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DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
I am the lone resident board member for a community that is still under declarant control. We are going to reach our benchmark for taking over the board within the next couple of weeks, so I instructed our property manager to begin the process of planning the election. Nomination forms have been sent out, but we also will hold a "Meet the Candidates" evening, as well as a meeting some time in late May to hold the election itself. Both of these will also require finding a suitable meeting location, because our clubhouse is quite small.

The property manager has assured me they are working on those details with the developer. However, because they assume I am going to be a candidate they refuse not only to accept any input or suggestions from me, but refuse to even share with me information about dates, locations, etc. Instead, they plan to inform me when they inform the rest of the community. In particular, we are supposed to name an Election Inspector. I earlier suggested that a Notary Public be used, but was basically told by our property manager to stay out of it.

For background, last year I asked the developer to not renew the contract with our property manager, after a panel of residents interviewed several others and picked one who we felt would do a superior job. The developer nearly went along, but in the end decided not to change. Since that date the property manager has been quite hostile towards me, and has actively worked to undermine me to the rest of the residents. They have misappropriated funds in the past (out of incompetence, not malice, and they did correct things) but with all of this I simply do not trust them to organize the election fairly or to count the votes fairly.

So, bottom line, given that our developer (the Board President) is silent on the matter, is the property manager free to shut out the resident board member from all matters relating to the election?

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
The date and location are minor issues. Why not let the PM announce the info and then speak up if there is a problem? I have to assume the PM has been through this with other properties and knows how to pick someone to serve as Election Inspector. I would suggest letting this play out and back off.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 8:42 AM
So, bottom line, given that our developer (the Board President) is silent on the matter, is the property manager free to shut out the resident board member from all matters relating to the election?
I think you know the following but just need a bit of validation.

You have asked the manager to abide by the covenants and applicable statutes on various other issues. You ask owners to abide by the covenants and applicable statutes. You are stuck with abiding by the law that says a board majority controls matters like this. You can ask the Board as a whole to vote to do xyz for the upcoming elections, and that's it.

If a board majority mishandles such matters (violating bylaws or state law, say), your remedy is to lawyer up.

I am sorry your manager is an idiot. You're a wonderful, intelligent person. I hope you hang in there and will be the President soon.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/21/2022 9:22 AM
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 8:42 AM
So, bottom line, given that our developer (the Board President) is silent on the matter, is the property manager free to shut out the resident board member from all matters relating to the election?
I think you know the following but just need a bit of validation.

You have asked the manager to abide by the covenants and applicable statutes on various other issues. You ask owners to abide by the covenants and applicable statutes. You are stuck with abiding by the law that says a board majority controls matters like this. You can ask the Board as a whole to vote to do xyz for the upcoming elections, and that's it.

If a board majority mishandles such matters (violating bylaws or state law, say), your remedy is to lawyer up.

I am sorry your manager is an idiot. You're a wonderful, intelligent person. I hope you hang in there and will be the President soon.

Thanks. I am coming to grips with the notion that so long as the developer does not respond to anything (which he does not) the property manager is basically in control of everything. They have been deciding what rules to enforce and which ones to ignore, when and if to impose fines, etc. I can understand that they can then pick the election inspector, but I would think they would have to inform the entire board of their choice, wouldn't they?

I guess I will just have to sit back and hope they don't do anything illegal. It's quite a large contract for them, and I know they desperately don't want me on the board. As you say, all I can manage is my own conduct, so that's what I will have to do.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 9:30 AM
I am coming to grips with the notion that so long as the developer does not respond to anything (which he does not) the property manager is basically in control of everything. They have been deciding what rules to enforce and which ones to ignore, when and if to impose fines, etc. I can understand that they can then pick the election inspector, but I would think they would have to inform the entire board of their choice, wouldn't they?
Do the governing documents say the Declarant all by itself gets to choose the election inspector? If not, then the choice should be put to a board vote. But even then, I am betting the Declarant controls the board, and so you will not be able to get a board majority to see things your way.

Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 9:30 AM

I guess I will just have to sit back and hope they don't do anything illegal. It's quite a large contract for them, and I know they desperately don't want me on the board. As you say, all I can manage is my own conduct, so that's what I will have to do.
Just saying: the above got my attention. I believe some managers do manipulate elections so that the new board has people who will not vote to fire the managers. I am sorry.

Here's to the election being run fairly; your not having to lawyer up; and to you winning a seat on the board.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
David

If proxies are used and assigned to BOD President you can assume you may well not get elected. Welcome to how that game is played.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/21/2022 10:56 AM
David

If proxies are used and assigned to BOD President you can assume you may well not get elected. Welcome to how that game is played.

Can you explain what you mean?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/21/2022 10:56 AM
David

If proxies are used and assigned to BOD President you can assume you may well not get elected. Welcome to how that game is played.


Can you explain what you mean?

In some associations, along with Annual Meeting information, is included a Proxy assigned to the BOD (or in some cases the Pres of the BOD) unless someone else is listed as the Proxy holder. People are asked to return their Proxy. In our case, we could not make Quorum without Proxies.

This means the BOD (or President) has "votes" they control and can assign to ever they want among those running for the BOD. When push comes to shove, in many cases, they can control the election. David if the President of the BOD does not like you, you can assume he is not going to cast any of the votes he controls for you.

I am assuming Proxies are allowed in your association/state.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/21/2022 11:16 AM
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 11:06 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/21/2022 10:56 AM
David

If proxies are used and assigned to BOD President you can assume you may well not get elected. Welcome to how that game is played.


Can you explain what you mean?


