Can I rent stuff to my HOA?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

I'm on the Board.

I own some PA equipment. It would cost a bit more to purchase than the association would like to pay $500 to own a PA system. I don't mind purchasing it and using it for HOA activities, but would like to get my expense re-couped from the Association. Can I rent the equipment to the association for them to use with HOA events?

The Association could rent from an equipment rental place. The daily charge is $140. I am thinking about charging the same daily fee to the Assocation. I keep track of the number of times that the Association has rented the equipment, and at what point they have paid rental fees equivalent to the purchase price of the system, I donate the system to the HOA.

In other words, rent to own. I'm not wanting to make a profit, but don't

I'm not sure how that would be perceived by other board members. I suppose I can ask, but thought I'd ask here first.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,961

Posted:

I'm not a fan of this because there's a chance you might decide you want more money, and some people might give that a side eye. And why sort of expenses are we talking about anyway? Seems to me it would be easier to just sell the stuff or volunteer to look around for vendors who might offer the equipment at a more affordable price.

Or you could just rent the equipment to them as needed (I can't imagine this would be a monthly thing).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

If you're on the board, I'd say no. You have a conflict of interest, and your bylaws may prohibit compensation of directors and officers. Even if the bylaws are silent on this, it's not a good look.

Even renting from a homeowner can be a problem. I believe in keeping business decisions separate from personal ones, and this can blur the lines.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,452

Posted:

Michael,
I agree with Cathy. The most important thing for board members to do is always avoid conflicts of interest. Weather they are real or perceived.

If a $500.00 expense is more than the board wants to spend it probably should not be purchased. If your HOA is as small as it appears from this post, do you really need a PA for events? If you only have a couple of events annually it may take a few years to pay it off. What happens if you lose your board seat? Seems to me like to many things to consider. At the end of the day this should be considered in a board meeting and voted on by the whole board.

I always say boards should Never consider leasing things or even getting into contracts that are longer than 1 year. The board right before I was elected in Texas signed a 5-year lease on a Camera system. it is terrible and vendor is worse. The vendor's contract does not talk about the typical end of contract. It has no $1.00 buyout or fair market purchase.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

I'd have no problem with you purchasing the PA equipment, with board approval, and getting reimbursed. With a $350 price difference between a day rental and outright ownership, it's clear the board of directors does not want to own a PA system at all.

Your idea is creative but, if $350 makes that big of a difference, then the HOA doesn't have much cash on hand and shouldn't purchase a PA system.

For example, our HOA has leveraged professional connections to secure appliances and furniture at excellent prices. It technically "violates" conflict-of-interest but the HOA benefit from having leaders who could secure better-than-retail market prices and back it up if challenged.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Is this a condominium?

Like CathyA3 and Mark said, and if I were on this board, I would vote against doing business with any director.

What you propose may be legal. But it is far from "best practices" for boards, AFAIC.

You can also check Washington HOA/COA statutes to see what they say about conflicts of interest.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

We're single family homes with around 270 homes and a $250,000 revenue from assessments.

We might use the PA system about 3x per year. National Night Out, Easter Egg Hunt, and maybe a Movie Night. If we rent professionally, we're looking at a minimum of $280 a year in rental fees, so purchasing the system would pay for itself in 5 events. If we add a fifth event, say a video game night in the park, then we're paying for the system in about 1 year.

I think I just need to buck up and tell the Board we should purchase the system rather than renting it from me or elsewhere. I'm willing to host the events, I just don't want to shell out of pocket to pay for the equipment.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 03/27/2022 6:01 PM
I'm willing to host the events, I just don't want to shell out of pocket to pay for the equipment.

I say: One should never pay out of one's own pocket for anything unless one knows in advance that he or she will be reimbursed. I think you will have a lot of support here on the point. Giving your precious time and skills to service on an all-volunteer board is an enormous donation all by itself.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I see no reason why you couldn't come up with a fair price for rental, present it to the Board, have them vote on proposal, with yourself recusing from said vote and have the decision noted in the minutes so it is out in the open.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I think that compensating a board member for out-of-pocket expenses is different from paying a board member when there are no (documented) out-of-pocket expenses. This question deals with the latter - it's like the guy who wanted to charge his HOA for using his Zoom account to hosting board meetings when there would have been no additional charge to him for doing so.

Example 1: board member takes the newsletter to the copy shop for printing and gets a receipt - perfectly OK to reimburse. Example 2: board member offers to rent his personal equipment to the association for a certain price - not OK, no receipt available because the owner incurred no expenses, board member is using his position to make a little money.

