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TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
We have an owner that just moved in that wants to install new hardwood flooring.
They have provided proper insurances & details - It's all very detailed and fulfills ever requirement.
Our rules say that they need a specefic underlayment for various reasons:

"All hardwood, engineered hardwood, or laminate floors must have a proper underlayment of 1/4” cork and additional material to bring IIC rating up to 70.
All contractors must present their liability insurance to the Board."

I'm the president and I'm having a hard time "approving" this because I don't believe I have the ability to approve anything on my own.
Do we need to schedule a board meeting just for this? Or is this automatically approved since it's already compliant?
Also, none of the board members are experts on flooring or construction, so who am I to even "approve" something like this?

I just don't want to overstep, especially since other board members are very touchy about these kinds of things.
I also don't want to include every board member because it just bogs down the owner from conitnuing his work and adds unneaded complexity to this process - especially since most board members don't speak proper english and constantly misunderstand basic things.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is a board decision you can sign off on once approved. If it matches the criteria then do not need to be an expert. However, I would caution about hardwoods on 2 nd stories. Usually a bad idea.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
This is usually a board decision unless you have an Architectural Control Committee - and I believe these committees are more prevalent in HOAs. Condo owners have limited ability to make changes, but flooring is a big one (ask anyone who has lived in a lower level condo).

So if your CC&Rs have specific requirements in them and/or your state has regulated this, ask the homeowner to provide evidence that they're complying with them. The homeowner should be able to provide paperwork on the flooring materials that have the necessary information (they can ask the flooring company and/or installer for this). Some states such as California (I think) require condo owners to also have tests done verifying that their flooring meets requirements, although that may be overkill if your state doesn't require this.

If you're on the board and don't understand this stuff, there is plenty of info on the web. Or you can visit a flooring store and get educated. If you have a property manager, that person may have more information. But ultimately it's the board's responsibility to know what they're doing. On the job training, dontcha know...?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Can't argue with what's already been said here, so get the information you need, and then get together with your board colleagues and make a decision.

PS - you can't make a decision by yourself on ANY association matter. You're the president, not GOD, which is why you have other board members who can probably outvote you if necessary. . This person may want to install hardwood floors, but I doubt there's a major timeline on this (the floor's not going anywhere). Better to take your time and make a decision that's been properly vetted than pull something out of your behind.....

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Follow the instructions laid out in your CCRs under Architectural Control.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Looks like good replies--yes the Board needs to decide at a meeting to approve this. Boards govern HOAs, not presidents.

Again, Melissa is off base and her reply is, once again , not based on any actual experience unless it was decades ago.

Our multi-story 22 y.o. 200+ unit condo building originally had hardwood floors in the living areas of all units. Over the years, some owners have put in additional hardwood OR other hard surfaces. Lately, no one is installing hardwood, but luxe vinyl instead. We have strict requirements with the underlayment being key and it's crucial there'a space between the flooring material and the wall. We have an ARC that's required by our CC&Rs.

I was on the Board for 14 years and we had two complaints from residents about noise above. In 16 years, I've had no noise one my unit though the one above is now completely marble. There is no law in CA that applies to HOAs about hard surface flooring unless it's brand new legislation..
TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Thank you everybody. You know, people sure like to treat me like God because no other board members care to get involved unless it's a special assessment.
I think this is a reality for many people here from what I've read... uninterested unit owners until it's time to complain. Some board members haven't even read the CC&R's and think the president can do whatever they want. It's pretty funny & sad at the same time.

Regardless, our association management company claims we don't need a board meeting for this.
I just don't think anyone on the board would care enough to have a meeting about this + they would have a lot of trouble understanding what it even means. I'm talking fresh European immigrants with bad english.
I guess I'll just have to pull the meeting though.

I'll check the CC&R's about architectural control.

Thanks.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TonyN2 on 03/17/2022 3:17 PM
Thank you everybody. You know, people sure like to treat me like God because no other board members care to get involved unless it's a special assessment.
I think this is a reality for many people here from what I've read... uninterested unit owners until it's time to complain. Some board members haven't even read the CC&R's and think the president can do whatever they want. It's pretty funny & sad at the same time.

Regardless, our association management company claims we don't need a board meeting for this.
I just don't think anyone on the board would care enough to have a meeting about this + they would have a lot of trouble understanding what it even means. I'm talking fresh European immigrants with bad english.
I guess I'll just have to pull the meeting though.

I'll check the CC&R's about architectural control.

Thanks.

I hear you but always do it by the book so that nothing comes back later that bites you in the ass. Learn those governing documents frontwards and backwards and follow them even when you don't like it. Good luck!
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Is this an upper level condo unit where the lower level may face noise problems?

If so, doing this by the book and then some is incredibly important.

Keep in mind how you would feel if some clown put in flooring above your condo unit and actually did not meet the requirements of the covenants.

Noisy upper level floors in condo units is a major source of litigation that often goes as far as appeals courts.

If this is an upper level condo unit and there's any chance the Board can lawfully reject a hard surface floor, do so.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TonyN2 on 03/17/2022 11:02 AM
We have an owner that just moved in that wants to install new hardwood flooring.
They have provided proper insurances & details - It's all very detailed and fulfills ever requirement.
Isn't it so that one cannot tell whether the proposed new flooring meets the IIC requirement until testing is done after the floor is installed?

See https://knowledgebank.materialbank.com/terms/iic-rating/

I advise the COA hire a well-qualified contractor to do the testing and require the owner who wants the flooring to pay the bill.

Your board must take this situation seriously. Signing off on an ARC application that a sucking-up pleasant owner who wants something from you has submitted is so dangerous. Some of these owners will lie and lie more, all with such pleasantness that you won't know what hit you until the downstairs neighbor has her attorney send the COA a demand letter for failing to do the testing.

In my opinion, a Board's duty is to make the installation of hard surface flooring incredibly difficult for upstairs neighbors, all while complying with the Board's obligations to the covenants.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
In my experience, it's those freakin' new owners of upper level units who just love to rip out their carpet, thinking what an improvement this will be, and completely oblivious to what the downstairs owner faces and why the carpet was still installed in the unit in the first place. It's guaranteed that they will be casual about the covenants and the noise requirements.

Shut this category of owners down early and often when it comes to hard surface flooring.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I feel I need to repeat that after 7 two-years terms on our ca. 2000 high rise we only have had tow noise complaints about allegedly poor flooring. Both were tested, eight failed. we've had NO complaints in the past 10 years, I'd say. Our ARC requirements are very strict and our ARC committee diligent.

Since contractors have to jump through many hoops to install these hard surfaces, they are the ones who attest to the materials being the right kinds.

As others say, Tony, get the board to vote. Get a contractor to write that the materials, underlayment, etc. is correct. You dod have a form form Owners & their contractors fill out, right Tony?

In some materials nowadays, the underlayment is attached to the flooring and the ICC rating is stamped on it. Our CC&Rs permit the ARC to hire a specialist to reassure it that the flooring or other topics) comply with our documents and state laws. The Owners is charged. This rarely is needed, however.

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