In some associations, along with Annual Meeting information, is included a Proxy assigned to the BOD (or in some cases the Pres of the BOD) unless someone else is listed as the Proxy holder. People are asked to return their Proxy. In our case, we could not make Quorum without Proxies.

This means the BOD (or President) has "votes" they control and can assign to ever they want among those running for the BOD. When push comes to shove, in many cases, they can control the election. David if the President of the BOD does not like you, you can assume he is not going to cast any of the votes he controls for you.

I am assuming Proxies are allowed in your association/state.

Interesting. I will check into that. However, the Board President (the developer) has no problem with me. It is our property management company with whom I have a bad relationship. The developer has basically "checked out" when it comes to HOA business, which is why the property manager is now pretty much doing whatever it pleases. Which means they are running the election.

I do know the last election - when we were given our one token board representative - the board president did not vote; only residents did.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Well, the PM may be unnecessarily defensive. But on the other hand, you can assume that they've been through this many times (whereas a you may not have) and that someone who is planning to run for election has a vested interest in things being done in ways that favor them (such as finding out certain details ahead of the competition). In my community, any current board member who plans to seek re-election keeps their hands off the prior to the annual meeting.

In addition, PM's take instructions from the board, not from individual board members. In this case, the developer is still in control, so if the PM were to take instructions from a single individual, it would be the developer.

So I think the substance of the non-response was actually appropriate.

As far as counting votes goes, at an in-person annual meeting, it's normal to appoint a couple homeowners as "election inspectors" - basically nobody with a conflict of interest gets to verify the results. Any fiddling would have to be done in full view of everyone.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
While under declarant control, without the approval of the declarant and with the inclusion of homeowners who are not on the board or have otherwise been appointed to do so by the declarant, you interviewed other management companies? I’m surprised other companies agreed to meet with you since you had no authority to contract with them. I am not surprised that your manager isn’t brimming with affection for you after you tried to get them fired.

Anyway, you’re going to get your way in a few weeks when you transition so why raise a stink now? Will anything change if you know the election date before the rest of the community?
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 03/21/2022 3:32 PM
While under declarant control, without the approval of the declarant and with the inclusion of homeowners who are not on the board or have otherwise been appointed to do so by the declarant, you interviewed other management companies? I’m surprised other companies agreed to meet with you since you had no authority to contract with them. I am not surprised that your manager isn’t brimming with affection for you after you tried to get them fired.

Anyway, you’re going to get your way in a few weeks when you transition so why raise a stink now? Will anything change if you know the election date before the rest of the community?

I, along with fifteen residents who are active members of committees, approached some competing property management companies and explained that the developer was disengaged, but that if we could submit a proposal for a company that would do a better job at a lower price he might go for the change. They all enthusiastically provided proposals, knowing that even if it didn't work this time they had positioned themselves for when we took over the board. I am not one to just sit quietly and do nothing when someone is doing a very bad job at a very high fee.

My concern is that we will not be "getting our way in a few weeks" as you say, if the property management company does not run a clean and fair election. Thanks to this site I was able to find a clear set of guidelines for elections provided by our state attorney general. The property manager already told me they felt no obligation to follow those guidelines, particularly with regards to the handling of ballots and the counting of votes. Given that they believe themselves to have a significant financial interest in the outcome of the election, I feel I am justified in wanting to be privy to how they intend to manage the election.

I completely understand that I only have one vote in any action. But I do feel there is some issue with no vote being held. And I feel there is an issue with the property manager only communicating the board president, instead of the entire board.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 03/21/2022 4:20 PM
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 03/21/2022 3:32 PM
While under declarant control, without the approval of the declarant and with the inclusion of homeowners who are not on the board or have otherwise been appointed to do so by the declarant, you interviewed other management companies? I’m surprised other companies agreed to meet with you since you had no authority to contract with them. I am not surprised that your manager isn’t brimming with affection for you after you tried to get them fired.

Anyway, you’re going to get your way in a few weeks when you transition so why raise a stink now? Will anything change if you know the election date before the rest of the community?


I, along with fifteen residents who are active members of committees, approached some competing property management companies and explained that the developer was disengaged, but that if we could submit a proposal for a company that would do a better job at a lower price he might go for the change. They all enthusiastically provided proposals, knowing that even if it didn't work this time they had positioned themselves for when we took over the board. I am not one to just sit quietly and do nothing when someone is doing a very bad job at a very high fee.

My concern is that we will not be "getting our way in a few weeks" as you say, if the property management company does not run a clean and fair election. Thanks to this site I was able to find a clear set of guidelines for elections provided by our state attorney general. The property manager already told me they felt no obligation to follow those guidelines, particularly with regards to the handling of ballots and the counting of votes. Given that they believe themselves to have a significant financial interest in the outcome of the election, I feel I am justified in wanting to be privy to how they intend to manage the election.

I completely understand that I only have one vote in any action. But I do feel there is some issue with no vote being held. And I feel there is an issue with the property manager only communicating the board president, instead of the entire board.


When you are board president, will you want individual board members to go out and solicit bids without your approval because they think they can find someone to do a better job and aren’t ones to sit quietly? Do you intend to continue acting independently of the rest of the board even when it is a full homeowner board? You may indeed have a terrible manager, but personally I can’t agree with the principle that individual members should solicit bids for the community without board approval outside of say… thwarting criminal behavior.

But of course it doesn’t matter what I think.

If you had that many people involved in wanting the manager fired, it seems unlikely that there is any scenario in which they won’t be fired regardless of who wins the election. Once you know who the other candidates are you might try talking to them and get everyone on the same page as to what the process should look like.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're getting some good advice here, David. Do learn who and how inspectors of election are appointed in your state. this also should be in your Bylaws.

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