The last item - using the board position to make a little money - is a no-no. In addition to conflicts of interest, benefiting financially from your board position because you have inside information is frowned on, and bylaws may address this specifically. It doesn't just look bad, it's considered an ethical violation and is often mentioned in Codes of Conduct for board members.

Board members get criticized enough - no sense giving homeowners legitimate things to complain about. Either obtain competitive bids or forget about it. (And if they do decide to get bids the board member should be completely uninvolved from the entire process since he could underbid the competition, a clear conflict of interest.)

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414

Posted:

Hi,

While it is a possibility, it does raise some red flags. You and the entire board would have to be very transparent about this arrangement. You should also have some sort of contract to document the arrangement if you do decide to go ahead with it.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Thanks all.

Our association has enough money to buy the equipment. I just need to bring this in front of the Board.

The Board has three options:

a) We do without the PA system at all and host social events without the system
b) We rent the equipment which means we pick up and return the equipment to the vendor (1 hr drive time roundtrip)
c) We purchase the equipment and store locally

I'll present at the next meeting and see what we decide as a Board.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 03/28/2022 7:56 AM
Thanks all.

Our association has enough money to buy the equipment. I just need to bring this in front of the Board.

The Board has three options:

a) We do without the PA system at all and host social events without the system
b) We rent the equipment which means we pick up and return the equipment to the vendor (1 hr drive time roundtrip)
c) We purchase the equipment and store locally

I'll present at the next meeting and see what we decide as a Board.

With an HOA your size, chances are good that several people already have equipment that would do the job. Perhaps they are willing to allow it to be used (free of charge) the few times it's needed each year. As another option to add to you list.

I used to transport my own system (speakers, amplifier, wires and cables) to provide sound for HOA movie nights we had a few times each year. Sure it was a bit of a hassle, but I had the equipment and it wasn't an extreme issue for me to provide and operate it.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Maybe the landscaper will mow the lawns for free or maybe the pool guy will clean the pool for free, maybe every other month.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/28/2022 10:32 AM
Maybe the landscaper will mow the lawns for free or maybe the pool guy will clean the pool for free, maybe every other month.

Well stated.

I'm opposed to the HOA trying to borrow stuff from homeowners. For one, if we damage it, we get to replace it and their equipment probably costs a lot more than $500. For two, it's not professional to be borrowing stuff. And then who is in charge of making the request of homeowners? Probably me.

no thank you

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 03/28/2022 10:47 AM

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/28/2022 10:32 AM
Maybe the landscaper will mow the lawns for free or maybe the pool guy will clean the pool for free, maybe every other month.

Well stated.

I'm opposed to the HOA trying to borrow stuff from homeowners. For one, if we damage it, we get to replace it and their equipment probably costs a lot more than $500. For two, it's not professional to be borrowing stuff. And then who is in charge of making the request of homeowners? Probably me.

no thank you

A thousand apologies. You both obviously have it all figured out. Other ideas, suggestions, comments should not be presented or considered. Silly me. Carry on.

Max, you're a tool. Funny to watch you troll this website all day long, lying in wait until someone puts up a post and you toss out a loosely-related, one-line "zinger". You're right . . . borrowing a cheap, portable PA system for 2-3 events a year is precisely equivalent to getting the contracted landscaper to mow lawns for free.

Mike, you said your Board had 3 options. I was only trying to present a possible 4th. But if your HOA has the money, why even put up your original post? Just make a proposal to go buy the equipment and be done with it. Or is it more professional to create some convoluted rent-to-own scenario?

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 03/28/2022 11:43 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 03/28/2022 10:47 AM

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/28/2022 10:32 AM
Maybe the landscaper will mow the lawns for free or maybe the pool guy will clean the pool for free, maybe every other month.

Well stated.

I'm opposed to the HOA trying to borrow stuff from homeowners. For one, if we damage it, we get to replace it and their equipment probably costs a lot more than $500. For two, it's not professional to be borrowing stuff. And then who is in charge of making the request of homeowners? Probably me.

no thank you

A thousand apologies. You both obviously have it all figured out. Other ideas, suggestions, comments should not be presented or considered. Silly me. Carry on.

Max, you're a tool. Funny to watch you troll this website all day long, lying in wait until someone puts up a post and you toss out a loosely-related, one-line "zinger". You're right . . . borrowing a cheap, portable PA system for 2-3 events a year is precisely equivalent to getting the contracted landscaper to mow lawns for free.

