clarification of records request

Really? You do know how much that is going to cost. Are you then going to investigate why they are spending money sending out copies of records?

If you want your HOA to move on, you got to move on. Otherwise your doom to repeat the past if you non-stop keep bringing it up.

LaskaS,

FWIW, really good job.

I think the records you requested appear to be within the scope of 82.114 and BO 22.351.

My changes below are minor.


Dear Directors,

Pursuant to Section 82.114 of the Texas Uniform Condominium Act and Section 22.351 of the Texas Nonprofit Corporation Act, please provide a date and time when I may inspect the following association records:

1. Copy of annual meeting notice for the years 2019-2022 sent via USPS to all owners, to include a copy of the blank proxy
2. copy of adjourned annual meeting notice for years 2019-2022 sent vis USPS to all owners, to include a copy of the blank proxy
3. The name and mailing address of each unit owner
4. Proxies submitted for the annual elections for years 2019-2022, inclusive.
5. election results for the years 2019-2022, inclusive.
6. ballots cast with information identifying the owner (if any)redacted

The purpose of my request is to understand the election process and history of our association.

name
address
email addie
phone number

As I think you know, send the request certified mail, return receipt requested. Starting from the day the HOA receives your request, this starts a statutory ten day clock.

I trust you are keeping in mind what Texas law permits if and when the Board denies you these records.

For the interested reader: The Texas Condo statute lets an owner take the COA to Justice of the Peace court (small claims court) for injunctive relief if the COA does not cooperate.

What Texas statutes apply? When you find the two applicable statutes on the net, do a keyword search of each statute for "proxies" and then "records," and see what the statute says.

Augustine.

yes!! i found that information recently. I originally thought the right to take the association to jp court was only in 209. But I found this info last night.

In the texas civil deskbook third edition;

Chapter 13: Compelling the Production of Records of a Property
Owner’s Association
A. What is a Proceeding to Compel Production of Property Association
Records?
A property owners’ association (including a condominium owners’ association as defined
by Property Code § 82.003(3)) must make the records of the association available to an
owner. A member of a property owners’ association who is denied access to those records
may file a petition with a justice of the peace requesting an order to release the records
and for other relief. Property Code §§ 82.1411; 209.005(d) and (n)

I have a quick question. I'm requesting these records from the management company that keeps all of our fianncial records and books. If an owner doesn't know what they are doing, they may put up artificial roadblocks to accessing information. That's why I wanted you to check my letter.

If I request in email. and I get a confirmation that the request was received and i would hear back within 5 to 10 days. Have the courts begun to accept communications via email if they include all relevant parties and information that would be sent in certified snail mail?

I presume you instructed me to send via certified email because that is was is required in the code. However, previous requests, when submitted correctly to the right person and referencing the correct statutes have been responded to.

I'm just curious. It certainly would speed up the process if email communication could be used. Once the management company responds that the received the request and will contact me within 5 to 10 days. That sure seems verifiable notice.

Yes ma'am.

The board has no duty to educate owners about the law. I would say a board even takes risks attempting to educate owners about the law.

The board takes a position. The position is hopefully lawful. It's up to owners to respond to what the board did.

No problem. You draft 'em. I believe the hoatalk forum will be happy to edit for the maximum bang for the buck. It's an excellent use of the forum, AFAIC.

Good communications, steeped in the covenants and statutes, are everything.

If you can get the manager to acknowledge receipt by email, and you save the email on your server, I understand this should be fine. If the matter went to JP court, then I expect the board and manager would admit that the email was sent by the manager, because you wisely saved a copy on your email server.

Printouts of emails do not count.

Come on. The statute does not require it. It is my recommendation. Why? Because proof of xyz happening is everything.

I know the cost of certified mail, return receipt requested is not cheap. Do the email request first. If you get an acknowledgment, great.

Maybe add at the end of your emailed letter a request to acknowledge receipt? It's up to you. If the manager/board has been acknowledging receipt all along, then I see no need to get uppity on the point.

augustine, i must have miscommunicated my question. I wasn't getting uppity at all.

I was just asking for clarification as to the reason to make sure and send in certified mail. I know that certified mail is required for records requests in the statute. However I don't know if there is a requirement for certified mail to proceed with the civil process if i have the save confirmed email and the response from the records request person at the company.

Miscommunication by me. You were not uppity. I was suggesting that an owner who jumped the gun and, in the first request, also requested an acknowledgment might be viewed as a bit uppity, especially if the board/manager has been good about acknowledging receipt without the sender even requesting acknowledgment. After all, acknowledging receipt is good etiquette.

Your letter was very good. To the point. Supported by the law/covenants. Double checked for consistency with what the law actually says. Short. Polite. My changes were pretty much cosmetic.

I just received an email notice that the records I requested are available at the offsite office of the managing agent.(not property manager).. the managing agent is the company that does all of our accounting and record keeping. (when records are provided to them).

I replied with a request to confirm all of the itemized items are available for review. They responded that I will be viewing the copies on a computer screen.

My question is. If they have them in digital form, why not just send them to me. I have a right to view and copy them.

second question. If there is anything not clear in the digital copies of the proxies etc. do I have a right to request originals? If they still exist.

I know that texas has passed several records retention changes over the years. I understand the purpose and efficiency of digitally scanning the proxies etc. But does scanning allow the association to discard of the originals??

thank you

I think AdamL1's response nails it.

I mean, for items that are were originally in digital format,,

i.e. the notice sent to by USPS to all owners to announce the election. a copy of the blank proxy. those would be fine in digital format.

