sort of hypothetical question

Started by ArtB1 • 21 replies • 431 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ArtB1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Our covenants are very clear:

Trash containers must be stored in the garage until and except on the day of trash pickup. Containers shall not be left outside overnight

There is a resident requesting an exception based on some medical excuse. He wants to store in his back yard.

Now the HOA has refused this request previously but have never had it based on some medical reason.

What would you do?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Still deny it or ammend the rules for all. I like to call this situation " I can not do it because have a bone in my leg" excuse. We all have a bone in our leg. You just want to make your leg an excuse to not have to do something.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Do you have an HOA attorney?

Ours told us that if we ever got a hint that Fair Housing issues could come into play that we should loop him in. He handled verification of the homeowner's claim of a disability and, if it was true, made a recommendation as to what sort of accommodation would be appropriate. In addition to being a neutral third party, his name on the correspondence with the homeowner discouraged the ones who were trying to pull a fast one.

So that's my recommendation.

Keep in mind that Fair Housing laws require the HOA to grant *an* accommodation that meets the disabled person's needs. The laws do not require the HOA to grant the *preferred" accommodation.

I'm trying to think of a reason that someone who would have a problem dealing with the garage would not have a problem with the back yard, and am coming up blank. So if I were on your board, I would absolutely want a neutral opinion since my instinct is to say "no" and this could be an expensive mistake.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

My opinion is out of viewing from the common area. So behind a fence in the back yard so not be an issue. Not rocket science folks.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

He'd still have to give me a plausible reason and I'm not sure a medical exemption is it. Assuming the garage door faces the street, I imagine you open the garage door and wheel the trash cart to the street. I don't see anything hard about that.

There are trash carts that are designed for older people who may have trouble wheeling upright carts they may take up a little more room in the garage, but for a two car garage if may be a matter of reorganizing some things and getting rid of the junk. If you have a one car garage like me, that's not so easy because space is already limited, so I'd understand the exemption there.

Does this person have family living with him? if so, why can't one of them haul out the cart on trash day if this person can't? If smell is a factor, why not secure the bags h truly or put some garbage can deodorant powder in the bottom of the can (I bought some at the hardware store)? Or throw some cleaning fluid in the can and then rinse it out?
He'd have to explain to mention of that works or least have the doctor come up with some compelling reason.

I understand and agree young age to be aware of the fair housing and Americans with disabilities act, but sometimes I find people try to take advantage because no one wants to be sued. Occasionally, You have to call people out on their BS.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/17/2022 2:23 PM
He'd still have to give me a plausible reason and I'm not sure a medical exemption is it. Assuming the garage door faces the street, I imagine you open the garage door and wheel the trash cart to the street. I don't see anything hard about that.

There are trash carts that are designed for older people who may have trouble wheeling upright carts they may take up a little more room in the garage, but for a two car garage if may be a matter of reorganizing some things and getting rid of the junk. If you have a one car garage like me, that's not so easy because space is already limited, so I'd understand the exemption there.

Does this person have family living with him? if so, why can't one of them haul out the cart on trash day if this person can't? If smell is a factor, why not secure the bags h truly or put some garbage can deodorant powder in the bottom of the can (I bought some at the hardware store)? Or throw some cleaning fluid in the can and then rinse it out?
He'd have to explain to mention of that works or least have the doctor come up with some compelling reason.

I understand and agree young age to be aware of the fair housing and Americans with disabilities act, but sometimes I find people try to take advantage because no one wants to be sued. Occasionally, You have to call people out on their BS.

I agree. It would be interesting to see how it is easier to go to your backyard and wheel the trash bin out versus from the garage. If it was me I would find out exactly what the reason is.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtB1 on 03/17/2022 1:06 PM
Our covenants are very clear:

Trash containers must be stored in the garage until and except on the day of trash pickup. Containers shall not be left outside overnight

There is a resident requesting an exception based on some medical excuse. He wants to store in his back yard.

Now the HOA has refused this request previously but have never had it based on some medical reason.

What would you do?

Where is the garage in relation to the house? Is it an attached garage? unattached? front, rear, or side facing? Does it face an alley? There are some homes in my community with a garage facing an alley. Are the trash cans picked up in front of the house? I can imagine some scenarios where putting the trash can in the rear yard may be easier than storing it in the garage.

I wouldn't make an issue of it since it's in the backyard.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I have three refuse containers, one for trash, one for lawn, one for recycle. I wouldn't want the trash or lawn clippings in the garage in the summer when the temperture is 110 degrees outdoors.

Just saying.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

On the other hand, many communities prohibit keeping trash cans outside because they attract varmints. Recycling not so much, but trash definitely does. Keeping the trash in a lidded container can keep most critters out, but some are pretty creative at getting into stuff and scattering it around.

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 03/18/2022 5:19 AM
On the other hand, many communities prohibit keeping trash cans outside because they attract varmints. Recycling not so much, but trash definitely does. Keeping the trash in a lidded container can keep most critters out, but some are pretty creative at getting into stuff and scattering it around.

Both goods points Cathy and Max.

Just a scenario that recently occurred in my sister's community. She lives in a suburb of a major metropolitan city. Her neighborhood is an older community with most homes ranging from 900 to 1200 square feet with either no garage or one car garages. Most of her neighbors store their trash cans in the front yard off to the side of the driveway. Her community recently began fining people for keeping their trash cans in the front yard. She was fined so she squeezed her cans into the garage. She is a disabled person due to a car accident and her mobility is diminished. So maneuvering around her garage and vehicle make it difficult to get her trash out to the curb on trash day. She recently came across the neighborhood newsletter with an article that revoked the trash can policy. She was so grateful. This is real life folks. Take it for what it's worth.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Our community rules also state trash cans are opposed to be in the garage until trash day, but as I said earlier, the garages in our community are one car garages and so there's not a lot of room anyway. The city's trash carts are a lot bigger than the trash cans people were using, so the rules isn't being enforced.