Mike, you said your Board had 3 options. I was only trying to present a possible 4th. But if your HOA has the money, why even put up your original post? Just make a proposal to go buy the equipment and be done with it. Or is it more professional to create some convoluted rent-to-own scenario?

ND,

A troll? No, I actually manage property for a living. I am amazed at why people come onto this site, but worse, the responses from old timers. If everyone is in agreement with a rental, what is the big deal. If the association is to buy, where is it stored, how is it inventoried. I solve issues, not fuel conflicts. This is what this site has been become over the years.

But, ND you are free to have your own opinions.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

ND

One of the faithful here states, UNLESS the CCRs gives a board the express authority, it can't:

1. Fund a social event, such as a movie, BUT
2. Can fund multiple raffles to get people to vote, BUT
3. Shouldn't allow some reimbursement for equipment used for a community event.

S$it or get off the pot.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/27/2022 7:10 PM
I see no reason why you couldn't come up with a fair price for rental, present it to the Board, have them vote on proposal, with yourself recusing from said vote and have the decision noted in the minutes so it is out in the open.

I agree with this. There is nothing wrong with contracting with a Member, as long as everything is above board and transparent and competitively equal.

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/28/2022 10:32 AM
Maybe the landscaper will mow the lawns for free or maybe the pool guy will clean the pool for free, maybe every other month.

Agreed. How is this different from contracting (in an open, transparent, and competitive manner) with a lawn company that the Board Member happens to own?

===================
I do agree there is risk and concern for optics from the general population. Something a Board Member may want to shy away from, but if everything is above board, there really isn't a valid concern.

JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259

Posted:

I attended a fiduciary duty webinar this week.

It gave examples that not everything is a conflict of interest if it is fully disclosed.

However there is a value to perception and how owners will perceive things.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Let's keep in mind on when you want the HOA to spend money on what that means. That means that it is EVERY MEMBER's money being used. It is not an individual or "board" money. The board is just in charge of the budget but the money comes from every member.

So when you want the HOA to "rent" your items, how fair and equal is that to every member for their money to contribute? I am not sure everyone would agree to have their HOA money spent on certain uses. This may or may not be one of them. I would maybe ask for a vote to see if this will fly with others.

Former HOA President

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:18 AM
Let's keep in mind on when you want the HOA to spend money on what that means. That means that it is EVERY MEMBER's money being used. It is not an individual or "board" money. The board is just in charge of the budget but the money comes from every member.

So when you want the HOA to "rent" your items, how fair and equal is that to every member for their money to contribute? I am not sure everyone would agree to have their HOA money spent on certain uses. This may or may not be one of them. I would maybe ask for a vote to see if this will fly with others.

sigh.

asking for a vote to spend money on operational expenses? Do they ask for a member vote to decide to mow the lawns? Do you ask for a member vote to buy stamps to mail the annual meeting notice?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yes Adam we do before we assume she things as a regular expense. The money in a HoA is NOT my money to spend. It is Every members money. My job is to respect that and manage it for them.

So to spend money on items not business operational related I should ask opinion. It is kind of rude otherwise and creates mistrust.

Former HOA President

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 8:39 AM
The money in a HoA is NOT my money to spend. It is Every members money. My job is to respect that and manage it for them.

You just described the whole point of a Board of Directors. To manage and make decisions for the HOA, per that authority and restrictions outlined in the governing documents.

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 8:39 AM

So to spend money on items not business operational related I should ask opinion. It is kind of rude otherwise and creates mistrust.

I really don't know what you're on about. The OP was posting about an operational expense.

The whole point of a board and officers is to manage and make operating decisions for the HOA. Not everything requires a vote.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamL1 on 03/29/2022 8:43 AM

... snip ...

The whole point of a board and officers is to manage and make operating decisions for the HOA. Not everything requires a vote.

Yeah, I kinda think everything does. The board may give someone like the PM discretion to spend funds up to a certain amount without getting the board's explicit approval each time, for example, but the initial decision to allow this does require a vote. For another example, regular expenses don't require an explicit vote each time you cut a check, but there is an implicit vote of approval when the board approves the contract/vendor providing the service.

If there truly is something that doesn't require board approval at some point, then you're undermining your ability to hold the board accountable for what happens on their watch. Authority and accountability go hand in hand - an end run around one automatically means an end run around the other.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is PA equipment. Does not make it operational expense. You can rent that stuff from professional companies. Renting it from an individual is a bit too risky. That applies to both ends. That is why would rent from a company with insurance than an individual. No offense to the OP as not in it for a profit. Just wear and tear on ones property can take a toll on both sides. What if it breaks or is damaged? Who eats the costs?