But the filled out proxies, I want to see the originals as submitted to either the company or at the election. I know i turned in hard copies.

The reason I want to see this is because the hard copies will allow me to view several side by side to see if there is any indication of tampering or forgery.

on a computer screen i can only view one screen at a time. I want to make darn sure that if I find any irregularities I have airtight evidence. kwim.

I mean, for items that are were originally in digital format,,

i.e. the notice sent to by USPS to all owners to announce the election. a copy of the blank proxy. those would be fine in digital format.

But the filled out proxies, I want to see the originals as submitted to either the company or at the election. I know i turned in hard copies.

The reason I want to see this is because the hard copies will allow me to view several side by side to see if there is any indication of tampering or forgery.

on a computer screen i can only view one screen at a time. I want to make darn sure that if I find any irregularities I have airtight evidence. kwim.

thanks augustine. those are all valid points.. Ok so i guess i'm going to take my camera and take a picture of each screen. and or. i might take a thumb drive with me and see if i can copy them onto the thumb drive.

the good news is they can't charge me anything. the new law went into effect last year. And our associations hasn't made the required adoptions and policy recording. Based on this, I think i can ask for copies also and I don't think they can charge me? augustine. do you agree?

82.1141(h) An association board must adopt a records production and copying policy that prescribes the costs the association will charge for the compilation, production, and reproduction of information requested under this section. The prescribed charges may include all reasonable costs of materials, labor, and overhead but may not exceed costs that would be applicable for an item under 1 T.A.C. Section 70.3 for an item produced by the association and may not exceed actual costs for an item produced by a third party. The policy required by this subsection must be recorded as a dedicatory instrument in accordance with Section 202.006. An association may not charge a unit owner for the compilation, production, or reproduction of information requested under this section unless the policy prescribing those costs has been recorded as required by this subsection. A unit owner is responsible for costs related to the compilation, production, and reproduction of the requested information in the amounts prescribed by the policy adopted under this subsection. The association may require advance payment of the estimated costs of compilation, production, and reproduction of the requested information. If the estimated costs are lesser or greater than the actual costs, the association shall submit a final invoice to the unit owner on or before the 30th business day after the date the information is delivered. If the final invoice includes additional amounts due from the unit owner, the additional amounts, if not reimbursed to the association before the 30th business day after the date the invoice is sent to the unit owner, may be added to the unit owner's account as an assessment. If the estimated costs exceeded the final invoice amount, the unit owner is entitled to a refund, and the refund shall be issued to the unit owner not later than the 30th business day after the date the invoice is sent to the unit owner.

Laska

I have not deliberately commented on this thread to date but I feel it is time I should:

Your stated purpose is "is to understand the election process and history of our association."

The requests you have made will not provide insight into the election process, you are narrowly focused on seeking proof of possible tampering with proxies. While that may be a reasonable concern, what does that focus have to do with the broad based records requests you have made for records dating back to 2019.

I must ask, do you understand the records filing and retention process utilized by your association and do you understand what background work must take place to provide access to the records listed in your request.

My estimate is it will take someone at least 3 hours to extract the records you requested from Association files and create a new file for your viewing.

Association records are typically arrayed under the name of the association, then by subject matter, and then possibly by year or possibly by owner name, or project name, or something similar. We would charge our client between $85.00 and $100.00 per hour to array the records listed in your request for viewing, and the same rate while you are using the terminal to which you have been granted access. We have filed for our clients the recent changes enacted by the Legislature last May and would bill the requesting owner as allowed in the documents--however the amount allowed to be billed is perhaps 15-20% of the actual costs. The balance is billed to the association.

Whomever is custodian of the records of your association cannot simply grant you carte blanche access to the records of the Association as there are many in the file tree you have not requested to view.

If you wish to understand the election process, why do you not request to sit down with someone knowledgeable and ask them to diagram the process for you? Can you explain how your records request will provide insight into the history of the Association?

Let us say you find evidence of or suspicion of proxy tampering. Then what? Would it not be more useful to ask that a proxy process be designed and implemented which would virtually preclude tampering without going through the records request process?

I promise you,, I am not just seeking to find evidence of tampering.

That's not it at all.. I actually hope i don't find any outright tampering, what i'm trying to find out is where did all these absentee proxie's come from and who were they assigned to.

also. I want to know how many proxies were left blank and thus the managing agent became proxy holder.

Last thing, I'm not going to bring it up or anything. but i'm almost positive they held this election wrong.. Every other time we've had elections and proxies were turned in. Proxies were exchanged for ballots. this didn't occur this time. I handed over my proxies and they logged them in and then used the proxies as ballots.. I'm almost positive that isn't proper. but it wouldn't have changed the outcome. I'm just wondering why they suddenly change the way they handled proxies.

any thoughts?

augustine, I honestly don't feel i'm being a sore loser. I certainly don't think i'm going to discover anything that will overturn the election. I lost. it is what it is. I would like to get a clear idea of which absentee owners submitted proxies. and did they submit them directly via USPS mail or fax to the managing agent's office or were they "signed" and given to a proxy holder.

If i discover any proxies that were "signed" and given to a proxy holder. and the owner doesn't even live in texas. This will raise some red flags.

While no HOA is required to break down individual Board votes (how each Board member voted) they are required to mail out financials, changes to by-laws, and/or minutes of each Board meeting. Those, homeowners should have received, by mail, or email, whether they attend the meetings, or not.