For the most part, people keep them next to the garage and bring them to the curb. It doesn't look bad - until people overstuff the things (at least they wait until trash day!) For some reason, there's a person down the street from me who insists on keeping the thing at the curb, so it sticks out like a sore thumb because everyone else has them next to the garage (and this person has a one-car garage). Don't know if the board has seen it, although all of them live close by and have to notice it when they go to the clubhouse for the meeting. Hm, maybe he or she has cooked up some sort of excuse they're going with. Or they don't want to tick off the owner, who owns several homes in the community (kowtowing to the investor-owners?)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Our docs say trash cans cannot be seen from the street in front of the house. This meant in the garage or behind the house. We added that a privacy screen, same design and material as our backyard fences, can be built on the side of the house as a place to store trash cans.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Our rules are that trash and recycling and yard waste containers cannot be visible from the street unless they are out on day of collection. So you can put them on the side behind bushes but they just can't be visible. And we do send out violations for this but it usually is taken care of after a friendly reminder. I had a resident send me a nasty email because she feels we need to hire someone to patrol for this issue.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/18/2022 6:00 AM
Our community rules also state trash cans are opposed to be in the garage until trash day, but as I said earlier, the garages in our community are one car garages and so there's not a lot of room anyway. The city's trash carts are a lot bigger than the trash cans people were using, so the rules isn't being enforced.

For the most part, people keep them next to the garage and bring them to the curb. It doesn't look bad - until people overstuff the things (at least they wait until trash day!) For some reason, there's a person down the street from me who insists on keeping the thing at the curb, so it sticks out like a sore thumb because everyone else has them next to the garage (and this person has a one-car garage). Don't know if the board has seen it, although all of them live close by and have to notice it when they go to the clubhouse for the meeting. Hm, maybe he or she has cooked up some sort of excuse they're going with. Or they don't want to tick off the owner, who owns several homes in the community (kowtowing to the investor-owners?)

That's sound hypocritical to your first response telling one to call out another's BS.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Says you. If you're referring to my neighbor who keeps the trash cart on the curb (where someone can run into it and spill trash all over the street), can YOU come up with a practical reason to put it there? This person has a garage where it can go and it only takes a few minutes to roll the thing to the street and roll it back (and if the tenant doesn't want to do it, there are teens living there who could do it as part of their chores).

In this case, the homeowner asked to keep the cart in the backyard and was told no, and is now coming up with a medical exemption rationale. I'm not saying one can't exist, but we don't know what it is. Considering trash carts are supposed to be covered and the stuff in it bagged or broken down (if it's cardboard), what, pray, can you think of that would make it medically necessary to keep the cart in the backyard as opposed to the garage?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Hi Art,

Hear the person's reasoning for the accommodation then apply common sense and being a good neighborhood in equal weight. Sniff out the "hustle" if one exists. The person is asking the HOA about this and not subverting the rule.

ArtB1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Thanks for all the comments.

trash cans in the back would be visible to neighbors to the side and back.

Trash outside will be too tempting for critters

we will not be amending the rules as keeping the trash inside keeps the the neighborhood clean and looking good

I agree that trash in the back will be more difficult to move to the front drive (over the grass) and we use wheeled totes (trash, paper and plastics / cans).

The garage does face the street so its a short 2 car length wheel from the garage to the curb

We all have 2 or 3 car garages

Plus the owner signed the covenants when he moved to the neighborhood (at least 2nd time living here)

I think the board is denying the request

Will keep this group in the loop if it goes anywhere.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Art

With 2 and 3 car garages, I coul go along with trash cans stored inside.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

If it is a legitimate medical claim then you have no choice but to allow a reasonable accommodation, if one can be found. Of course, the individual circumstances will determine what might be reasonable, but you cannot simply say, "that's the rule and there are no exceptions."

If keeping the containers in the back yard makes this person's life easier (due to a medical condition) then why would you not. If someone thinks the containers are unsightly in the back yard you could require that they be placed behind a fence or otherwise be concealed.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 03/17/2022 3:35 PM
I have three refuse containers, one for trash, one for lawn, one for recycle. I wouldn't want the trash or lawn clippings in the garage in the summer when the temperture is 110 degrees outdoors.

Just saying.

Exactly!! Besides, I don't have the real estate inside my garage for two 96 gallon trash bins. Even the 55 Gallon bins are too portly, goes beyond the garage door opening.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Since our trash hauler went to one day a week pickups and provide their specific containers for the driver only pickup, Nevada went to a convoluted compromise.

Nevada law was changed to allow trash cans to be stored on the side of the garage, and the HOA's have the right to deny said placement if the ground on the side of the garage
is not even. The catch 22 is all of the homes in our community have crushed gravel and it slopes. Technically HOA's can deny the placement for that reason.

I would highly recommend this compromise that would make everyone happy. The Big Box home improvement stores sell a pony wall height storage shed that are designed to hold two
trash cans side by side. They come in colors tan with brown, so it is a slam dunk for me. I suppose they can be painted to match the color exterior of any home.
These sheds have a tilt up hatch and two outward opening barn doors. I am planning on getting one before summer.

I feel this is one of those nit picky things that HOA's need to evolve with the 21st century.

CindyT5 (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

My gosh, some of the board members on here have a real power problem. These are your neighbors. The can will be in the backyard. Perhaps the person needs it there to make it simpler to empty the trash on the inside of the home, rather than having to walk further. Good grief, no wonder homeowners hate you.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here