Former HOA President

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 03/29/2022 9:19 AM

Posted By AdamL1 on 03/29/2022 8:43 AM

... snip ...

The whole point of a board and officers is to manage and make operating decisions for the HOA. Not everything requires a vote.

Yeah, I kinda think everything does. The board may give someone like the PM discretion to spend funds up to a certain amount without getting the board's explicit approval each time, for example, but the initial decision to allow this does require a vote. For another example, regular expenses don't require an explicit vote each time you cut a check, but there is an implicit vote of approval when the board approves the contract/vendor providing the service.

If there truly is something that doesn't require board approval at some point, then you're undermining your ability to hold the board accountable for what happens on their watch. Authority and accountability go hand in hand - an end run around one automatically means an end run around the other.

we're not talking about board vote/approval. Melissa is saying that everything needs a member vote of approval. and that is plainly wrong and not even feasible.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 9:29 AM
It is PA equipment. Does not make it operational expense. You can rent that stuff from professional companies. Renting it from an individual is a bit too risky. That applies to both ends. That is why would rent from a company with insurance than an individual. No offense to the OP as not in it for a profit. Just wear and tear on ones property can take a toll on both sides. What if it breaks or is damaged? Who eats the costs?

Now you're just arguing the pros and cons and terms of rental contracts.
Please pick a lane.

Does operational expense need a member vote?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Certain ones do. This is not operational. It helps but not a requirement to operate. Can run just fine without a PA system.

Now if the pool pump breaks then that is operational cost. People buy to have access to a pool. They do not for a PA system.

So yes I would ask for a vote to decide if we needed to rent such equipment. I would do it with the board at the open meeting. We had open meetings so members would see and hear the issue.

Who says which way the vote will go. Just know I am not the only one involved in making it. That equals taking a vote

Former HOA President

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 10:19 AM
Certain ones do. This is not operational. It helps but not a requirement to operate. Can run just fine without a PA system.

Now if the pool pump breaks then that is operational cost. People buy to have access to a pool. They do not for a PA system.

So yes I would ask for a vote to decide if we needed to rent such equipment. I would do it with the board at the open meeting. We had open meetings so members would see and hear the issue.

Who says which way the vote will go. Just know I am not the only one involved in making it. That equals taking a vote

Yes, expense for audio system at large meetings is an operational expense, just like an expense to rent out a conference room or school gymnasium or whatever.

now you're waffling. You previously said the members needed to vote, which is what I am arguing against you about. Now you're saying you've been talking about a board vote the whole time.

No one has said the board vote is not needed. No one has said to keep the vote secret. The board's purpose is to manage the HOA, through vote of the board.

Really, pick a lane and stick with it.

So, please answer this question: Does an operational expense need a membership vote or does the Board have the duty and authority to make this decision?

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 10:19 AM
Certain ones do. This is not operational. It helps but not a requirement to operate. Can run just fine without a PA system.

Now if the pool pump breaks then that is operational cost. People buy to have access to a pool. They do not for a PA system.

So yes I would ask for a vote to decide if we needed to rent such equipment. I would do it with the board at the open meeting. We had open meetings so members would see and hear the issue.

Who says which way the vote will go. Just know I am not the only one involved in making it. That equals taking a vote

I think this is brilliant. The time and cost associated with the vote may very well exceed the cost of the PA system. Now that I'm thinking about it maybe they should vote on if they want to vote?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Not going to address you anymore Adam. Just will say I am arguing or waffling. Not going into a no win argument situation just so you can get someone to agree with you.

Again I do not this is operational expense. If it was, I would not be renting it I would be buying it. Which would be a vote.

Former HOA President

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 11:10 AM
Not going to address you anymore Adam. Just will say I am arguing or waffling. Not going into a no win argument situation just so you can get someone to agree with you.

Again I do not this is operational expense. If it was, I would not be renting it I would be buying it. Which would be a vote.

but you are waffling. You said that all members need to vote on this stuff. then you said that only the board members need to vote (which is what all of us others are saying). And then you can't seem to agree on what expenses are allowed.

And you seem to have quite the unconventional concept of what expenses should be. I guess the HOA needs to actually buy the conference room or auditorium they would usually rent for meetings.

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:18 AM
Let's keep in mind on when you want the HOA to spend money on what that means. That means that it is EVERY MEMBER's money being used. It is not an individual or "board" money. The board is just in charge of the budget but the money comes from every member.

