enough if its effective or needs to be tweaked or dropped.

I'm with Barbara - either keep the pool heated or don't - you don't have to differentiate between residents and guests.

Pay per use.