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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
2021 Year end income statement sent to members in January, by the Board, is different from the "same" income statement the Board is showing now.

The income, total expenses and bottom-line remain the same.

Material changes:

Contractors exp goes from $3,820.00 (1st) to $5,785.93 (now)

Job Supplies exp (which makes no sense as a name, the Board said it is the cost of buying and installing custom street signs which should be capitalized not expensed and certainly not be called "job supplies" in either case) goes from $12,993.47 to $15, 993.47

Reimbursable exp goes from $3,000.00 to nothing.

Uncategorized exp goes from $2,615.93 to $650.00

The Association is clearly not following GAAP, which by law it should be since it is a 501C in Texas, but with its small size I have no problem with that if the financial statements were consistent and made sense - not call a major capital expenditure "job supplies." What is troubling to me is expenses shifting around by material amounts, combined with some ".00" endings - expenses groupings are likely not going to end in "00."

In my opinion, the Association has gone bonkers using attorneys for everything, and as a result, legal expenses have gone from previously nothing to less than $1000 a year typically to ~$7K per year the last few years without any major projects that would explain it. From things I have heard this year, I think they doubled legal expenses from that $7K range and instead of reporting it as such, I suspect they are spreading it around into other expenses. I thought that when the first release was done, and with the material changes noted above in the "same" financial statement being shown now, I am almost convinced that is what is taking place. Even though it is a small POA, I want to request that a CPA Review (a full audit is not warranted in my opinion and a Review would make sure the statements are under GAAP.)

Why most ignore this, or do you think it is suspect?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Typo correction - at the end I meant to write:

Would most ignore this, or do you think it is suspect?
CindyT5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Suspect. I would get enough members to sign a petition to demand a full forensic audit of the books.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Roger

Did the program/software for financials change in any way?
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Roger

Is your COA a TPC 209 HOA or a Chapter 81 or 82 Condominium association?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Is it possible that the January statement you saw was preliminary, and additional checks for 2021 expenses cleared after January 1?

Back during my accounting days, we had a concept called "13th month". Any financial activity for the prior fiscal year that did not clear by the end of that fiscal year went into 13th month. Some years we even had a 14th and 15th month.

It happens. It's normal business practice. It's not a sign of financial mismanagement.

Of course you should pay attention and ask questions if you don't understand something. But usually real financial shenanigans won't be out in the open like this.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
It's not unusual to recode expenses from one GL category to another. And it's not unusual to round up or down to a whole number.

The board does not have to honor your request for an audit. I would suggest asking to see the invoices from the changed categories.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 03/22/2022 7:24 AM
Roger

Is your COA a TPC 209 HOA or a Chapter 81 or 82 Condominium association?


POA. ~45 residential homes. 56 Large lots. 501-C
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/22/2022 7:17 AM
Roger

Did the program/software for financials change in any way?

I do not think so. Presentation is exactly same format.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/22/2022 7:27 AM
Is it possible that the January statement you saw was preliminary, and additional checks for 2021 expenses cleared after January 1?

Back during my accounting days, we had a concept called "13th month". Any financial activity for the prior fiscal year that did not clear by the end of that fiscal year went into 13th month. Some years we even had a 14th and 15th month.

It happens. It's normal business practice. It's not a sign of financial mismanagement.

Of course you should pay attention and ask questions if you don't understand something. But usually real financial shenanigans won't be out in the open like this.

No total amounts exactly the same - only changes are the line item expenses I noted in my first post of this thread. Also, it is cash-basis; no accruals.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 03/22/2022 7:47 AM
It's not unusual to recode expenses from one GL category to another. And it's not unusual to round up or down to a whole number.

The board does not have to honor your request for an audit. I would suggest asking to see the invoices from the changed categories.

I already ask for supporting documents via an email request. My request ignored - no response. A neighbor sent a similar request by certified mail, and the Board would not sign for it, and it eventually was sent back to her after about 6 weeks.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'd go to a meeting and ask them again - you might want to have that neighbor come with you, because it's hard to blow people off in front of witnesses. In fact, have several people attend that meeting - if they ignore you when your hand is raised, someone else could bring it up.

Explain that you want to ensure the numbers are correct - if there's a reason some went up or down, homeowners should be told why. If the first report was preliminary and the final would be issued after it was reviewed for accuracy, homeowners should have been told that.

You may or may not need an audit at this time, so I'd ask to see the invoices, as Barbara suggested. If you two are still stonewalled, you know the next steps - rally your neighbors together and demand answers - or work to push for a recall to sack this board.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/22/2022 7:00 AM

The Association is clearly not following GAAP, which by law it should be since it is a 501C in Texas,
-- First, why is it you think your HOA is in the extremely rare (for HOAs) category of being a IRC 501(c)(4) organization? That your HOA is an IRC 528 organization is much more likely. Do you know what a 501(c)(40 organization is? If not, google on why very very few HOAs are 501(c)'s.

-- Second, the reason your HOA should be following GAAP is because it is a nonprofit corporation.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/22/2022 10:48 AM
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/22/2022 7:00 AM

The Association is clearly not following GAAP, which by law it should be since it is a 501C in Texas,
-- First, why is it you think your HOA is in the extremely rare (for HOAs) category of being a IRC 501(c)(4) organization? That your HOA is an IRC 528 organization is much more likely. Do you know what a 501(c)(40 organization is? If not, google on why very very few HOAs are 501(c)'s.

Because it is what it is. Its incorporation and early minutes state that, its EIN on ProPublica state that its nonprofit tax code designation is 501(c)(4), Org Council states it is 501(c)(4) and a Social WelfareOrganization, I think its tax filings prior to filing 990-Ns stated it was a 501(c)(4) but I haev none handy to review.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Rodger

Can we assume one was a Budget (best guess) and one was the final? There will be differences.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/22/2022 3:20 PM
Rodger

Can we assume one was a Budget (best guess) and one was the final? There will be differences.

No same statements, "income statement" for 2021. Same revenue total and same total expenses, just massaging material numbers between around different expense groupings.
JackG8 (Virginia)
Posts: 26
Posted:
I'm going to assume since you mention GAAP, you're familiar with financial statements. The one question I have, is the difference between the two statements is that one is audited? Maybe some expenses were misclassified. Also, not knowing the size of your HOA, those expense do seem material, but for a large HOA, they're rather minimal. I don't know who audits your HOA's books, whether it's a CPA firm, or members of your Association, (kind of depends on your CC&Rs) but before being accusatory, it may be best to just ask some questions.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackG8 on 04/16/2022 1:43 PM
I'm going to assume since you mention GAAP, you're familiar with financial statements. The one question I have, is the difference between the two statements is that one is audited? Maybe some expenses were misclassified. Also, not knowing the size of your HOA, those expense do seem material, but for a large HOA, they're rather minimal. I don't know who audits your HOA's books, whether it's a CPA firm, or members of your Association, (kind of depends on your CC&Rs) but before being accusatory, it may be best to just ask some questions.

No audit nor CPA prepared financial statements.

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