So when you want the HOA to "rent" your items, how fair and equal is that to every member for their money to contribute? I am not sure everyone would agree to have their HOA money spent on certain uses. This may or may not be one of them. I would maybe ask for a vote to see if this will fly with others.

So, perhaps you should just say definitively what your opinion is. Everyone else here has said that the HOA renting this stuff is within normal conduct for the Board and as long as everything is public, open, and fair, there really isn't a concern if the contract goes to a Member, as long as they are aware of how the general population might view it.

What are you actually saying, Melissa? Please, just pick a statement and own it.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Your an a hole. Statement done.

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Let me make myself clearer Adam. You are the type who creates arguments and then tells others to stop arguing. You then tell them what you want them to say to stop it. As noted in your own statements.

I am sure it is a reason you are probably a divorced guy at least once. I do not play that. So I will not be making statements for you.

I will point out my HOA is only responsible for Lawncare per our CC&Rs. So until anyone can convince me that a pa systems is Lawncare related. Not buying it or renting it.

Former HOA President

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

There are better discussions on Facebook. This site has gone straight down hill.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 12:54 PM
Let me make myself clearer Adam. You are the type who creates arguments and then tells others to stop arguing.

?

This is news to me. I will take AdamL1's threads and posts any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the misinformation and false information you post repeatedly, MelissaP1. Even after being told why posts of yours are factually incorrect, you continue to post this misinformation and false information. I feel a rational exchange with a rhinoceros is more likely than a rational exchange with you.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Thank you my a hole statement goes to you too.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 03/29/2022 1:04 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 12:54 PM
Let me make myself clearer Adam. You are the type who creates arguments and then tells others to stop arguing.

?

This is news to me. I will take AdamL1's threads and posts any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the misinformation and false information you post repeatedly, MelissaP1. Even after being told why posts of yours are factually incorrect, you continue to post this misinformation and false information. I feel a rational exchange with a rhinoceros is more likely than a rational exchange with you.

Well said.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes, I'm a piling on because, as I've been concerned about previously, Melisa's statements are taken as fact by new posters who are inexperienced with HOAs. I've found that if we ask her to cite her governing documents or state law, she comes up empty. But I'll try a gain: Melissa please cite from your new HOA's CC&Rs that the HOA Board may only spend homeowners assessments from the operational budget on landscaping. Thank you.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I don't practice law or interpret it. Not my job. I don't mislead people into thinking I am a lawyer. That is your jobs to do apparently.

If you want to prove something again I ask prove to me a P.A. System is an operational expense your HOA is responsible for? Or that the HOA is responsible for providing CC&R's/Articles of Incorporation. Not one has yet quoted a law, a rule, a fact for that... Only seller or the person interesting in purchasing is responsible. Now argue that Jack. And I want it in code and legal form...

What people take for free advice is on them to decide. I don't shove down their throats and tell them my advice is better than anyone else's on here unlike others... Take free advice as you get it. Otherwise I don't quote laws I am not a legal licensed in giving. (I took law classes that may give you a clue on why I don't...).

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 3:14 PM
Or that the HOA is responsible for providing CC&R's/Articles of Incorporation. Not one has yet quoted a law, a rule, a fact for that... Only seller or the person interesting in purchasing is responsible. Now argue that Jack. And I want it in code and legal form...

If I quote at least two states' statutes that do in fact require a HOA to maintain copies of the CC&Rs and Articles and, upon an owner's request, provide the CC&Rs and Articles to the owner, then will you leave the forum, with your post count showing zero?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Nope. Not leaving. I still want quotes where the rules state P.A System is a required operational expense. Plus where is the law or laws that say the HOA is legally required to provide owners the documents? Like if the HOA, lawyers, title company, Realtor, mortgage company, MC, or insurance company is required or face legal actions is at? I left Seller's out as we know some states require it and others don't.

Someone has to talk like a layman and not a lawyer... Consult a lawyer if you want legal advice and translations of the law. Will guarantee you the HATE it when someone quotes the law to them. Plus not knowing how law/courts work. Your just setting yourself up for a lot of unneccessary legal fees. Enjoy!

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:02 PM
Nope. Not leaving.

Why not? Do you have doubts about whether what you posted is true?

What will you give me if I quote at least three states' statute sections that require a HOA to provide the CC&Rs and Articles to an owner who requests inspection of them?

Put up or shut up.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I have shut up. You can't put up. Done! Bye Felicia!

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:12 PM
I have shut up. You can't put up. Done! Bye Felicia!

Come on, Melissa. You post these lies. Someone rebuts you with facts. But then you do not own your mistake. I would be happy to give you what you asked for, but I am not going to do so unless afterwards, you agree to admit you were wrong.

Don't you have it in you to own a mistake? Wouldn't that be the honest thing to do?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

As an owner in a new HOA, surely Melissa, you can read what the HOA is responsible to maintain in your CC&Rs? Does it say trash pick-up? Water for landscaping? A property manager? Surely you don't have to be a lawyer to tell us what your HOA is obliged to pay for out of your dues. Surely you would not have purchased in it without knowing these very basic things.

My CC&Rs don't say that the HOA is responsible for providing 4 custom door mats in our lobbies. But boards have voted on new ones when old ones get shabby. The expense is too small for them to be a reserve item. They're paid for out of our operating budget. Owners do NOT vote on these.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

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Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:02 PM
Nope. Not leaving. I still want quotes where the rules state P.A System is a required operational expense. Plus where is the law or laws that say the HOA is legally required to provide owners the documents? Like if the HOA, lawyers, title company, Realtor, mortgage company, MC, or insurance company is required or face legal actions is at? I left Seller's out as we know some states require it and others don't.

Someone has to talk like a layman and not a lawyer... Consult a lawyer if you want legal advice and translations of the law. Will guarantee you the HATE it when someone quotes the law to them. Plus not knowing how law/courts work. Your just setting yourself up for a lot of unneccessary legal fees. Enjoy!

are you high?

buying/renting/paying for something that is used to run an annual meeting is certainly within the realm of operational expense. Just like the cost of printing the agenda, or renting the conference room....or any other day-to-day, month-to-month operational expense.

And seriously, what are you on about with talking about refusing to produce governing documents?

Melissa, you can see that everyone here has rebuffed your statements left right and center. Please put up or shut up.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

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Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:02 PM
Nope. Not leaving. I still want quotes where the rules state P.A System is a required operational expense. Plus where is the law or laws that say the HOA is legally required to provide owners the documents? Like if the HOA, lawyers, title company, Realtor, mortgage company, MC, or insurance company is required or face legal actions is at? I left Seller's out as we know some states require it and others don't.

Someone has to talk like a layman and not a lawyer... Consult a lawyer if you want legal advice and translations of the law. Will guarantee you the HATE it when someone quotes the law to them. Plus not knowing how law/courts work. Your just setting yourself up for a lot of unneccessary legal fees. Enjoy!

Here's a definition below of operating expenses from https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_expense.asp. Notice the word "equipment" Melissa. Any guesses on what a PA system is? I know critical thinking is not your strong point so I'll give you the answer. A PA system is equipment. What makes you so dangerous to this forum is you are simply incapable of admitting when you are wrong. There should be some type of warning disclaimer added to all your posts.

What Is an Operating Expense?
An operating expense is an expense a business incurs through its normal business operations. Often abbreviated as OPEX, operating expenses include rent, equipment, inventory costs, marketing, payroll, insurance, step costs, and funds allocated for research and development.

BancsS
Posts: 269

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Posted By AugustinD on 03/29/2022 4:30 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2022 4:12 PM
I have shut up. You can't put up. Done! Bye Felicia!

Come on, Melissa. You post these lies. Someone rebuts you with facts. But then you do not own your mistake. I would be happy to give you what you asked for, but I am not going to do so unless afterwards, you agree to admit you were wrong.

Don't you have it in you to own a mistake? Wouldn't that be the honest thing to do?

You are correct. Melissa does not ever admit she may be wrong. Maybe this discussion will help her to realize this and be more careful and thoughtful in her postings. I can't be too critical because I do not very often quote state law or provide quotes from my former HOA documents. That is why my post count is fairly low but certain topics I respond to because I have gained some knowledge and wisdom as an owner that was sued by their HOA.

I do complement the regular posters here on their knowledge and wisdom which is much more than my own. This site helps me to connect with others living in HOAs. It also fills up some of my time and brings me some laughter. Perhaps it does for Melissa as well. I think there are posters here who respond for various reasons.

On the topic, I don't see a problem with renting the PA system as long as it is a transparent transaction. I know some of you board members are concerned about doing things by the book but seriously who will complain about it. Some of these issues are so insignificant but I am used to an HOA that wasn't all that concerned about stuff like that. I can see a slight liability issue if the PA system would happen to get broken. You certainly have mixed opinions...